Talk:Barbara Bush/Archive 1

Vandalism
There is clearly repeated vandalism by a bot continually editing Early Life, which has been reverted multiple times. How does Wikipedia generally avoid spam by bots? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.12.172.145 (talk) 05:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

How is this a controversy? Consider omitting

 * In September 1990, Bush said in an interview for People Magazine that the then-brand new TV show The Simpsons was the dumbest thing she had ever seen. Six years later, she and her husband were parodied heavily in an episode of the show, titled "Two Bad Neighbors" in which they were satirized in a Dennis the Menace style context. Bush was portrayed as being like Martha Wilson, even using the "Oh George" catchprase made famous by the latter.:

Umbrellanon, August 2008 —Preceding undated comment was added at 04:11, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Brother's mention
Mentioning her brother in the first paragraph comes across as a political attack. She is famous for being First Lady, not for being the sister of this person. If appropriate to include in the article, it should at least be later.


 * I can't imagine how that could be a political attack, but it's definitely irrelevant; I took it out. The fellow isn't notable for anything. BarrettBrown

Blood descendancy in relation to Franklin Pierce?
Barbara Bush is NOT a blood descendant of Franklin Pierce, but she is a member of the same 'Pierce' family.

Pictures talk
Perhaps we should increase the size of the article to accommodate all of the pictures in the article? I like multiple pictures, no matter how relevant to the actual "history" of the person as it shows a more complete picture of how this person looked. The "Nixon" and "Family" pics show how deep she is in the political circle, and Bush's political dynasty. WhisperToMe 00:24, 26 May 2004 (UTC)
 * The family pic was relevant, but she was off to the edge and I had to spend some 20 or so seconds looking for her. There should be a better pic. -Unknown
 * The Nixon pic is hardly relevant. So she attended a public function...that's hardly explained in the article. Maybe this is better. Don't think about adding irrelevant pics until there's enough room for them. They make the article look worse through whitespace and/or think columns of text, not better. --Jiang 00:31, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

Redirect vandalism
Someone redirected the article to Barbara Pierce Bush. That is not her common name and I have reverted the change. Mike H 03:24, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

Derogatory vandalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Bush#Marriage_and_family

Is she a time traveler?
On the first page or so: She was born in 1925, met Bush when she was 25, and married him in 1945. I'll leave it to a real historian to fix this, if it needs fixing. -Unknown

Okay, that's not very unusual. -mast3rlinkx (joining soon)

Censorship
Please try to keep a balanced view not by suppressing opinions you do not agree with, but by adding passages that stress the positive side of Barbara Bush. It is easy to delete some other person's work, but more difficult to write about a subject of considerable interest. If you do that, your time will not be wasted. David Cruise 18:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * There is no doubt some place on Wikipedia for a discussion of Gulf War propaganda issues, but the Barbara Bush article is hardly it! She had zilch to do with it.  The fact that she alluded to some of the perhaps-propaganda claims in her memoirs is worth at most a very small mention, which is what I edited it to.  Wasted Time R 18:19, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi R. I agree with some of your concerns and I relegated bulk of the material on this issue to the footnotes. I would like this Wikipedia entry on B.B. be as informative as possible. There is a blank space in the subheading First Lady of the United States that should be filled by her role as the first lady in discussions with the foreign leaders, etc. David Cruise 19:53, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Why don't you move your material to Gulf_War, or History_of_Iraq, or George H. W. Bush, where it would be much more appropriate? All that you're establishing here is that Barbara Bush believed the U.S. justifications for the Gulf War, which is hardly a revelation.  Your user page says you were a professor who published a lot; I hope your academic papers didn't veer off-topic as badly as this contribution does.   Wasted Time R 20:07, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

French talk
Il y a plus d'un âne à la foire qui s'appelle Martin. David Cruise 21:01, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

What does that translate to in English? -mast3rlinkx (joining soon)

