Talk:Baptist Health (Jacksonville)

Copyright problem removed
One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://community.e-baptisthealth.com/wtg/about/index.html http://community.e-baptisthealth.com/bmc/south/index.html http://community.e-baptisthealth.com/bmc/beaches/history.html and http://wchjax.com/welcome/index.jsp. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a license compatible with GFDL. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 21:16, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Request for collaboration
I just started working with Baptist Health to improve the quality of information on the article. I know the company's had some violations of policy, so I want to ensure that any forthcoming updates are well-vetted by the community. are you available to collaborate? I'd value your input especially since you've been so involved in this article in the past.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 02:47, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I think it's a very bad idea for people to be paid to edit a Wikipedia article on behalf of the subject of the article. I do not wish to participate.  Deli nk (talk) 12:37, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Introduction
Hi. I'm currently working with Baptist Health about making general improvements to the article compliant to WP: COI. The overall content of the article is OK but needs reorganization and better references.

A list of items I see on the current article:


 * Factual errors about the health system
 * Lack of historical documentation about the organization
 * Lack of information in the Hospitals section
 * Expansion of the Foundation section

Below are a few changes to start the improvement process for the article. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm open to collaborating.--Chefmikesf (talk) 22:44, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

#1


 * Location: Short description


 * Current Content:


 * Proposed Content:


 * Reason: There are many different organizations with the title “Baptist Health” in the USA. The intent of the content is to provide clarity between the most similar named organizations.


 * Reference:


 * ✅ GregorB (talk) 23:52, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks GregorB--Chefmikesf (talk) 00:33, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

#2


 * Location: Lead paragraph


 * Current content:

Baptist Health, based in Jacksonville, Florida, is a network of five hospitals, affiliated with 45 primary care offices located throughout Northeast Florida and Southeast Georgia.


 * Proposed Content:

Baptist Health, based in Jacksonville, Florida, is a network of five hospitals, affiliated with over 50 primary care offices located throughout Northeast Florida and Southeast Georgia.


 * Reason: Updating the number of locations


 * Here it is not immediately obvious how "over 50" is derived from the source. Perhaps https://www.baptistjax.com/locations could be used? GregorB (talk) 09:05, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * GregorB That makes sense. Here is the reference set up in code. --Chefmikesf (talk) 18:23, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


 * ✅ GregorB (talk) 20:16, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

#3


 * Location: Infobox


 * Current content:Care System-- Hospital


 * Proposed Content: Care System-- Health System


 * Reason: The organization contains hospitals, urgent care locations, imaging centers, and primary care facilities.


 * ✅ Even taking into consideration these are primary sources, it is reasonably clear that Baptist Health constitutes a health system and cannot properly be described as a "hospital". GregorB (talk) 20:21, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

#4


 * Location: Infobox

Current content: Beds-- 1101


 * Proposed Content: Beds-- 1168 --Chefmikesf (talk) 18:24, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Reason: Update the number of beds


 * How is the 1168 figure derived? Actually, when I sum up the numbers from the source, I get 1302. GregorB (talk) 11:14, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I excluded Heart Hospital from the math because at the bottom of Baptist Medical Center Jacksonville the * states: *Statistics include Heart Hospital Is this enough information?--Chefmikesf (talk) 17:42, 10 December 2019 (UTC)


 * ✅ Got it, thanks! GregorB (talk) 18:57, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

#5


 * Location: Baptist Medical Center Jacksonville


 * Current content: They also have the following regional referral centers: Jacksonville Orthopedic Institute and Baptist Cancer Institute.


 * Proposed Content: They also have the following regional referral centers: Jacksonville Orthopedic Institute and Baptist MD Anderson Cancer Center.


 * Reason: Jacksonville Orthopedic Institute link is dead. Baptist Cancer Institute is part of Baptist Health South Florida. This is a separate organization. It does not belong on the article. Baptist Health’ other regional referral center is Baptist MD Anderson Cancer Center. Chefmikesf (talk) 20:48, 14 November 2019 (UTC)


 * ✅ GregorB (talk) 19:00, 11 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi Eyer, Georgian, and Mgreason! I noticed you are all active members of WP:FLORIDA. Would anyone be interested to collaborate on this article? Thanks in advance.--Chefmikesf (talk) 23:27, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Hi GregorB I reached out to editors who have contributed to this article but it looks like everyone is inactive. Would you be open to help with the factual updates above? --Chefmikesf (talk) 20:54, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Baptist Health Article Expansion
GregorB and I have collaborated on some fact-based changes to the article, but it still needs work. The overall content of the article needs reorganization and better references. I completed a few sections of the article in this sandbox! I am still working on the content and references for the rest of the article. Here is what I think needs improvement, but if anyone has any suggestions or concerns, I'm happy to collaborate on changes to this article.


