Talk:Bardock/Archive 1

Bardock appeared in the manga. Volume 10 accd. to Viz. Check it out to get the chapter number, or I can do it later. In the manga, he's 'Burdock' though. And don't forget his son Raditz...

in the anime, didn't vegeta once say that bardock was a scientist and invented the technique of creating a false full moon? Xunflash 22:01, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Burdock being a scientist was a line in the original dub only. He never was a scientist, and he never invented the "Power Ball" The S

Name
I think the article name should be changed to Burdock instead of Bardock. Not only does the translated manga use the Burdock spelling, but the Japanese pronouncation (baadaku) is literally how you pronounced the vegetable, burdock. Bardock was just FUNimation's way of obscuring the name pun (such as naming Lunch, "Launch," Freeza, "Frieza," Coola, "Cooler," ect). Any thoughts? Chibi Gohan 21:26, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, his name is heard clearly as "Badakku", and not "Budakku". Granted, it's not much of a reason, but it's something. Is kind of difficult to decide how clear the pun is supposed to be. But I'm hesitant to use the Viz translation just because it's Viz - they also call Boo "Djinn" instead of "Majin". Viz seems to like translating names that don't need translation. -- DesireCampbell 00:25, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't believe this. You moved it even though no one supported. I'm gonna revert this.-- SUIT What!? 42 04:24, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * For some reason I can only move the talk page back but I can't move the article back. Maybe you can do something about this SUIT. -- bullet proof  3:16 04:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I came in late, can someone fill me in on what's going on here? Where was this moved to? Was it Bardock to Burdock or vica versa? -- DesireCampbell 12:35, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Some user moved Bardock to Burdock without waiting for a vote. I moved it back to Bardock.-- SUIT What!? 42 17:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The reason I edited the article is because his name isn't Bardock. Bardock is simply the name FUNimation decided to pull out of their asses, such as with "Cooler," "Launch," "Frieza," "Korin," ect. Let's look at the instances of the use of Bardock vs. Burdock.

Bardock: FUNimation's English dub (which is prone to name changes) as well as any merchandise based on their English dub (cards, video games, ect). Burdock: VIZ's English manga, the subtitled version of the anime (by the very talented Steve Simmons), the Japanese version (as baadakku is simply the Japanese pronounciation of the English word burdock), and last but certainly not least, Akira Toriyama, the creator of the character as well as the entire series. In the Dragon Ball guide book "Dragon Ball Forever," Toriyama was asked about the characters and their names. Here's what he had to say about Burdock: "I don't remember him very well (this is understandable since he was only in two panels!). Was he in the original story?  If so, his name would definitely come from the vegetable." (and then it says "(baadakku=gobou)" which is the Japanese word for burdock).

''Well, his name is heard clearly as "Badakku", and not "Budakku". Granted, it's not much of a reason, but it's something.''

"Burdock," as in, the vegetable, isn't "buudakku" in Japanese, it's baadakku. The long 'a' sound makes the 'r' sound.

And to SUIT, about what you said in one of your edit summaries ("The mover didn't wait for a full consensus. In fact, there wasn't even a vote. I'm moving it back until it's actually discussed"), you do realize that no one was willing to discuss it in the first place, right? I asked that the ones who kept reverting it back to Bardock discuss it in the talk page first, but they never listened. Only now are we having a discussion. Chibi Gohan 21:08, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * If you'd like to propose a move from Bardock to Burdock (Dragon Ball), I recommend following the procedure laid out at Requested moves, which involves creating a listing there, and setting up a 5-day survey at the bottom of this talk page. Then nobody can complain about there not being a discussion, and after 5 days, we should have an answer. -GTBacchus(talk) 21:15, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, Toriyama's not really very good at English. He romanizes Goku as "Gokuu" or "Gokuh" and Kuririn gets "Kullin" or "Kulilin" or even "Kyliln". So, Toriyama's romanizations should be taken with a grain of salt.

That said, it does seem that the name is really "Burdock". The only thing I can think of is perhaps there's a katatkana switch, can anyone get a quick scan of that Landmark page or any instance of his name as well as proper katakana of "burdock"? -- DesireCampbell 13:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

--got a page of Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru's designs from Son Gokû Densetsu http://www.daizex.com/general/tidbits/images/bardock/nakatsuru-large.jpg -- DesireCampbell

And here's "Barduck" http://www.dbzcollection.fr/barcode/cartes/barcode3/images/96_jpg.jpg   -- DesireCampbell 16:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

''Well, Toriyama's not really very good at English. He romanizes Goku as "Gokuu" or "Gokuh" and Kuririn gets "Kullin" or "Kulilin" or even "Kyliln". So, Toriyama's romanizations should be taken with a grain of salt.''

But Toriyama didn't romanize it as Burdock, he said (in Japanese) that his name is taken from the vegetable, burdock. Logically it would be spelled b-u-r-d-o-c-k in English. Chibi Gohan 22:25, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

It's unclear whether he meant for the character's name to be the word directly, or if he wanted to have a slight variation. Toriyama does both with Saiyan characters (though more frequently he uses variations on vegetable words instead of the word itself). The name could be "taken" from "burdock" but changed slightly, like he did for Broli, Paragus, Kakarrot, etc.

From what we've seen, it's probably 'Burdock'. I've been told that 'burdock' would be baadakku, and with Toriyama's answer in the quoted interview specifically mentioning godou like that - I'mm leaning toward 'Burdock' myself. -- DesireCampbell 23:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

About Burdock inventing the false moon.
I've been watching the japanese version of DBZ Uncut, and Vegeta never said that Burdock created the false moon. He said something along the lines that "only a few gifted saiyans have this ability". I think that the reference of Burdock creating the false moon, must have just been dialogue that FUNIMATION added in the dubbed american version of DBZ.

