Talk:Barbary Coast, San Francisco

Argonauts?
Is it really acceptable usage to refer to people seeking gold in general as Argonauts? Kinda funny, but appropriate for an encyclopedia? I have no idea. 71.141.109.252 (talk) 01:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, nevermind. According to Websters: Ar"go*naut\, n. One of those who went to California in search of gold shortly after it was discovered there in 1848. [U. S.] --Bret Harte.

The "Argonauts of '49" were a strong, self-reliant, generous body of men. --D. S. Jordan. Learn something new every day. -71.141.109.252 (talk) 01:54, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Film?
Wasn't there a film set here that details the years leading up to the earthquake, the earthquake itself, and the aftermath? I think it was made in the 1950s. The film isn't The Barbary Coast with Edward G. Robinson. -RyanTee82 (talk) 02:14, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Mapping
Fascinating article! Asbury, whom you cite, also authored "The Gangs of NY" re New York City during a similar time period. My only issue is that I tried to use google maps to trace the boundaries of the Barbary Coast, and the 4 streets mentioned, Washington, Stockton, Broadway, and Montgomery do not seem to enclose 9 blocks. Can someone amend this? -Mnh2002 (talk) 20:31, 12 July 2013 (UTC)mnh2002

Oh, never mind, I see it now. -Mnh2002 (talk) 20:35, 12 July 2013 (UTC)mnh2002

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The Rise of Gay and Transgender Communities Section Does Not Refer to the Barbary Coast Neighborhood and Needs Corrections
The section, The Rise of Gay and Transgender Communities, was hastily created in the spring of 2017 by a single contributor (user:Kayleehage) and its content rarely pertains to the Barbary Coast neighborhood. Rather than focus on the small neighborhood called the Barbary Coast, that new section mostly focuses on San Francisco as a whole.

The time period of focus is also incorrect. The Barbary Coast moniker for that 9 block area of Pacific Street was given in the mid 19th Century and is rarely used as the 20th Century progresses, and by the middle 20th-Century those 9 blocks of Pacific Street are referred to as International Settlement. Many of the sources that this contributor cites do not belong to that time period, but refer to a later time when that 9 block section of San Francisco was no longer referred to as the Barbary Coast.

Many of the sources that user:Kayleehage cites also seem fictitious. Throughout the The Rise of Gay and Transgender Communities section are numerous sources which cite the same page (pp 104) Asbury's book, The Barbary Coast. But as look at my copy of Asbury's book in the vicinity of page 104, I do not see any material that supports user:Kayleehage 's many statements.

Any statements in The Rise of Gay and Transgender Communities Section that are correctly sourced and are relevant to the geography of the Barbary Coast neighborhood and time period could be relocated to more suitable areas within the article. However the many irrelevant statements need to be moved to a more appropriate article ( like San Francisco or LGBT community ) where they will have correct focus, because they must ultimately be deleted from this article which focuses on the Barbary Coast neighborhood during its limited time of existence. And any statements with fictitious sources certainly need to be removed. James Carroll (talk) 19:54, 27 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, thanks for taking a look at this section and bringing this up on the talk page. I plan to take a look at this section and its sourcing when I can get to the library and look at the books cited. It's very important to assume good faith, especially for new editors -- I plan to review this from the perspective that may have accidentally made errors in sourcing, such as confusing one book with another book on the topic, rather than calling the sources potentially "fictitious". I'd like to also figure out how we can move any misplaced but verifiable and sourced content to another article with the appropriate scope, rather than just deleting it. I'll also write a note on the talk page for  who may be able to help too, as the instructor listed for the course Kayleehage lists as associated with this editing project. Dreamyshade (talk) 04:32, 28 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Glad to see that someone else wants to get involved with this issue. I agree that most of the material in this section could be moved to other articles, however user:Kayleehage has been inactive on Wikipedia since May 2017 (Special:Contributions/Kayleehage). And it seems that the instructor of this course, user:Juamari, has been basically inactive since July (Special:Contributions/Juamari) and rarely participates on his Talk Page(User_talk:Juamari), but you may still have luck communicating with him. Another difficulty is that many of the sources in that section do not bother to include page numbers and leave no reasonable way to verify them. James Carroll (talk) 23:22, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * San Francisco has had a rich heritage in the creation of gay and LGBT neighborhoods. However that does not seem to be recorded in history until after the Barbary Coast era. Content creators who are interested in writing about that movement should look for other Wikipedia articles that deal with the mid to late 20th Century and/or San Francisco as a whole. Or consider adding a History Section to the LGBT community article. James Carroll (talk) 22:26, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Hotel Nymphia
64.175.41.17 (talk) 21:22, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Sourcing
Much of this article is sourced to Herbert Asbury's book, The Barbary Coast. Asbury is a great read but not the most reliable of sources, given to sensationalism, exaggeration, and mythologizing. I don't know that he ever made anything up out of whole cloth, but any reference to 10,000 people, or the anger of a crowd, and such, should be taken with a grain of salt. Are there any companion sources to back this stuff up? - Wikidemon (talk) 06:35, 24 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Not sure if everyone would agree with your condemnation of Herbert Asbury, who has written multiple books on history. We have to go with the sources that we find. If you can find any NEW sources that challenge statements in the article, then begin a discussion of the new facts you find, and some resolution can be made. If not, then the article's statements stand by their current sources. And yes, many events of the Old West may seem unbelievable, but have been shown to be true. James Carroll (talk) 16:36, 24 October 2019 (UTC)