Super Mario Super Show and Mario Bros. Comic
Since she and president Bush make a guest appearance in the old Super Mario Bros 3 show, and a parody of her, Barbara the Bush is mentioned in the comic, I was wondering if anyone would mind if I made a reference to this in the articles. I'm sure there are parodies of most major figures, so having a section would be nice, and it would encourage people to bring more to light. Charicatures provide cool information about public comedic views of the characters. Tyciol 16:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Whoa. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:53, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

move to Talk:Barbara Bush. Joelito (talk) 04:41, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Barbara Bush (First Lady) → Talk:Barbara Bush … Rationale: Article & Talk got separated during prior moves … —Dhartung | Talk 07:01, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with  ~


 * Support as nominator. --Dhartung | Talk 07:06, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Support. Pretty clear move to me. --Usgnus 17:54, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Support. Matches the article title; seems uncontroversial. --ChrisWinter 15:33, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments

I assume this is uncontroversial, but I don't want to skip any steps after complaining elsewhere. ;-) --Dhartung | Talk 07:06, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Notable fact shared with Abigail Adams
Barbara Bush may be the second woman -- after Abigail Adams -- to see two U.S. presidents naked.
 * Anna Harrison may have been the second, making Barbara Bush the third, hmmm. A list page must be created.  Joking, of course  Jjmillerhistorian 14:52, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

If it weren't for Sirhan Sirhan you'd need to add Marilyn Monroe to that list :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.106.192.66 (talk) 20:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

disambiguation
What exactly is the logic behind having this "Barbara Pierce Bush" at Barbara Bush, and having her granddaughter, also "Barbara Pierce Bush," at Barbara Pierce Bush? This seems like madness. john k 23:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Her granddaughter isnt Barbara Pierce Bush its Barbara Welsh Bush. Jenna is Jenna Peirce Bush. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.77.127.106 (talk) 15:10, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

First Lady of the United States
Barbara Bush is famous for being First Lady, yet there's nothing written in the First Lady section. I'll try to expand it, but does anyone want to help? Happyme22 02:29, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

It's pretty funny the way it is. &mdash; Sandover 02:26, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

NPOV dispute
The article is simply not neutral. Undue weight is placed on events that represent Mrs. Bush's bad side. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.74.116.243 (talk) 02:57, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Huh? There's a short "controversy" section that mentions a few things she's been criticised for over the years. None of them seems to be covered at greater length than necessary.  So how would you cut the section, if you think it's too long?    -- Zsero 04:32, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

§→== The daugher of Aleister Crowley? ==

On the radio talk show A View From Space, November 11, 2007, Toronto talk show host "Spaceman" Gary Bell relays about the mother of the former first lady, Pauline, that nine months prior to the birth of her third child she was in France:


 * Pauline (Pierce) had two young children aged three and four when she decided to have some fun. She left her children and her husband and the States and headed off to France. When she got there, she spent time with her friend Nelly O'Hara and Frank Harris. Frank Harris also had a friend who was none other than Aleister Crowley, the head at the time of the Satanic organization known as the O.T.O. [...] This trip to France took place in 1924, the very same year that Aleister Crowley claims to have first experienced his E.C.L.'' or "eroto-comatose lucidity" [...] As I said, this all happened in 1924, in early October of 1924 Pauline Pierce after this meeting and staying with Aleister Crowley and her friend returned to the Unites States, and her children, and her husband Marvin. Exactly nine months later she gave birth to a daughter whom they called Barbara Pierce.