- That whole business about Goku's father inventing a false moon is an invention of the early FUNimation dub. What Vegeta actually says is that a saiyan who collects enough bruits rays can actually create an artificial moon. The bruits waves is absorbed through the eyes and sets off a gland in the saiyan's tail. That is what triggers the oozaru form.

possibly-taracka

It was. Bardock was not a "brilliant scientist." Onikage725 21:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

None of the information in the Bardock special is canon Bartock did NOT play an important role in the Saiyan race other than fathering Goku user:Dragon Emperor

Actually, Dragon Emperor, the Bardock Special is canon due to the fact that Akira Toriyama considers it canon thus making the events in the Bardock Special Canon.

In the first showing of DragonBall Z, it is said that Bardock was a brilliant scientist and whatnot. However, when the tv special came out, there were obvious conflicts. When FUNimation redid the episodes for the "Ultimate Uncut" edition of the Saiyan, or now called, "Vegeta" saga, all mentions of Bardock being a scientist have been edited out. user:Nsmith4658

I think I remember Vegeta mentioning that Goku's Saiyan grandfather was the creator of the false moon trick in the anime, though I have not seen the episode for quite some time and I may be mistaken. - Sh@z@M

No, Vegeta's saying of Bardock being the scientist behind the Power Ball is false, and a line thrown in during the original dubbing of the show. It is incorrect, the original line in the Japanese has Vegeta explaining the numbers of (I forgot the exact name) light rays needed from the moon to be absorbed by the eyes to change into an Oozaru. My guess is they thought this was too boring/technical for kids and made up the thing about Bardock, probably not even knowing there was a TV Special about him that would later cause this confusion. - User: VegeKaka

Anime to manga
the line "He is the first character portrayed in a manga that was actually introduced in anime filler." should probably be "...in the manga...". I don't know of any other character in any other anime that was introduced first in the anime and then in the original manga, but saying Bardock's the first in a manga makes it sound like he's the first one ever. -- DesireCampbell 12:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * What?-- SUIT What!? 42 18:04, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The sentence "first character... in a manga" makes it sound like he's the first ever in any manga - which may be true, but seems like a guess. I switched it to the so it only refers to DragonBall. -- DesireCampbell 22:16, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

So, Power Level changed it back to "a manga". I'm still rather skeptical about this. I'd love to be able to include this, but it seems a rather large leap. Can anyone confirm this? -- DesireCampbell 20:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

You should leave it as that. What I'll do is add ["he is the first known...] That better? --Power level (Dragon Ball)

Saying he's the first in any manga is a bit out of scope. I tink it's best to just say ge's the first (or perhaps only) character in the DragonBall manga to originate in the anime. -- DesireCampbell 16:45, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

That's why I added known next to it. Until you can find someone else, change it. I couldn't find any research anywhere concerning a character that appeared in filler, and then the manga, except for Burdock of course. Power level (Dragon Ball) 17:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

So, how about "Bardock is the only character in the Dragon Ball manga that originates in the anime."? I'm worried about bloating the sentence with "Dragon Ball", but would "the" be too ambiguous? -- DesireCampbell 17:27, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Like I said, until you can find another fictional character in this real life world which was either introduced, showed up first, etc. in animation, and then had a role in a manga, then you can change it. The thing is, there aren't any current known characters (as of yet) which were filler people, and then canon people because of an author that loved a character so much that they decided to place them in a manga. Do you see what I mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Power level (Dragon Ball) (talk • contribs)

I'm getting confused. I think that the article should say "the manga" because saying "a manga" is out of scope for the article. I'm getting the feeling that you want to say "a manga", but I'm a little confused - could you clear up your position a bit? Thanks. *embarrassed face* -- DesireCampbell 00:01, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Requested move (old)

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

PAGE MOVED per discussion below. It appears there's still some question of whether the article ought to be called Bardock or Burdock, but that's a separate issue. I guess really it would be between Bardock and Burdock (Dragon Ball)... -GTBacchus(talk) 03:41, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Bardock (Dragon Ball) → Bardock – { Bardock -(Discuss)- Someone moved Bardock to Burdock (Dragon Ball Z) awhile ago, then I moved the page to Burdock (Dragon Ball) to fit in with the other pages. Someone else changed Bardock to redirect to Bardock (Dragon Ball Z), then to Bardock (Dragon Ball), then Burdock (Dragon Ball). The original move was made without a concensus, so it was moved to Bardock (Dragon Ball) due to not being able to move it to Bardock. --Takuthehedgehog 23:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC)}

Survey
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~ --Takuthehedgehog 23:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Support- -- SU IT  23:30, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Support -- DesireCampbell 00:58, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Support there is no other Bardock to confuse this with. Brackets don't need to be used unless there is a dab page. This is also very similar to what happened with the King Cold article which was moved for the same reason. There were no other King Cold's --67.71.77.211 05:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
Add any additional comments --Takuthehedgehog 23:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I am crazy confused here. Mr. Satan gets put at Hercule but Bardock should stay at Bardock? I support the move to Bardock, but I'm just confused as to why the change from the Viz translation (and sop soon after that "Hercule" debacle). -- DesireCampbell 00:58, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I dunno, I just suport the Japanese version names, and whoever moved it to Burdock didn't meet a concensus first, so it got moved to Bardock (Dragon Ball). Takuthehedgehog 03:12, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.