Talk:Baron Latimer

Untitled
Is it vested in Willoughby de Broke? From what I can gather it went into abeyance in 1521, but unlike Willoughby de Broke, was not then called out of abeyance. So it would seem to be that it is dormant and in abeyance. john k (talk) 19:53, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Exactly what is the difference between Latymer and Latimer? If they are the same, why are there two different pages? Also, that would out these people whom are being claimed as the current de jure Barons as the barony remained in abeyance after the 4th Baron Latimer had no male heirs, until 1913, when the abeyance was terminated in favour of Francis Money-Coutts, who became the fifth Baron. He was the only son of the Reverend James Drummond Money and his wife Clara Maria Burdett, fourth daughter of Sir Francis Burdett, 5th Baronet, and claimed the peerage as a descendant of Frances, eldest daughter of the Hon. Lucy Neville, third daughter of the fourth Baron Latymer/Latimer. As of 2009, the title is held by the fifth Baron's great-great-grandson, the 9th Baron who succeeded his father in 2003. -- Lady Meg (talk) 04:43, 31 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Erm, the difference is that they're different peerages. They just happen to have similar names. Proteus (Talk) 13:42, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

The Barony of Latimer was created by writ in 1290/1299. Elizabeth Latimer, only child of William Latimer, 4th Baron Latimer and suo jure Baroness Latimer, married as his second wife John Nevill, 3rd Baron Nevill. They had two children, a son John Nevill and a daughter Elizabeth, who married Sir Thomas Willoughby. John Nevill succeeded his mother as 6th Baron Latimer and died in 1430. In 1431 his nephew of the half blood, George Nevill (son of Ralph Nevill, 1st Earl of Westmorland, son of the 3rd Baron Nevill by his first wife) was summoned to Parliament as Baron Latimer, despite not being descended from the original Barons Latimer and despite the existence of issue from the marriage of Elizabeth Nevill and Thomas Willoughby. Thomas and Elizabeth's great-grandson Robert Willoughby was summoned as Baron Willoughby de Broke in 1491, and petitioned to be recognised as 9th Baron Latimer of the 1299 creation. The case was not continued after the Lords heard counsel for Richard Nevill, 2nd Baron Latimer of the 1431 creation. The claim to the 1299 creation went into abeyance on the death of Robert Willoughby, 2nd Baron Willoughby de Broke in 1521. The 1431 creation became abeyant on the death of John Nevill, 4th Baron Latimer, in 1577. Richard Verney was recognised as 11th Baron Willoughby de Broke (but not as 19th Baron Latimer) in 1696. The abeyance of the 1431 barony was terminated in favour of Francis Money-Coutts in 1913. -- Lady Meg (talk) 03:29, 1 February 2011 (UTC) From what I gather here.. it is the same title only a new creation of Baron Latimer as it states 'NEVILL -- BARONS LATIMER', not Latymer, made for Sir George Nevill (Neville), son of Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland, by writ of summons dated 25 Febraury 1432 was summoned as Lord/Baron Latimer. "Memorable also is this Richard Lord Latimer for the dispute he had with Robert, Lord Broke touching the Barony of Latimer to which as next heir in blood to John Lord Latimer of Danby who died sp the 9th Henry VI he claimed a right But to end the contention the Lord Broke was informed by an herald that Sir George Nevill grandfather to Richard was created Lord Latimer by a new title which therefore lineally descended to Richard by Henry son and heir of the said George and that the Lord Broke had made a wrong claim who should have claimed his style from William Latimer first created Lord Latimer of Danby the head manor of his barony temp Edward L on this the Lord Broke perceiving his error and having a title of his own was contented to conclude a match between their children and Richard suffered a recovery on certain manors and lordships demanded by the Lord Broke in with which adjustment both parties were well satisfied-- BANKS." - from Burke Peerage -- Lady Meg (talk) 04:50, 1 February 2011 (UTC) Willougby Broke Peerage written before the abeyance was terminated in 1913 in favour of Francis Money-Coutts, 5th Baron Latymer/Latimer states: "WILLOUGHBY DE BROKE BARON Henry Peyto Verney b 5th April 1773 inherited the title as eighth baron the decease of his brother 1st September 1820 and as heir general to the barony Latimer created by writ of summons December 1299 his lordship is by Lord Latimer although he has has not established his right m in March 1829 Margaret third daughter of Sir John Williams bart of Bodelwyddan" -- Lady Meg (talk) 07:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * What actually happened is that Elizabeth Latimer, whom we call 5th Baroness Latimer, married Lord Neville of Raby as his second wife; she had two children: John Neville, 6th Baron Latimer, and Elizabeth Neville, who married a Willoughby. John divorced his wife, and died without children; he left his land to a younger son of his half-brother, who was summoned to Parliament as Lord Latimer; that's one Barony of Latimer. But by modern law, John Neville's own title descended to his 'sister's'' only son, who never used it; his great-grandson was raised to the Peerage as Lord Willoughby de Broke, 60 years later.


 * There are two other Baronies of Latimer, both belonging to this same family; one is in abeyance, and the other is dormant (one of the hundreds of phantastic peerages which result in theory from a man getting a writ under Edward II or thereabouts, and none of his descendants ever being summoned again; several of these were raised from the dead in the nineteenth century, but in this case the descent is lost.)  Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:04, 5 February 2011 (UTC)