Talk:Bankstown Bunker/Archive 2

Bankstown Bunker
Adam, my name is Mark and I have been researching bunkers in bankstown and sydney area for past 5 years. I dont mind having a page for the bankstown bunker, however if you are going to keep your references to the bankstown bunker, There are some issues.

1) Bankstown bunker is 2 levels not 3, I have myself been in there and have several disgrams of the bunker and it is 2. 2) It was never a "bomb shelter" it can withstand an almost direct hit from a 300lbs bomb, but it was a operations building not a bomb/air raid shelter. 3) it wasnt "found" by a local newspaper, the local newspaper was aloud to enter the bunker by no 2 stores depot (regents park). Many locals who were kids/teens in the 1960s/1970s visited the bunker, so it wasnt really unknown.

in reference to the entrance i will not disclose that in a public forum, we had access up until about 3 months ago but need to re-establish access. I can take you in if you wish? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.107.133.4 (talk) 05:10, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeh, a look inside the bunker would be nice, also about the levels, I have also heard that there is another level that access has been partially buried could that be the third underground level. Also, I think as time passes a lot of the younger generation and new people moving into the area probably don't know about the bunker and a lot of the older ones from around that time have passes away, even though some are still with us. I was simply reporting on the information provided in the references, I have used two to three different ones. One a book and the others websites that are listed in the articles, its just so that if some one does read about it then check the refs the info matches, also I have to provided refs when I include content so that what I add does not get removed. Yes but a quick look would be good. Also is it true that there was a tunnel from Black Charlies hill to Bankstown Airport. Okay signing out now, I will return to my computor later on--. Cheers. Adam.J.W.C. 05:23, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay that's cool, but for the ligitimacy it is classified as a bunker of "semi-underground" construction, the reason why it is often called a "bomb shelter" etc is because of the lack of research surrounding the bunkers, many of the older folk in the area have reffered to it as an "air raid" shelter but it is anything but. So if you can reffer to it as a "operations bunker" as from what I understand. There was no public underground air raid shelters in the Bankstown area. The third level is only a rumour and nothing else, there is no evidence of a "third" level (reference RAAF archives Canberra and Bankstown city library local studies collection, item "bankstown bunker diagram" and NAA document 171/26/31 PART 1). Once again this is misinformation spread due to lack of research. HOWEVER there is a possibility of a third level, but ACCORDING TO OFFICIAL RECORDS IT DOES NOT EXIST.

That ties into my next point, does a tunnel exist? Yes it does, do I have evidence yes? yes very good evidence.. I have spoken to 3 people who worked in the bunker who can confirm the existance of a tunnel, I also have a an official drawning of the bunker from 1942 (available from RAAF archives Canberra) with a door drawn that with a description "Door under interception officers dias?" Now this door, all the people who worked there that I have spoken to remember it without pretexting them. So what of this door? Funnily enough it's sealled off by bricks that are of newer make that of the others in the bunker and the biggest give away, a bare peice of concrete hang, that exists just above where the entrance to the door is said to be, we dug behind this wall and what did we find? earth that had been moved in from elsewhere, bricks, clay and other fill completely different to what surrounds the rest of the bunker, when we dug done far enough, we also found an inner wall (much like one you would find in a building) funny that. And it is not a local soil, clay, it is completely different from anything found on site, it even included top soil. It is on the bottom floor on the south eastern wall (facing Revesby). Now think about this, it couldnt have been pushed there through the entrances known to me, because they are all on the floor above, so could it be another entrance? and why would they want to seal it? why isnt what's behind this door written on the map? It's not heading in the direction of Bankstown airport?

Beleive me, there are a shitload of bunkers in Bankstown, ever heard of Old Kent road? or the chullora railway bunkers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adam.J.W.C. (talk • contribs) 11:20, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I haven't acually heard of the Old Kent Road, but I did read something about the Chullora railway Bunker. I read something along the lines of having to enter state rail property and entering the bunker via a drainway, canal or some sort of pipe to get in. I also read some rumors about equipment still inside. Possibly rifles, amo maps and what not. Also with the bankstown bunker article I have divided it up into sections to make it easier to read. Added a photo which is nothing really special. A few images inside the bunker would be nice, like how it used to look inside and out back then and how it compares today. Also I transfered this conversation to the article talk page becuase others may find this interesting. If You want you can leave future comments there and I will respond if I am at my computer. Cheers            Adam.J.W.C.


 * Also I changed a few of the things back to your version. If you like change a few other things as you hade them before as well. With the article I am happy with the way that it has been set out with the sections, as in History, Inside the bunker, location, Other bunkers in bankstown, and trivia. I may look into other bunkers as well if I can find the info somewhere. . Cheers            Adam.J.W.C. 03:46, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Your questions about the Bankstown Bunker
Can anyone confirm if there is in fact a bunker/structure under Black Charlies Hill or are people referring to the Taylor St bunker? Does anyone know where the so called 'escape tunnel' visible in the photos goes to (even though it has been caved in and/or backfilled). Also on 'Old Kent Road' is there any further info? I could not find any into anywhere on the internet to support the existance of this one & a drive around didn't look to promising either aside from an odd park under the power lines with no visible sign of an underground structure. Sorry if this is not the appropriate place to ask such questions but I'm new to this and don't know how to contact the authors directly. Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.32.62 (talk) 10:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Black Charlie's hill is more than just the park in simmit avenue, black charlies hill covers the entire area including the corner of Marion and Edgar streets. So when we refer to the bunker on black Charlie's hill, we are referring to the bunker on the corner of marion and edgar st condell park. If you go to the site you will see a block of town houses. In between these townhouses is a small park, Taylor st also runs in this park from its rear. If you ever go to the park you will see an artificial hill that looks a bit out of place, this is where the bunker has been buried. There is a way to get in and it involves crawling through and air vent that is about fifty centimeters in diameter. I don't actually know where the hole is. Also if you ever go to the site and see a local you can ask them if this is where the bunker is and they will confirm but some may not wish to tell you.

