Talk:Banya (sauna)

Recent Edits
Ive done recent edits to try and improve the historical page and format the article with a better outline to make it easier to edit. I also added some pictures. I may add a section on New York City Banyas or just create a new linked page. Please do not make edits that include statements that cannot be supported by footnote. I apologize for removing the "Aaland has said" this and that language because his history of the russian banya website is indespensible, but it unnecessary to identify the speaker here when he is being footnoted. As for below, the parilka is described accurately, even in the dry room, steam is created by throwing water on the oven stones. It is not bone dry, but named to distinguish it from the wet or Turkish bath which is filled with steam. - smarticvs —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smarticvs (talk • contribs) 12:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Old talk

 * "In the steam room (called parilka, парилка) there is a wood stove, where the heat comes from. Beside the stove stands a bucket of water that is poured over the heated stones of the stove. Usually across the stove are wooden benches. The banya is less hot than the Finnish sauna, but what it lacks in temperature is compensated by pouring more water over the stones of the stove, creating air moisture."

Is this correct? At the banya I go to in Seattle, Banya 5, the "parilka" is the hot dry room that reaches around 200-220&deg;F, while there's a separate steam room. &mdash;Ashley Y 08:32, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Looking at the link on the main page, I can guarantee you that the authenticity of this banya is suspect. Just like Chinese food in North America, it is somewhat similar to the real thing, but would not be considered "authentic" by most Russians. I've been to several Banyas in Russia, most notably in the Baikal area of Siberia, and noticed the following similarities: Waynovich, June 2 2006

In most Russian banyas it is customary to have three rooms, the steam room, the washing room, and a entrance room. The entrance room customarily has pegs to hang clothing upon. The washing room has a tap of very hot water which is heated in the stove of the steam chamber. A vessel or tap for cold water is usually located here for mixing the water to accomodate a comfortable washing temperature. The heater is usually composed of three compartments, with a fire box that is fed from the entrance room. Sitting atop this is the rock chamber, which usually has a small hole to throw the water into; the stovepipe continues up through the rock chamber and through the water tank, which is the top-most section of the stove. A tap connects the water tank to the washing room (predbanik)to supply the hot water for washing. The top of the water tank is usually closed to prevent vapour from infiltrating the banya, and water to be thrown on the rocks should be taken from the tank as this will cause superior steam than if cold water were used. If an electric heater is used, the firebox is omited. Most Russians will identify the wood burning stove as a better beanya heater, and studies haev shown that negative ions are produced from wood fired heaters, whilst electic heaters produce positive ions. The steam chamber usually is entered when the stove is hot, but has not yet been splashed with water. Getting a good sweat on before using water is prefered to using steam right away, as the sweat is thought to protect and condition the skin to the steam. Chapkas, felt hats, are used to protect the hair, and a pajubnik, or ass-pad is used to sit upon as the hot dry wood can be very uncomfrotable for bare skin. The chapka also allows the user to tolerate higher temperatures without feeling lightheaded or faint. Chapkas, pajubniks and a felt mitt are commonly sold in sets at shops in Russia, along with aromatherapy scents specially made for inclusion into the steam water. After the first good sweat is induced, it is customary to cool off in the breeze outdoors, or splash with cold water or in a lake or river. The banya is then entered again, and steam is caused by throwing small amounts of water upon the rocks in the heater. It is desirebale to throw small enough amounts on rocks that are sufficiently hot to ensure that steam is fine and water evaporates quickly; otherwise steam will be too cool and have a clammy "feel". The steam should feel like a wave of heat and not be overly moist, this is due to the high temperature of the rocks and the quick evaporation causing very fine particles of vapour that are highly dispersed. Waving the venik will also cause a wave of convective heat to be felt, the reverse of a wind-chill effect, and a common joke of younger banya goers it to gently blow on the person next to them, producing a dry spot of skin that rapidly feels the heat of the surrounding air. The second sweat is commonly the first time venik would be used, but it is not uncommon to wait until the third session. After each sweat, cooling off is repeated, and patrons may take this break to drink beer, tea or other beverages, play games or relax in good company in an antechamber to the steam room. A black banya is much more rudimentary, and is generally considered to be less desirable than the "white" banya described above.

Commercial banyas often have only a steam room, or a steam rooma nd a dry room depending on local custom, or the money the owner of the banya was willing to spend. It is rummored that certain nightclubs in Moscow and St Petersberg have a Banya in them. Russian banyas are generally more of a fun place than Finnish saunas, mostly do to the social-cutlure of the Russian people, who are viewed by-and-large as more expressive than the rather dour Finns.

Waynovich, Calgaristahn

Banya is NOT the same as sauna!
Banya uses steam, while sauna uses "dry" heat. Big difference! The word "sauna" needs to be removed from the title of this article. 75.3.65.63 16:19, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * They are variations of the same theme (and of the same origins) with small variations and national traditions. "Sauna" uses steam also, of course, it would be an oven without it, the degree is up to the user and can be adjusted on -the-fly. The construction, stove, benches, birch "bushes" etc are identical. Sauna also has the same variants that are descripted here as "white" and "black" (savusauna) "Banyas". I'll change the article accordingly 213.243.182.3 21:13, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't understand where this information is coming from or what happened to the "updating". It is as you say.  I live in Finland (Etela Karjala).  The sauna in Finland sounds identical in every respect to the Russian Banja.  Some saunas are big places with pools etc, some are modest affairs.  The process is identical:  A fire is made under rocks (preferably heat retentive ones), the temp of the room goes up and water is poured on the coals from time to time to make steam.  There are saunas (the standard ones in blocks of flats etc) where the heat is elactrically produced, there are the traditional wood fired ovens, and then there are "smoke" saunas, where the fire is not vented and the room is left until the fire has died completely.  There are also outdoor saunas whcih work by erecting a smallish tent around the fire and rocks, probably after the fire is out, again like a smoke sauna.  Every detail is identical. But there ARE Russian baths and these ARE very different to saunas.  There's one in Paddington in North London!  They're made up of three or more rooms linking to each other in series: dry hot rooms of increasing temeprature, a steam room (where you can't see the opposite wall and hardly another sould that's in there, and a cold plunge pool.  LookingGlass (talk) 18:44, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

