Talk:Barotseland

colony
Was Barotseland a separate british colony in the nineteenth century? An atlas I have shows it separate from Northeastern Rhodesia --Astrokey 44 09:23, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * From what I have read it does not appear that Barotseland was separate from Northern Rhodesia; but did have a great level of autonomy, making it a protectorate in a protectorate. What is certain is that Barotseland was the native chiefdom which was by far most had most internal autonomy in Rhodesia and Nyassaland.--Aldux 09:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Barotseland's status as a British protectorate was complex and is still the subject of much debate and politicking in Zambia, and relates to calls for secession, it needs to be expanded in the article (perhaps best by someone who is neutral!) as it is the potential source of future conflict. I can have a go at it later if no-one else does. Rexparry sydney 00:56, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, Barotseland Protectorate was indeed a protectorate within a protectorate. It was the original North West Rhodesia with capital at Kalomo. The logic was that by taking in Barotseland as a protectorate, Cecil Rhodes' British South Africa Company, which actually administered Barotseland until the crown took over I think in 1923, was expanded to include what is now the Copperbelt for obvious reasons. Once this had been accomplished and a more global Northern Rhodesia had been formed, it was no longer important to recognise Barotseland as a separate protectorate although all colonial officers went to great pains to assure succeeding Litungas that Barotseland would always enjoy special treatment and that it was truly under the British monarch which was what each Litunga wanted to hear. It was to the British monarch only that Litungas swore allegiance from the time of Lewanika. Barotseland's entry into Zambia under special conditions that were to be guaranteed by Kenneth Kaunda, Presdient of the First Zambian Republic was a painful one worthy of a separate entry. These were enshrined in the Barotseland Agreement 1964, signed by Litunga Mwanawina III, Kaunda and Duncan Sandys the Colonial Secretary. The Barotseland Agreement was abrogated by Kaunda in 1969 shortly after what had become Barotse Province at independence became Western Province. In fact, most Lozis today do not support any idea of seccession. They are too busy eking out an existence aothough the true explanation for this lack of enthusiasm for autonomy differs between town and country.GFDL —Preceding unsigned comment added by Flintdenton (talk • contribs) 09:23, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * When the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland was being broken up in 1962-63, the Barotse king expressed strong opposition to becoming part of an independent Zambia. Sir Roy Welensky tried to support him, but to no avail. [The only reference I have is Ian Smith's book "The Great Betrayal"; better sources must surely be available, but I cannot access them]. --DLMcN (talk) 15:58, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Pro-independence bias in article
This article, or at least parts of it, appears to be biased with regard to claiming that Barotseland is or should be independent and is being illegally occupied by Zambia:


 * On 4 December 1991, in a landmark Ruling, the High Court of Zambia ruled that the Barotseland Agreement 1964 was abrogated, and no longer exists. The judgment shows vividly how the Zambian Government violated and rendered the Barotseland Agreement null and void.
 * This clearly meant that there is no relationship between the two nations and there is nothing people can do to mend the broken relationship between Zambia and Barotseland, because the High Court had clearly stated that the Barotseland Agreement was terminated by introducing amendments to the laws.
 * What remains now is an act of illegal occupation; Zambia has terminated the agreement and yet continues to enjoy the privileges and rights contained in the Barotseland Agreement.

The so-called judgment of the High Court of Zambia cited herein can be found at. However, a careful look at it shows that what is here is not the court's judgment, but rather an affidavit supplied by a representative of the Zambian Attorney General's office (the defendant in the case). Even if one could say that the affidavit supports the plaintiff's case that the Zambian government violated the Barotseland Agreement, it is not itself the ruling of the High Court. If there is such a ruling, I don't know how to find it. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 10:51, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Terminology
Could we have some clarification on terminology, with local expertise?

The opening says "the Lozi people or Barotse, or Malozi as they call themselves". I am no expert, but surely malozi is the singular and balozi or 'barotse' a plural?

Hogweard (talk) 22:02, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

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Not in Line with History
I think this article should stick to facts and not be mixed with fallacies and issues based on political agendas.

The map of the region is not supported by history but created by pro-independence ideology. In particular, History has named all areas that other kingdoms controlled and influenced which this map erroneously includes in Barotseland map. For example, the Lunda-Luba kingdom under Naweji (who died in 1690), covers the northwestern regions of Zambia and this is backed by history again when Mwata Kanongesha and Mwata Ishindi occupied the areas of the now Mwinilunga and Zambezi east respectively of the modern day Zambia with the same area occupied by the Luvales another off-shot of the Luba-Lunda kingdom.

Further, the link of this map has a historical problem of imposition and claim that the Lozi worked with colonial government to bring colonialism to it's high by falsifying that they controlled Balovale district at the time of "scramble for Africa". This is exemplified by the statement that "Because it suited both BSAC and Lozi interests, Balovale, as it was then called, was regarded as a part of Bulozi" and that "The division of the Upper Zambezi between three colonial powers and the subsequent restructuring of the hierarchy of local chieftainships, when combined with 'recognition' of a very few chieftainships, meant that the Lunda and, especially, the Luvale were given a political structure that was both almost wholly new and without significant customary power."

This is the fact that should be contained and corrected to reflect the truth and not suit pro-independence ideology of authors.

Munjunga (talk) 07:05, 4 October 2017 (UTC) munjunga

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Current borders of barotseland
The current borders of barotseland are within the western province of Zambia Omarmpamba (talk) 13:36, 23 April 2020 (UTC)