 * The current article contains factual errors about the health system
 * The current article lacks historical documentation about the organization
 * The Hospitals section lacks key information about each hospital

I completed a few sections of the article in this sandbox! I am still working on the content and references for parts of the article. I found the article required expansion on some of the sections, like the history and hospitals, as well as restructuring to comply with Wikipedia's guidelines.

To summarize my proposed changes by section:


 * Infobox - I added a new Infobox template from the hospitals infobox template. The current template misspells "organization". The new Infobox includes all the existing content and some updates with references.


 * Lead - I added context to the lead paragraph in order to ensure that the content supports the rest of the article.


 * History – The current History section only summarizes the opening of the original hospital. Baptist Health has 60 years+ years of history. The three sections in my sandbox summarize the top historical milestones with verifiable secondary sources.


 * Hospitals- The current Hospitals section is OK, but needs some structural updates, copyedits, and some content additions with secondary sources provided.

If anyone has the time, could you take a look to check my work for accuracy and compliance with Wikipedia guidelines? I'm happy to approach this section by section and feedback you have will be greatly appreciated!--Chefmikesf (talk) 18:53, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi GregorB It looks like everyone else who contributed to the article is still inactive. What are your thoughts on the content, references, and concepts I laid out above?--Chefmikesf (talk) 22:47, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello. I've taken a cursory look and these changes look fine to me. I'm not sure about my time resources, though. Is there a way to integrate these into the article in several stages, perhaps? GregorB (talk) 15:03, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * HelloGregorB I'm open to an iterative approach. The article has three items that stand out to me and are straight forward updates. Let me know what you think. Thanks!--Chefmikesf (talk) 23:17, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

1. There is an error with the code in the Infobox. (see the word "organization") I would suggest copy+paste the new Infobox created in my sandbox with the correct code, references, and spelling.

2. The proposed lead paragraph does not subtract from the current lead, only adds some missing facts. I think that is a natural addition to the article.

3. The current history is nonexistent. What are your thoughts on reviewing the references and adding the history section?


 * Sounds good to me. Let's try to clear these items one by one then. I'll check #1 right away. GregorB (talk) 09:21, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Do we have a source for Non-profit? Also, I get a warning for Healthcare, maybe it's just caps. GregorB (talk) 09:31, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello GregorB,


 * Here is a source for the Non-profit
 * As for the warning on the Healthcare, is the warning from the references? Or do we need to take a look at the content "Health Systems"?
 * Please advise--Chefmikesf (talk) 16:08, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * When previewing the sandbox, I get:
 * Warning: Page using Template:Infobox hospital with unknown parameter "Healthcare" (this message is shown only in preview).
 * I get an access denied message by the jacksonville.com source (Please Note: We are temporarily unavailable to users from certain countries while we upgrade our site to implement new methods for data processing as required by applicable laws.). I assume this is a some sort of GDPR wall. Since I presume many readers might experience the same, could you add a supporting quote param to the cite template in question? GregorB (talk) 16:01, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi GregorB The Healthcare error came from the capitalization of the C. I have updated it in my sandbox.

Also here is a new references for the Nonprofit. Can you take another look?