A history of the Russian Banya is probably in order -- origins -- construction. I am thinkning either stone or mud brick. The 'pitch' is the central aspect of teh traditional Russian village home. They were very large -- large enough to sleep on top of in the winter. The Russian Banya's I've visited on my adventures in Russian are constructed like small log cabins. One enters and disrobes. Being naked in Russia in a Banya is normalno "Normal". The modern bahya stoves "Pitches" are made of iron. The have stones on top of them which get very hot -- the stove itself becomes very very hot. A bucket or source of cold water is poured on the stones with a dipper. Breathing deeply, and taking turns hitting each other all over the body with wither birch branches with leaves, or soft green pine brances is ritualized. In tha banya one or a stack of benches are constructed where bathers sit or lay. Bathers also wear traditional felt hats to hold the heat in their body. I have done this quite a few times -- and I felt like a cake in an over! However, the heat subsides with exits and dashes to jump in a cold lake, pond, etc... or to exit and pour buckets of cold water. The modern ovens/stoves in the villages are constructed of iron.

I think that most veteran bania goers will state that the water which is tossed upon the rocks should be hot, as cold water takes too much energy to raise it to steam. This cooling effect may make some banyas seem clammy, which is not at all the intended effect.

Origins ?
Did russians inherit the banya from finno-ugric people ? What are the origins of banya ? It indeed is very similar to finnish sauna and there are lot of finno-ugrians in Russia whom all have saunas/banyas.


 * and how come these comments aren't getting signed? I think the whole historical aspect of the article and in particular its relationship with the Finnish sauna needs a complete rewrite.  It seems to be almost entirely inaccurate.  LookingGlass (talk) 18:47, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

---

What came first? Egg? Chicken? Why can't both simply be taken as national achievements? Finnish Sauna and Russian Banya are similar concepts but are different things. In Finland sauna seems to be a central ingredient of finnish culture and in Russia banya seems to be an important thing to people in some areas of northern Russia. Many cultures have developed bathing cultures and I could not find any sources proving who was first ...etc. There are finno-ugric people spread all over the russian territory and certainly there must (and) have been cultural influences in every direction. I don't know how e.g. the "Mari" call their equivalent but it will be certainly something that reminds of something like the two baths mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.190.104.213 (talk) 01:12, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

While its entirely possible that they may have originally developed separately, the russian banya has almost certainly been affected by the finnish sauna tradition, seeing as how banyas appeared much later on in history atleast in written documents. Finnish sauna, although not in its current form, has been around for more than 2000 years. At the time when slavs expanded into what is today northwestern russia it was populated, albeit sparsely, by different finnic peoples so there must have had been some cultural exchange. -Anon, 2009. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.249.92.156 (talk) 12:49, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Padjopniks
That's a jokingly used swear word. It's something like under-the-ass-niks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.91.4.155 (talk) 16:21, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Childish and unencyclopaedic language
"may aid the body in protecting against these microscopic invaders. Finally, endorphins, the feel-good chemicals in the brain, are released due to the increase in cardiovascular activity." Microscopic invaders? Is there really any need for baby-talk? As for the childish explanation of "endorphins", I think it would be more appropriate just to link the word "endorphins" to its own article, which provides a better explanation than "feel-good chemicals". Not that it matters - I see a distinct lack of sources in the section on supposed health benefits anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.242.207 (talk) 05:58, 5 May 2010 (UTC)


 * It's probably a bad translation from the original Russian. Kortoso (talk) 20:49, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Ancient Romans had a cult of bathhouse.
Why the (poorly translated) Roman history? There's no indication that the bath culture of the Romans was the source of the Russian banya. Kortoso (talk) 20:52, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Thermal bathing in world cultures
Does anyone else see a need for an article that addresses all of these subjects in an easier to find location? Kortoso (talk) 20:56, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

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Basically, banya is a Russian name for sauna
This article seems to construct the full idea and meaning of sauna without actually saying it is a sauna. However, banya is a Russian name for traditional northern European sauna, and not another concept or another institution. It is a branch of a tree of closely related saunas of Northern Europe, a Russian specimen of sauna proper in the full meaning of the word. Especially the most traditional saunas of different Northern European countries are virtually indistinguishable from each other. As the English "sauna" is a loan from Finnish, it should be also noted that any Finnish person would instantly recognize traditional banya as a traditional sauna, and more modern banya as a more modern sauna. There are more differences between Russian individual saunas than between the sauna populations of Russia and countries like Sweden, Finland, Estonia or Latvia. So it should be told in this article already that banya is a Russian sauna, or a Russian name for a sauna. Different countries and areas of course have slightly different cultural traits in their sauna-cultures, and those traits are the subject of this article. Concept of sauna however should not be explained here another time, because it is told already in the article "sauna". It should be made clear that all these proper saunas are closely related to each other Tuohirulla puhu 16:23, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

No word about sexes?
I was hoping to find something about the customs concerning mixed banyas etc. Nothing at all to be found here... - --31.173.241.48 (talk) 04:33, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Added at least something. Yourlocallordandsavior (talk) 06:17, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

"Dry steam"
This expression makes no sense. Steam is inherently wet. It's used in reference to Finnish saunas, but it's not used anywhere at Sauna. What is it supposed to mean? Hairy Dude (talk) 16:21, 18 March 2018 (UTC)