__meco 18:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This does not seem to be a reliable source. Colonel Warden (talk) 12:34, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You reckon? -- Zsero (talk) 12:42, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * A rumor on Canadian radio program is unimpeachable. 76.3.36.226 (talk) 18:58, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

In the version today, the name of Barbara Bush's mother linked not to a Wikipedia article but to a web-page claiming A. Crowley was B. Bush's father. As nothing in the text indicated this, the link is deceptive, and thus constitutes vandalism. I have removed it; however, FYI it was http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2006/04/george-w-bush-barbara-bush-and.html

--WickerGuy (talk) 02:12, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

This is absurd and obviously meant to discredit President Bush (which you can do quite well by sticking to documented facts). Even if the story above is true, all it says is that Barbara Bush was conceived in Europe and that her mother knew someone who knew Crowley. It is a huge leap to say that Crowley is her father, and even if Marvin Pierce was not her biological father, that would not change her name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.132.223.22 (talk) 21:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

SineBot (talk) 23:03, 28 August 2016 (UTC)Maxnwe(talk)

http://snippits-and-slappits.blogspot.com/ The Disappearing Male from Life in Pierce County on Vimeo.

) and read the accompanying data.

What we are discussing here is the "Gay Agenda", and who is behind it (Illuminati Satanists) and that not persecuting gays. I am just pointing out what others cannot or refuse to see, the fact that we are all being socially engineered towards the specific end of destroying the very fabric of society which has been thus far the heterosexual family.

As a darker part of the Gay Agenda under the Illuminati “guidance” we have the following very deviant programming.

Satan intends to keep humans away from God by popularizing all manners of deviance. The fact that we were born in a spiritual war is hidden from us. We have been blind-sided by the system's role for us. ~.get, buy, consume, accumulate, have fun.

The morality necessary for spiritual defense has been written out completely.

The spiritual war goes on despite the personal lack of awareness of it. Darksiders are out there busy recruiting for their troops and casting traps for others. If you indulge once, they've got you. Most people are possessed by dark side entities. These entities control all the thirsts and hungers which define the senses. It is these which can either have the attraction to the same gender or can be manipulated to feel that attraction.

Aliester Crowley attained the highest level of Freemasonry and carried his crusade of deviance and Satanism to America. One could say he is responsible for the satanization we see in Hollywood and entertainment for he spread his evil wherever he went, and America was fertile ground. It is he who taught the art of child sacrifice and insisted that the best offerings were blonde, beautiful, highly intelligent young males. . Homosexual sex has its place in Magickal initiation. Aleister Crowley, father of Barbara Bush, Satanist, self proclaimed “most evil magician of the century”, propagated much learning regarding sex and Magick. His works have been incorporated into many left hand path organizations, all of them satanic. Regarding anal congress, the masochistic context of Crowley's revelations is perhaps his most original contribution to Sex Magick practice. Crowley stated in The Esoteric Record that the use of women sexually “is more dangerous to the career of the magician” than sex between male partners ~ a position still held by the secretive circles of mostly male sex magicians currently practicing in both the Western and Islamic worlds.

In another piece I am currently working on, I will cover the origins of much of this from the most ancient of times in the Middle East.

For Crowley, “women should be brought to the back door like milk, when needed”.

Crowley's 'Solar Word' was manifested in his holy semen and he considered spermophagia nothing less than the key to immortality as well as mystical understanding, for semen is the Blood of the Red Lion, the primordial matter containing the essence of all forms: the elixir of life itself.

Indeed, the Alpha Lodge teaches that an erection is proof of the resurrection and that the fluid vehicle of the Spirit, the Elixir of Magick is the supreme sacrifice when collected per vas nefandum.

Borat Deleted Scene?
In a deleted scene of the Borat DVD, Borat tells a plastic surgeon that he wants to look like "this man" (Barbara Bush). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.192.37.95 (talk) 22:21, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * so what? Tvoz / talk 22:44, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Middle name at birth?
Did she have a middle name at birth or was she just Barbara Pierce? I found one place that claims she didn't have a middle name. That seems a bit strange, but I couldn't find her original middle name anywhere either. Does anyone have a reliable source? Billgordon1099 (talk) 07:02, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