 * Done, infobox copied from the sandbox as-is, although you may want to check the diff since it appears some bits (logo, source for the beds param) have been lost. No problem, I can amend it from the sandbox if necessary. GregorB (talk) 15:31, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for improving the Infobox within the article GregorB. What are your thoughts on working on the history section next?--Chefmikesf (talk) 23:16, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm all for it. :) It's a big section with a lot of sources, so it may take some time to review it. I'll begin tomorrow at the latest. GregorB (talk) 13:34, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Right on GregorB, Thanks!--Chefmikesf (talk) 03:21, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * GregorB I’d also like to propose adding Legrandphoto--040516.jpg to the Baptist Medical Center South section and Legrandphoto--1902.jpg to the Baptist Beaches section. Are there any objections to me adding the images directly?--Chefmikesf (talk) 23:59, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
 * , just insert them in the sandbox version of the article (I'd insert them into the article right away but I'm a bit unsure about the best layout) and I'll propagate the changes from there.
 * Sorry for the delay BTW, I've been on vacation and away from wiki so I'm not quite finished with the History section yet, but thus far it looks very good to me. GregorB (talk) 23:00, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
 * , I've reviewed the History section and it's very good, apart from a couple of minor issues. However, there is a potential issue with sourcing. When I tried to insert the section text, I received the following warning:
 * Warning: An automated filter has identified this edit as introducing references to a predatory open access journal or publisher. If you are confident that you want to cite this source anyway, please click 'Publish changes' again. Note that citations to predatory journals are routinely removed.
 * So, there are some sources from the Predatory open access source list inside, and you may want to review them.
 * Minor issues:
 * 'equipment that was considered state-of-the-art at the time.”' - a stray quotation mark in the end, I suppose - I don't think there is a quote in this sentence.
 * Incomplete sources such as "Woman's Board". The Florida Times-Union. 1976 - it is a daily newspaper, so this article might prove hard to find without a date.
 * No inline sourcing for some sentences. While it is reasonably clear to me that the supporting source is provided later of the paragraph, since it is an offline source, readers would be unable to check it and to be sure all statements in the paragraph are actually supported by it. Sentences in question:
 * "Baptist Health earned its first recognition for its delivery of neurological care when it received Primary Stroke Care Certification in 2007 from The Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations."
 * "Baptist Health earned its first “Magnet” designation in 2007 for the quality of nursing care throughout its five-hospital system. Baptist Health earned Magnet re-designation in 2012 and 2017."
 * A missing word, possibly, in "In 2012, Baptist Heart Specialists, a full-spectrum specialty practice for cardiology services, was Health.".
 * These minor issues are all non-blocking IMO and you are free make tweaks to grammar and sourcing afterwards, directly in the mainspace, per WP:PLAINSIMPLECOI (For minor spelling, grammar, or entirely uncontentious factual corrections, fix it yourself). GregorB (talk) 18:10, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * GregorB To address the potential issue with sourcing, I reviewed the references and identified the problem. On reference [14] of my sandbox, we cited the Health Science Journal to support, "Accreditation is required for hospitals to receive payment from federally funded Medicare and Medicaid programs." In general, I would have refrained from using a science journal. The sentence is not critical to Baptist Health's history. Instead, it gives context to why the Accreditation was notable at the time. I found this reference that cites the same information. I'm open to replacing the reference or including these references as a backup. Thoughts on how to proceed?
 * Second, I agree with the minor suggestions you have made and will update them following your suggestion above, per WP:PLAINSIMPLECOI--Chefmikesf (talk) 21:16, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, Please see the sandbox for the photo additions. Thanks!--Chefmikesf (talk) 21:21, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I have inserted the photos. The layout is perhaps not ideal right now, but should be fine once the content is synchronized with the sandbox.
 * I'd say replacing the reference is the way to go. With that change, the History section will be ready for merging. GregorB (talk) 11:27, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
 * GregorB, The reference is replaced. Please let me know if you have any questions.--Chefmikesf (talk) 13:48, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
 * GregorB I also added an updated photo from Wikimedia Commons to the Infobox. Do you mind add this to the article during your update?--Chefmikesf (talk) 21:53, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
 * History section added - well done!
 * I'd insert the photo myself but I have some doubts about the licensing: normally, an upload by a person other than the author requires proof the image in question is indeed licensed as indicated (CC BY-SA 4.0). GregorB (talk) 21:18, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * GregorB, Can you point out your reservations about the photo? I talked to the representative from Baptist Health, and they have permission in a letter. It might be as simple as submitting it to OTRS. Also, What are your thoughts on updating the Hospitals section? Please advise.--Chefmikesf (talk) 21:30, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Absolutely, it should be submitted to OTRS, otherwise the image might be risking deletion. Once OTRS ticket is supplied, that's it.
 * Will be reviewing the Hospitals section. GregorB (talk) 18:31, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi GregorB, The OTRS Ticket will be submitted tomorrow. Any thoughts on the Hospitals content?--Chefmikesf (talk) 21:14, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi ! Time really flew by, sorry for the delay with the review. Here are some of my remarks:
 * It would be good to have inline refs for "The $45 million, 180-bed hospital opened on November 13, 1993." and "Recent additions include minimally invasive robotic surgery and a dramatically expanded ER."
 * "At the 1997 dedication ceremonies for that project, the ground was broken on another project to add a medical office building." is inline sourced to health.usnews.com, and while it does discuss the Nassau facility, I can't find support for the sentence in question.
 * Looks fine to me otherwise, I'll probably make a second pass within a couple of days. GregorB (talk) 20:25, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * GregorB I added new references to support both sections. Let me know what you think. I'm also OK to excluded either line if I need to do more research, then add the line back later.--Chefmikesf (talk) 22:38, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. The only part that didn't make it is "Recent additions include minimally invasive robotic surgery and a dramatically expanded ER." - agreed, might as well be added later. GregorB (talk) 19:09, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello GregorB, Thanks again for your help. The section looks great. The only other content change I see right now is updating the Lead Paragraph to match the recent additions to the article. Any thoughts on the lead paragraph in the sandbox?--Chefmikesf (talk) 18:55, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I've incorporated it into the article. There is room, and you might want to consider it, for an additional short paragraph in the lead section which would summarize the hospital's history. One more paragraph might summarize the services it provides. GregorB (talk) 07:41, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
 * GregorB I will take a look at the concept for the lead. Can you help add one more sentence to the Baptist Clay section? "The new facility is expected to be operational in 2022." --Chefmikesf (talk) 18:29, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ GregorB (talk) 20:10, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Article Updates
1.

