Talk:Barry Manilow/Archive 1

Note about chronology of discussion: The discussions on this page have been left generally in the order in which contributors chose to insert their comments; please note, however, that the earliest discussions may appear further down the page than responses to those early discussions. Also, many were initially unsigned and undated. I have made the effort today to use the "unsigned" template and the Talk page history to fix this confusion; also, in a few places where the chronology jumps around, I added an indentation to clarify the thread of discussion (i.e., who is responding to whom, when). I know some may see that as taking liberties, but I am trying simply to be bold in helping to clarify a confusing discussion.Lawikitejana 21:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

personal life
Some article you got here, gay boys. He's had the same lover/manager for 20+ years and you don't even mention him. No facts about his private life - just an annoyingly long trivial section. And there seem to be two types of people in this discussion.

1. People who are pissed that all the gay boys want to defend their idol as NOT being gay.

2. The gay boys.

Gar(r)y Kief - Manilow's manager for 20+ years. Anybody who's followed Manilow's career knows of this. Google it. Look it up. Stop being such insufferable twits.

This could use a short blurb about his personal life. has he been married? has he had kids? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.35.198 (talk • contribs) 15:07, 12 February 2006


 * I beleive Barry Manilow is 60 years old not 63 so the year he was born should be 1946 not 1943. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.91.250.172 (talk • contribs) 02:20, 10 September 2006
 * The article, as currently constituted, asserts that early in Manilow's career, Arista Records lied about his age &mdash; saying he was three years younger than he is &mdash; in order to appeal to a younger fan base. I'll go back and see if that claim is sourced. Lawikitejana 21:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Married once, no kids —Preceding unsigned comment added by Weatherman90 (talk • contribs) 15:30, 19 February 2006


 * He was never married, surely? He's not into that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.255.236.103 (talk • contribs) 03:02, 26 March 2006

Yes, he was married for 1 year to Susan Deixler, in 64, I believe. Then he had a long term relationship with producer Linda Allen, but that all ended in the late 70's early 80's. I don't believe there have been any other publicized relationships with women.Arquismujer 02:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Manilow is believed to be gay.
 * Believed??!?? LOL!!111

Believed...by who exactly? LOL indeed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.237.56.123 (talk) 18:13, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

comment under picture, is this vandalised? Manilow eats man meat? Sounds like an insult to me...


 * His initial claim to fame was playing the piano for Bette Midler (a gay icon) at the Continental Baths (a gay sex club). In 1998, he organized a benefit for the Gay Men's Health Center in New York.


 * As with many celebs, Manilow fears that outing himself would detract from his fan base, mainly middle-aged or older women.


 * Here's a photo of Barry with a "close friend" in Greenwich Village:
 * http://socialitelife.com/images/barrymanilow02.jpg


 * Any attempt at entering anything about Manilow's personal life (i.e. alluding to his sexuality) in Wikipedia is undone by his fans, such as Michael Zimmer (Mtz206). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.228.74.197 (talk • contribs) 17:56, 5 April 2006


 * Why's the photograph somehow relevant? A dude walking in the street with another dude - that makes them homosexual? As for "Manilow fears that outing himself would detract from his fan base", please present verifiable sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.157.147.7 (talk • contribs) 05:09, 7 September 2006

---

7/4/06 This removal stuff is getting ridiculous and it smacks of censorship! Other celebrities have Wikipedia entries about somewhat sensitive things about their personal life, what makes Barry Manilow so sacrosanct that no one can talk about stuff that is mentioned right here on the discussion page? I was attempting to address the issue raised earlier on this page re: no information personal life. I put in a perfectly FAIR paragraph about the biographies and his personal life, everything I put in there was VERIFIABLE with legitimate sources...and it was removed by Wakeenah in its entirety! I would say that if enough people are discussing it here at this talk page AND throughout cyberspace...it is VERY relevant! I say that my paragraph should be re-instated (at least the part about the marriages) and this page then be put on a protected basis.Ladycascadia 22:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)


