Talk:Bar Harbor, Maine

Hey all, I'm the WikiProject Cities assessor of this article. If you would like some advice on how to work this article, go on my talk page and give me a holler! --Starstriker7(Say hior see my works) 01:47, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Can anyone explain the difference between the town and the CDP? If I still lived in Bangor, I might remember this, but... :-) --SarekOfVulcan 05:53, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 * This is now explained in the Demographics section. -- Beland 00:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Suggested move
Anyone see a problem with moving this to Bar Harbor, Maine, and let the disambig link at the top take care of routing people to the CDP?--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 23:04, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's been a couple of days with no objection, so I'll go ahead and do it.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 04:54, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I just refactored the comments here to the template-created section below.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 13:15, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was move.

Bar Harbor (town), Maine → Bar Harbor, Maine — Most links to redirect should point here anyway — SarekOfVulcan (talk) 13:14, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Support -- Sorry, I missed this. I agree with you though! Coldmachine Talk 07:51, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support move. The CDP will be referred to only by eagle-eyed students of the Census. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:25, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support the move, and would also support merging the articles, as am not sure why the CDP needs one of its own. Hertz1888 (talk) 22:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Support the move as well, as for the merging of the CDP's in with the town, I think there was some discussion somewhere about this (maybe on one of the New Hampshire articles?). I'd support a merge there as well. MrMarkTaylor What's that?/What I Do/Feed My Box 22:51, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment -- At least include the boundaries of the CDP somewhere. Merging the CDP article is largely harmless; the update for the 2010 census may recreate it, however. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:01, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * See this and this for discussions from Fall '07 from the Vermont project about merging CDP's in with town articles. MrMarkTaylor What's that?/What I Do/Feed My Box 17:11, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Support The CDP is a secondary entity to the town. The town should occupy the main namespace. I would support merging as well but that decision should probably be left to the Maine WikiProject. Most such cases in New Hampshire have already been merged. I would also point out that there are other Maine towns with the same situation as Bar Harbor, namely Dixfield, East Millinocket, Farmington, Fort Fairfield, Fryeburg, Guilford, Hampden, Hartland, Limestone, Livermore Falls, Madison, Mechanic Falls, Mexico, Milford, Newport, Norridgewock, Oxford, Pittsfield, Rangeley, Rumford, Thomaston, Unity, Van Buren, Waldoboro, Wilton, Winterport, Winthrop, and Wiscasset. --Polaron | Talk 17:41, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sources and more information
I found some sources for this page, I wanted to put them here before I put them on the page so someone could check them.
 * http://www.discover-acadia.com/bar-harbor-fire.html
 * http://www.acadianationalpark.com/area_info/history.php

Also I found some cool info to add.
 * Accommodations & Camping: 106
 * Restaurants: 21
 * Outdoor Recreation, Sports & Adventure: 18
 * Sightseeing: 18
 * Nature: 13
 * Shopping: 12
 * Culture, History and Museums: 10
 * Visitor Information centers: 8
 * Arts & Culture: 3
 * Agricultural Attractions: 3
 * State & National Parks: 2
 * Amusement Parks: 1

Source: http://www.visitmaine.com/region/downeast/bar_harbor/

Information I think should be incorporated.
 * http://www.barharborhistorical.org/bhhistory.html
 * http://www.discover-acadia.com/bar-harbor-history.html