Content Addition: Please add to the end of the content in the current section.

In 2016, Nicole Thomas became the first female hospital president at Baptist Health. Thomas oversees Baptist Medical Center South. In 2019, Baptist Health opened a new 12-room Wolfson Children’s Hospital pediatric emergency center at Baptist Medical Center South.

2.

Content Addition: Please add to the end of the content in the current section. In 2011, Baptist Health opened an outpatient surgical center at Baptist Beaches. The center was replaced in 2018 by the surgical pavilion at Baptist Beaches.

3.

Content Addition: Please add to the end of the content in the current section. In 2009, The Betty and David Berkman Building for Patient Care opened with 48 patient rooms, including an eight-bed ICU unit. Baptist Health opened a surgery center at Baptist Nassau in 2018.

--Chefmikesf (talk) 18:55, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help G. Moore! Now that we sorted the infobox, would you be open to revisit these edits?--Chefmikesf (talk) 23:58, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Added the additional text and did some editing to clean up the article. -- Talk to G Moore 14:36, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Company/organization vice hospital template
Before making too many more changes, Infobox hospital should be used for a hospital, not an organization that runs several hospitals. You could use Infobox company for the overall organization and Infobox hospital for individual hospitals. Infobox company can be used for religious-health organizations. WP:HOS -- Talk to G Moore 01:53, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello G. Moore, Could you show me an example of this? I'm unfamiliar with this infobox template for Hospital organizations.--Chefmikesf (talk) 18:49, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The following might help. Let me know if you have questions.


 * There is an article, Hospital network, that contains links to various "Hospital networks" that are organizations that manage hospitals. Most of the articles linked to use the , e.g. HCA Healthcare, Ascension (company), Kaiser Permanente, etc.
 * The following categories contain hospitals that use the Infobox hospital : Category:Lists of hospitals in the United States, Category:Hospitals in the United States by state, Category:Hospitals in Minnesota, etc. contain articles that use the
 * You can also look at the template:Infobox hospital for instructions on how to use this template. Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Infobox_hospital shows which articles use this template.

WP:HOS -- Talk to G Moore 19:22, 4 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for sharing this G. Moore. I have a few things I want to discuss before proceeding. I agree the larger Hospital Systems on Wikipedia should have the company infobox rather the hospital infobox. Baptist Health in Jacksonville, FL may not fit this group. It's not publicly traded, nor does it match the size of any of the hospital systems in the table. Baptist Health only has 6 Hospitals and they are primarily on the same campus. I think changing this infobox could confuse the reader.


