Talk:Banquo

Banker?
In Dorothy Dunnett's novel King Hereafter Lulach (who represents the voice of confused history) refers to Abbot Crinan as banqueris, in reference to his tax-collecting and coining. This is presumably meant to suggest Banquo. While I'm not sold on the idea of Crinan as Banquo, is there any evidence for the theory that it was a title, meaning "banker", rather than a name? Daibhid C 00:24, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't know anything about Dunnett's novel or the theory to which you're refering, but the name sounds really close to the French for banker (banquier). Maybe it's a dual reference to his profession and to Banquo? Sorry to speculate on a text with which I'm not familiar :). Ştefan 07:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I haven't found any source that makes this connection. Wrad (talk) 00:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

ambiguous statement in Source para
In the Chronicles, Banquo is an accomplice in Macbeth's murder. I don't have Holinshed to hand, but does this mean "murder of King Duncan", or "the murder of Macbeth" (which is what it looks like as written), or should it be "murders" rather than "murder", if Banquo participated in more than one of the murders committed by Macbeth? Inquiring minds - and GA reviewers, quite likely - would like to know. --GuillaumeTell (talk) 22:15, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah. Will fix. Wrad (talk) 00:05, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

GA Fail
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria


 * 1) Is it reasonably well written?
 * A. Prose quality:
 * B. MoS compliance:
 * 1) Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
 * A. References to sources:
 * B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
 * C. No original research:
 * 1) Is it broad in its coverage?
 * A. Major aspects:
 * B. Focused:
 * 1) Is it neutral?
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * Pass or Fail:

Again, this article does a good job of approaching the major aspects of the character. I believe with a couple of scholarly texts, it can really shine. Good luck with it, and please let me know if you'd like to have me copyedit the piece once it's got more meat on its bones. – Scartol  •  Tok  22:08, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Regarding the role section, one paragraph is fine. Banquo's role as a ghost has no speaking parts and no real stage directions other than just to be there. Two simple sentences are enough to state that he appears as a ghost. I don't agree with combining analysis with that section, either. It just makes things too messy. As for famous actors who have played the role, I haven't found any good sources talking about them. Aside from a pointless list, I haven't found anything that would add any real content in that area. The Source section, I feel, covers things very well. I feel that way because sources I look at are all starting to repeat themselves on the subject. You give suggestions on analysis which I really can't add unless they are sourced. Are these things you have actually read about or are they your own original research? I've read just about every critical essay I could find on Banquo, and then some. People just don't talk about him as much as you seem to think. Wrad (talk) 22:28, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I haven't done the research you have on the subject, so I don't know for sure that the depth I've mentioned exists. However, I can't imagine that a play as important and thoroughly-studied as Macbeth doesn't have any more detailed analysis of one of its main characters. (Though of course it's possible.)
 * How about this: I'll go to the library tonight and see what I can find in those four sources I mentioned. Meantime, how about we ask for a second opinion? I believe you've worked with her in the past, and I expect we both value her erudition. Sound fair? –  Scartol  •  Tok  23:38, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure. That's more than fair and I'm surprised you're willing to do so much. To be honest, I was very surprised at how little there was about this guy. He just hasn't drawn much attention. He doesn't stand out to feminists, gender critics, or just about anyone. If you can find more on him, just let me know. Wrad (talk) 23:43, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Just back from the library. Found three books with relevant info. Do you want me to ask Awad for a second opinion, or shall we just work to add info and then I'll do a copyedit and then we'll re-submit it? (I can start working on it tomorrow.) Lemme know. – Scartol  •  Tok  01:34, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Do these books really say anything new? If they do, go ahead and add them. Wrad (talk) 01:42, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've added a variety of details from the books I found. There is additional info in Macbeth: Texts and Contexts, about the historical sources and changes made by Shakespeare; I would recommend that it be added to the "Source" section. (I don't have time or background to do it.) If you want another copyedit before you re-submit it for GA, lemme know. I reiterate my desire to see the "Role" section split into two paragraphs (one on Banquo in real life and one on the ghost), as well as a rearrangement of some of the Analysis info. Good luck! – Scartol  •  Tok  19:13, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently my library doesn't have this book. Wrad (talk) 02:52, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I found another book to help the section with. Scartol has finished a copy-edit, so I think we're ready for another GA nom. Wrad (talk) 16:50, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Second GAC review
This is an excellent article little article. As far as the criteria goes, it's well written, factually accurate, broad enough in its coverage, definitely neutral and stable, and both of the images are correctly tagged and from the commons. I have a couple suggestions, but this is surely ready for GA-class:


 * However, in Chronicles Banquo is an accomplice to Macbeth: needs a comma, but perhaps it would be less awkward if it were reworded to say, "In Chronicles, however, Banquo..."?
 * fixed. Wrad (talk) 20:42, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Is it "Holinshed's Chronicles" ("Source" section) or "Holinshed's Chronicles" (lead)?
 * Books I've read seem to have the second version. Wrad (talk) 20:41, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * he has fewer lines than the relatively insignificant Ross: who is Ross? Well, I mean, I know, but a little context may help others who are less versed.
 * Fixed. Wrad (talk) 20:41, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Banquo warns him that wickedness often offers men a small hopeful truth...: just a personal quirk, but "often offers" is strangely repetitive.
 * Fixed. Wrad (talk) 20:41, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Banquo argues that evil often offers gifts which lead only to betrayal and destruction: ditto.
 * Fixed. Wrad (talk) 20:41, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * There are inconsistencies in how the acts and scenes are referred to. Is it "Act Three, Scene Four", "Act II" and "Act III, Scene 1." (ref 7), or "Act two, scene one"?
 * Fixed. Wrad (talk) 20:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Ref 7 is the only one I see that cites the play for a quote, but there are other quotes which do not have citations: "There's husbandry in heaven, / Their candles are all out", "Hold, take my sword ... Take thee that too" etc. I definitely advocate for refs from the source.
 * fixed. Wrad (talk) 20:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * In "Source", an em dash is used, but en dashes are used in "Ghost scenes"; either or, not both.
 * Several of the refs use a regular dash instead of an en dash for page ranges.
 * I know I've done this before, but I'm having trouble telling the difference this time... How do I fix this? Wrad (talk) 21:01, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I won't let a few dashes keep the article away from GA-class; it's such a silly, picky thing, but rather than going back and manually replacing all page range dashes with the proper en dash, you could save yourself the eyestrain and ask Brighterorange to run his dashbot for you. :) María ( habla con migo ) 21:38, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Other than those (mostly) minor things, this is quite good. Just to make it "official", however, I'll put the nomination on hold. Let me know when everything has been taken care of and I'll happily pass the article. María ( habla con migo ) 18:28, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Great, this now passes with flying colors. Great job! María ( habla  con migo ) 13:15, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Problems
I thought it was pretty clear that Banquo is an unhistorical character (unlike some characters in Macbeth) and the Stewarts are of Breton ancestry see e.g. Flaad. Can somebody give me a source for 9 generations separating Banquo and King James? 9 generations back from James only takes us back to Walter Stewart (who married Marjorie Bruce, Robert's daughter) even in Shakespeare's day they would have known that. This may be confusion with the number of kings who appear in the vision. Is there a source that Banquo was thane of Lochaber (real or fictional)? With these problems, dare I say it, does the article meet GA criteria? PatGallacher (talk) 13:03, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you mean. The article states that whether Banquo actually existed is in question. Wrad (talk) 22:05, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

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