Also about the escape tunnel, there are no records of this, but when I was a kid lots of different people, mainly old people, from the area said that there was a tunnel from black charlies hill to bankstown airport. If you want to find out more go to the Chullora article and read the section about about the chullora bunker and manufacturing plant, there is also some information suggestion that there could still be weapons under the railway workshop, but this cannot be confirmed.

This is not true, there were two escape tunnels within the bunker, references to the bunker can be found in a report completed by the nsw fire brigade on the bunker when it was completed, but not yet open, also several of the design plans for the bunker include details of the escape tunnels220.237.17.99 04:21, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

The old kent road bunker, well I did not add this. This was added by a contributor who studies hidden bunkers around Sydney. I am not quite sure where he got his information from, but you may find something in the NATIONAL ARCHIVE OF AUSTRALIA WEBSITE. Also if you go to that website and do a record search. I recomend that you type in Stacey st Bankstown as the key words and for the date type in 1940-1950 and you will find some interesting info about the Australiam army and airforce renting houses in that street for Australian soldiers and members of some kind of search lite brigade during WWII. So I am just assuming that if this was happening in Stacey st then there could be some kind of bunker in old kent road which is just off stacey st. Still this does not prove any thing. If you check out the street again go to one of the public parks in that street, its the first park in the street if you have just turnt of stacey st. Have a look at one of the artificial rock formations. It looks a bit like an artificial waterfall that has been built for drainage. If you take a closer look at this you will find that it looks like what could have been a former entrance to something, like a tunnel or what ever, and the back street that leads to it could have been the former driveway but I am just guessing, but still check it out. The park is not actually in Old Kent rd but the street north of old kent road. Greenacre rd I think its called but the address could have been Old kent Rd due to the fact that the road that lead to it began in old kent road. But then again I could be wrong but still might be worth having a look at.

I also plan on checking out the Chullora bunker if i get a chance, but I think this has been sealed as well. Cheers_Ad@m.J.W.C. 11:46, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

The problem with alot of the bunkers in sydney and australia is much of the information available on these bunkers wont be available on national archives of australia, due to the fact that some were built and operated by the americans, also under national security policies, not all documentation relating to wartime infrastructure has been catalogued with the national archives of australia,220.237.17.99 04:21, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

bankstown bunker intro
''the specially constructed bunker became a control point and headquarters of general Douglas MacArthur. Although the bunker was actively used, the General never came to Bankstown.[2]''
 * This information was provided by the Bankstown Council, if it is deemed to be inaccurate I will remove it.

it would be interesting to see what their sources are —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.237.17.99 (talk) 06:22, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

This bunker was never used as a central control point or headquarters of general douglas macarthur, it has been SPECULATED that he used the bunker as headquarters during the shift of SWPA headquarters from Mebourne to Brisbane in 1942, but that cannot be verified at the moment, from official records he only had headquarters in Melbourne and Brisbane (amp building). The source that has been cited is an out-of-date newspaper article written prior to the 30yr closure period being lifted on wartime records for 1942. Another point is that according to official documentation, the bunker was built and utilised only by the RAAF rather than the whole of the allied defence forces and/or the swpa and since general macarthur was head of the swpa and not the raaf, he would have not had his headquarters there.

''The Bankstown Bunker was Australia's main air defense headquarters during WWII (1945 ONWARDS). It was the heart of the Australian defence network, where, in co-operation with the highest officers of Navy and Army, Australian bombers and fighters were controlled in defence and attack against the enemy from this location.''

It was only the main air defence headquarters from Jan 1945 onwards, this was when the bunker was incorporated as the "air defence headquarters 220.237.17.99 04:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The article does mention the commencement date as being 1945 and the above passage should probably make mention of this in brackets after the During WWII. Cheers_Ad@m.J.W.C. 06:14, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

bunker photo
The photo of the bunker labelled "the bunker in 1945" is actually one of the many photos taken by John Englisch and company during their visit to the bunker in 1971 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.237.17.99 (talk) 04:44, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I will fix the caption when i get a chance. I actually got permission from peter dunn to use the pics. Cheers_Ad@m.J.W.C. 05:50, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not Peter Dunn you should be seeking permission from, its John Englisch at Torch Publishing220.237.17.99 (talk) 01:11, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

2nd two photos
The second two photos were taken by me (Victor Zdanowicz-Muchlado).

They are both taken from http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/raaf/1fshq.htm. The author of this site was given permission to use the images AND has credited me.

Vic —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.222.37.21 (talk) 23:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Fantasic, I love what the caveclan have done with the bunker, you know graffiti all over the walls, etc.. 220.237.17.99 (talk) 10:31, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hello, I think thats something they used to do but have now stopped, as l was told. Cheers_Ad@m.J.W.C. (talk) 13:32, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of whether they have stopped or not, the damage has been done 220.237.17.99 (talk) 01:12, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Most of the serious graffiti dates back to before the Cave Clan. Anyway, can you please credit my photo?
 * I don't think I saw you name in Peter Dunn's website regarding the photo's, I also notice you were adding your name to many photos on Wikicommons. Show me where you name is in P-Dunn's website, if there you photos then how did you get inside to take them. I know how to get in lets see if you know. I could also email Peter Dunn who I have been in touch with in the past and ask him about who took them. Cheers_Ad@m.J.W.C. (talk) 04:31, 3 January 2008 (UTC)