If an admin or higher up could let me know if these changes would be good and not braking any rules that would be grate. J Bluefire (talk) 13:41, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Those sites look alright to add, I think. The Bar Harbor Historical Society is definitely ok. VisitMaine and Discover-Acadia are a bit iffy, since they're commercial sites, but if there's information you can source to them that isn't easily accessible elsewhere, it shouldn't be a problem. AcadiaNationalPark.com, I would object to because the URL makes it sound like that's the official site. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:48, 4 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The guidance at WP:NOTTRAVEL, para. 2, would apply. I believe this nixes much of your "cool info" list. Hertz1888 (talk) 17:05, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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When does a town have to accept the label of "resort town"?
I'm trying to remove "resort" from the opening line describing the town of Bar Harbor, Maine. I think this label does a disservice to the town in multiple ways. Both economically & culturally, Bar Harbor is defined more by its significant research institutions (one of which employs 1,400 locals), its college, fishing community, hospital and schools, than it is by tourism. But, it's also, like many desirable destinations, struggling with a severe housing crisis and overwhelming seasonable tourism. These threaten its year-round community, who can no longer find housing or afford to live here. What I'm trying to say is Bar Harbor is and is struggling to remain More Than a Resort/Tourist Town. Wikipedia choosing to label it a "resort town" when many equally inundated, over-"loved" towns/cities are not so designated seems arbitrary & unfortunate. Eulenspiegel23 (talk) 19:18, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The Chamber of Commerce also mentions the tech industry. Unless there is something in the article that is sourced and supports that this is indeed a "resort town", I'd delete it. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:10, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete the word "resort"? If so, thank you! I think it's worth noting too that looking up a number of so-called American resort towns listed on various websites, most are not so designated in the opening line of their Wiki page. Eulenspiegel23 (talk) 21:04, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I've deleted the word "resort". If others object we can go from there. Thanks for your input. Magnolia677 (talk) 22:15, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I jumped the gun, because after I removed the word "resort", I noticed User:SarekOfVulcan and User:Seasider53 had already reverted this. I looked through the town website for a financial report showing revenue from tourist, or top employers, but no luck. Is there something that supports this being (or not being) a resort town?  Thanks for your input! Magnolia677 (talk) 22:22, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, & yes! Please see the pie chart on p. 51 of this 2022 "existing conditions" study gotten up for the town's Comprehensive Plan work: https://www.barharbormaine.gov/DocumentCenter/View/6373/100422-Bar-Harbor-Existing-Conditions-Analysis-Report
 * There's quite a bit of information in this report to substantiate that hospitality is but one of several "industries" driving Bar Harbor's economy. And as a very seasonal one (essentially May-October), it contributes & employs significantly fewer locals than the 2 science labs, the college, and the hospital.
 * Thank you for your support. Can you explain how these decisions are made? How do Sarek & Seasider have veto power over other contributors? I'm new to Wikipedia editing. Thanks again. Eulenspiegel23 (talk) 02:02, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Hotels named--why give them this advertising space?
What's the reason/justification for naming several hotels in Bar Harbor? There are others and this just seems like free advertising. At least the ice cream/candy shop mentioned in the preceding paragraph has the "iconic" lobster ice cream & lobster statue out front. Eulenspiegel23 (talk) 02:30, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

more on "resort" label : comparisons with other towns identified as resorts
Looking up, one by one, all of the roughly 25 different "resort towns" listed here https://www.moving.com/tips/15-beautiful-resort-towns-to-call-home/ and here https://theculturetrip.com/north-america/usa/articles/the-11-best-resort-towns-in-america/ and here https://www.architecturaldigest.com/gallery/best-resort-towns-america (on none of these lists, by the way, does Bar Harbor appear), the only towns whose opening line mentions "resort are: Edgartown MA as a "tourist destination," Gatlinburg TN as a "resort city, Palm Springs as a "desert resort city," and Hilton Head Island as a "low country resort town and barrier island." The majority, despite repeatedly making published lists as America's best or most famous "resort towns" are not described in the opening Wikipedia lines as resorts. I would further point out that none of these 4, according to their Wiki pages, has anything comparable to Bar Harbor's science institutions (Jackson Lab, Mount Desert Biological Lab) or college (College of the Atlantic). Eulenspiegel23 (talk) 03:05, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Sources commonly describe Bar Harbor as a resort town, here are just a few: Maine Encyclopedia, New England.com, Disaster at the Bar Harbor Ferry.
 * Looking at the discussion above, please remember that we go by what reliable secondary sources say, not the town Chamber of Commerce or our own analysis of the town's economy. Additionally, a town can still be a "resort town" even if it doesn't commonly appear on top-10 lists. –dlthewave ☎ 12:56, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi & thanks. I looked at the 3 sources you cite, and found (to my surprise) they actually support my argument! The Maine Encyclopedia entry begins "Town in Hancock County," then date, etc. Only in paragraph 3 does it say: "After Newport, Rhode Island, Bar Harbor was the resort of choice for wealthy eastern Americans until the great fire of 1947 destroyed many homes and forested areas.[my emphasis]" It's describing Bar Harbor's history, not naming the Bar Harbor of today a resort. The 2nd source, NewEngland.com, is a website whose primary function is tourist/travel information & advertising. That's a "reliable secondary source" for defining a town? Finally, you cite a historical novel that describes the "ritz and glamor of turn-of-the-twentieth-century Bar Harbor." Again, historical Bar Harbor. Plenty of room for the town's history--I'm not debating it. I'm only trying to get the opening line of the page right. It deserves to be called simply, neutrally a Town, and n o t pigeonholed into being a resort. Eulenspiegel23 (talk) 02:46, 2 August 2023 (UTC)