 * In the article, Hospital network, We should unlink the Baptist Health article, then update the Baptist Health Memphis link to the appropriate article. Maybe this article the organization


 * From my understanding, the Southern Baptist Convention fund-raised many hospital projects in the twentieth century. Therefore many hospital groups in the South use "Baptist" in their name. The Baptist Health Wikipedia article is about Baptist Health in Jacksonville, FL. Baptist Health has no historical or current relationships to other Hospitals in Florida i.e. Baptist Health South Florida or in USA with "Baptist" in their name i.e. Baptist Memorial Hospital-Memphis


 * What are your thoughts?--Chefmikesf (talk) 20:10, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Many of the Hospital networks are non-profit and run by religious organizations. They still use the "Infobox company" because that matches up better than the "Infobox organization". I started including the larger hospital networks because there were more in Wikipedia since they were notable and easier to find.  There should be any problem with leaving a small network like the Baptist network in the list.  I changed the intro so that it is more inclusive.     -- Talk to G Moore 23:30, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Hey GregorB Could you weigh-in on this? G. Moore I see your point of view but I want to get GregorB's opinion since he help improve the article. Best --Chefmikesf (talk) 18:10, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * A hospital network being more akin to a company than a hospital is a good point. With the infoboxes, the general strategy is "use whatever infobox that has the parameters closest to what is needed". I'm still a bit confused about the rest, e.g. why Hospital network says 22 hospitals in the network while this article says 6. GregorB (talk) 20:47, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The first order to take care of is the Hospital network article. GregorB you're right, Baptist Health refers to the organization in Northeast Florida with six hospitals. From my research Baptist Memorial Hospital-Memphis is the correct article for that row in the table.
 * The Baptist Health is relativity small, so I thought the Hospital template worked better. My concern is some of the critical information in the Organization and Services section disappears. That said, I'm open to change as long as we include existing information that doesn't fit in the company template somewhere else in the article. If we use the company infobox template, would both of you be open to adding a sentence or 2 to the lead paragraph? This way, important content like hospital beds and the Helipad is still accessible for the reader.

Thoughts GregorB G. Moore--Chefmikesf (talk) 23:36, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Using the Infobox company in the Baptist Health article and adding the info not covered in the infobox to the article would be a good solution. Do you know the number of beds at each hospital?   Do they all have Helipads?
 * I can draft up the Infobox draft and lead content to be helpful--Chefmikesf (talk) 01:09, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. I'll be available for review. GregorB (talk) 16:47, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Hello G. Moore and GregorB, Here is the updated Infobox and Lead paragraph. What are your thoughts? --Chefmikesf (talk) 00:32, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * This looks good to me. -- Talk to G Moore 00:54, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * G. Moore Would you mind making the edit due to my COI? --Chefmikesf (talk) 21:12, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
 * , ; I've just copied the infobox and the lead paragraph to the article, but then saw there were intervening edits. Could you just confirm if this is OK? GregorB (talk) 11:49, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ,  I had already copied and made edits after copying to clean up the infobox and lead paragraph to conform with what is used in other hospital articles.  I reverted the page back to previous version.  -- Talk to G Moore 12:37, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks! GregorB (talk) 13:00, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Baptist Health, headquartered in Jacksonville, Florida, is a faith-based health system comprised of six hospitals with 1168 beds, a cancer center, four satellite emergency departments and more than 200 patient access points of care, including 50 primary care offices located throughout Northeast Florida and Southeast Georgia. Wolfson Children's Hospital, Baptist Medical Center Jacksonville, Baptist Heart Hospital, Baptist Medical Center Nassau, Baptist Medical Center Beaches, and Baptist Medical Center South are Magnet Hospitals.

New CEO April 2021
Hello G. Moore, I noticed current CEO resigned at Baptist Health. Would you mind updating the Infobox and History section?--Chefmikesf (talk) 23:40, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi and Now that Michael A. Mayo is officially CEO, what are your thought on adding Michael A. Mayo to the infobox?--Chefmikesf (talk) 17:53, 7 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Infobox:Michael A. Mayo (CEO)
 * Baptist Health (2003-present):Michael A. Mayo, DHA, was named CEO on June 3, 2021.