quotes
"Giving frees us from the familiar territory of our own needs by opening our mind to the unexplained worlds occupied by the needs of others." Barbara Bush —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.184.26 (talk) 19:36, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Fictional portrayals: "The Naked Gun 2½: The Smell of Fear"-Played by Margery Ross "Hero"-Played by Margery Ross "The Simpsons" -Played by Tress MacNeille "That's My Bush!"-Played by Marte Boyle Slout "Lil' Bush: Resident of the United States"- Played by Mara Cary "Robot Chicken"-Played by Breckin Meyer "Memoirs Are Better as Fiction"-Played by Johnie Ann Jones —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.64.82.171 (talk) 22:54, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Respect
Barbara Bush, I have so much respect for her. She worked outside of party ideologies and supported causes for women and other social programs. If on the left or on the right, Americans and the world respects this gracious lady very much. She is the "American mother" par exellence. We all hope that she is in good health. Maybe such an statement does not belong here, I think it does. Osterluzei (talk) 21:22, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Czech ancestry
On the Wikipedia website regarding percent of Americans who are of Czech ancestry it says that Barbara Bush is of Czech descent. Yet here it says nothing about it; in fact it goes to great lengths in establishing a "purely American" pedigree. Is she or is she not of Czech heritage? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.51.145.197 (talk) 08:35, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Barbara Bush Alma Mater, Smith College
This reference needs to be deleted from the page, as she didn’t graduate from this College; an Alma Mater is meant for one’s graduating institution. She left after 1 year when she and Bush 41 got married. Charleslovett (talk) 01:22, 18 April 2018 (UTC)


 * From the template doc for Infobox person on alma_mater: "This parameter is a more concise alternative to (not addition to) |education=, and will often consist of the linked name of the last-attended institution of higher education (not secondary schools). It is usually not relevant to include either parameter for non-graduates, but article talk page consensus may conclude otherwise, as perhaps at Bill Gates." So it's not required that she graduate, especially if her tie to the school is significant. —C.Fred (talk) 01:27, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Source for unverified facts about Barbara Bush's foundation
The website for the Barbara Bush Foundation states that Jeb Bush, Jr. serves on the board of directors and Doro Bush Koch is an honorary chair. Meganreeves (talk) 01:03, 18 April 2018 (UTC)


 * ... and...? --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 05:00, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Remove Category: People from Queens, New York
She was not born in Queens, New York nor did she live there. Booth Memorial Hospital did not move to Queens, NY until after 1950, (Bush was born in 1925 when Booth Memorial was located in Manhattan, New York). She was raised in Rye, New York. Aklap (talk) 05:57, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Let's not reword Bush's tweet please
Hello. I don't understand why this edit was made. The text of what Bush said is there for all to see - why "improve" it into what someone thinks he should have said? Seems unnecessary; let's please not do this. Thanks DBaK (talk) 15:00, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Significance of the Oklahoma City Bombing
The Oklahoma City Bombing was a significant event in America, but it's unclear if the event was significant to Bush's life or career. As mentioned in the article, the Bushes considered cancelling attending events, but ultimately attended the events. I think the article needs to establish how this is significant to Bush, otherwise I think it should be removed from this article. Knope7 (talk) 01:15, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I have removed the sentences. The Bombing, while a tragic event, did not have much connection to Barbara Bush's life or career. Knope7 (talk) 03:06, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Survey for infobox image
Let's settle the official main image because there has been a frequent changing in the main image and I'm not a fan of it as it is often replaced with either not appropriate or not an official portrait. I personally go for Option A as it is an official White House portrait during her time as First Lady and it fully captures her face. Here are the options:

— Preceding unsigned comment added by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk • contribs) 05:40, April 20, 2018 (UTC)

Survey

 * Option C is the best quality of image, I think. It doesn't suffer from the blur found in B and D, nor the white specks in D and E. A is also a pretty good picture, but the slight blur, and the shadow on the right hand-side of Mrs Bush's face, makes C the clear choice for me. --Inops (talk) 23:28, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

I vote Option G. It’s an image taken of her while she was Second Lady of the United States. It’s tastefully done and is taken directly from the front. The navy dress and the blue in the wingback chair compliment her blue eyes and snow-white hair. It’s very crisp and her smile is pleasant. She’s wearing her trademark faux pearls that became her jewelry staple.Clarawolfe (talk) 02:41, 20 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Support option G, for all the reasons I listed in the discussion comments below. -- ψλ  ● ✉ ✓ 03:22, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Option C is something we have been used to for so long, but I will let you be the judge.—Davidng913 (talk) 22:20, 25 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I've added option G, which is a cropped and retouched version of option F. F has a strange bland and pale look to it, however, it is the best quality photo of Mrs. Bush in this grouping, which is why I retouched it.  The cropping on F is really to long, and this has been remedied with G, as well.  -- ψλ  ● ✉ ✓ 03:22, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

I like Option G. Well done! You made a pleasant photo even better. Option G has my vote.Clarawolfe (talk) 03:50, 20 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks, ! :-) -- ψλ  ● ✉ ✓ 04:03, 20 May 2018 (UTC)


 * And, since you've changed your !vote to G, be sure to note it above in the survey section! -- ψλ  ● ✉ ✓ 04:07, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Just changed it to G!Clarawolfe (talk) 05:47, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Options F and G are now gone. I'm working to rectify what appears to be an error of deletion at Commons. -- ψλ  ● ✉ ✓ 14:43, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Winkelvi. I added Option F to Wikipedia because I didnt think any of the other images did her justice. She was a wonderful human being. I thought your changes made the image even better.Clarawolfe (talk) 01:41, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Deleted Images
If someone could come forward and share why Options F and G were deleted from inclusion in the infobox survey, that would be most helpful. No explanation at all, or saying things like ‘Stop, don’t change this’ don’t teach us anything. If there’s a valid reason, we need to know why. With grace, please. Clarawolfe (talk) 02:17, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

I guess it was a copyright violation. I don’t see how. Thanks.Clarawolfe (talk) 02:51, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Where was she born?
Right now both Manhattan (text) and Queens (infobox) are mentioned. Does that have to do with the fact that the hospital opened in Queens in 1957 after first being located in Manhattan? Has someone seen that the hospital is located in Queens and therefore erroneously making Queens her birthplace? Calle Widmann (talk) 03:47, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 April 2018
She has died. 2600:1700:2370:980:B0E7:A966:1EB:6E33 (talk) 23:42, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. L293D (☎</b> • <b style="color:#000">✎</b>) 23:47, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2018
Born in Flushing, New York. Born in the old Booth Memorial Hospital in Flushing, New York. Phil D. Graves (talk) 01:32, 18 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. @Phil D. Graves: We need to be able to cite the information before we can add it. —C.Fred (talk) 01:34, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 April 2018
remove portion of text under "First Lady of the United States" that mentions immigration from Latin America. Suggests that that illiteracy is the special province of or aggravated among Spanish speaking immigrants, irrelevant. JohnDGray (talk) 20:54, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting comment.svg Note: Currently looking into it. OhKayeSierra (talk) 08:22, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. Edit request is also missing a reliable source. OhKayeSierra (talk) 08:29, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 April 2018
ADD: Under Honorary degrees: Date: August 25, 2005 School: Albion College State: MI Degree: Doctor of Humane Letters

References: https://www.facebook.com/albioncollege/photos/pb.21948808200.-2207520000.1524220845./10155438459938201/?type=3&theater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWy_JKe5ps 74.83.125.128 (talk) 21:22, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. OhKayeSierra (talk) 08:21, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Autobiographies?
The "Personal life and interests" section states, "In March 2019, in her last autobiography, ..." . I may be mistaken, but I didn't notice a mention of any autobiographical works elsewhere in the article, just her children's books? JezGrove (talk) 16:06, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Queens
Barbara Bush wasn't born in Queens. Booth Memorial Hospital was is Manhattan in 1925. — Eyer (If you reply, add   to your message to let me know.) 00:17, 11 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Please discuss changes to the subjects birthplace here. — Eyer  (If you reply, add   to your message to let me know.) 12:16, 20 August 2020 (UTC)