 * You are trying to push your own personal agenda of "outing" someone who has not stated publicly what his orientation is. I don't care if you have TEN books that say he's gay. Until HE HIMSELF says so, or until someone has published a verifiable photo of him making out with another man, it is irrelevant. Wahkeenah 23:45, 4 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Wakheena, you do not not know me, so I feel it is out of line to accuse me of having any sort of "agenda" personal or otherwise. I really don't care one way or another. Despite what you might think, I have no "agenda" nor am I "outing" or "closeting" anyone here! I merely attempted to address the first issue addressed here at the talk page re: the lack of information on Mr. Manilow's personal life. Based on other Wikipedia pages about other celebrities and their relationships or lack thereof, I do not feel it is wrong to have that paragraph. The marriage and the cohabitational relationships are definitely verifiable. Manilow himself even wrote two songs about the relationships he was involved in. One was called Some Good Things Never Last which is available on the Barry Manilow album from 1989. The other is called A Linda Song which is on the Even Now album from 1977. That fact can be backed up by his OFFICIAL website, Barrynet. So perhaps you can tell us editors here how best to write about this topic without rejecting it out of hand or making any unfounded accusations. I happen to be a Manilow fan, and I do not mean any harm to him or his career. As for the stuff about Manilow's alleged orientation... like it or not, the speculation is there, and has been there for a long time. I didn't invent it. I also noticed that any references to his early career playing piano for Bette Midler at the Continental Baths has been excised from the page as well. Now this is a well known fact that any true Manilow fan knows, and has been for more than 30 years. So why can't that be discussed or placed on the page? Ladycascadia 02:24, 5 July 2006 (UTC) 02:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Your actions contradict your words. Wahkeenah 05:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Wahkeenah, you and others here seem to need the proverbial brick to fall on your head. Of course we cannot 'prove' whether Manilow is gay or not, just as you cannot 'prove' that he is not. What difference does it make if we have a photograph of it or not? Did we have any of Rock Hudson? No, but that didn't change the fact that he was gay. Manilow would have been crazy to make a public statement of his sexuality, as it would have severely hurt his record sales, and he is in business, after all. If Manilow doesn't want to talk about his private life, there is a good enough reason for it, and it's his decision, but the writing is clearly on the wall. Whoever removed the info regarding Barry's origins at the Continental is the one who has the "agenda", as stated elsewhere on this page. References to Manilow's sexuality do not belong on the main page, but the information about his professional origins does. Get over it! VertigoXpress 15:18, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * There is a very serious difference between something being obvious and something being a fact; given proper evidence, all facts are obvious, but not all obvious things necessarily turn out to be facts, and one should be very, very careful when stating something obvious as a fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.157.147.7 (talk • contribs) 16:15, 7 September 2006


 * It might be argued that it is YOU who has the "agenda" by completely removing the ENTIRE paragraph then making an attack such as you did in the history section accusing people of slander. This is NOT my intent. Fine, you win. I'm not going to participate in this section anymore. It's not worth all this aggravation. May I suggest, however, that you take a look at the wikipedia profile for say Jim Morrison of the Doors? There is a large section dealing with Morrison's personal life, some of which is unsubstantiated, but no one sees fit to go in there and expurge entire sections and then accuse others of having "bad" intentions. So what if Manilow is or is not gay? Does it make him a lesser musician? absolutely not! Johnny Mathis is gay and it hasn't hurt his fan base, nor has it hurt the fan bases of Elton John or Ellen Degeneres. Other stars are straight and it doesn't change a thing, either. I think that an emotionally mature fan or person is not afraid to discuss ALL aspects of a celebrity's life, but you needn't worry...I will not be coming back here since in your zeal to 'overprotect' you see fit to make unwarranted attacks on the characters of other Wikipedians as you did on Arniep and myself...and in doing, so you are indulging in a bit of a hypocrisy, don't you think? Enjoy your little "victory" against people's First Amendment freedoms Ladycascadia 20:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Slander is not covered under the First Amendment. Morrison is dead. Elton and Ellen have gone public. I don't know about Mathis. Unless someone either says they are, or someone produces a photo of them making out with a same-sex partner, or if it is proven some way (and not just somebody's opinion, in a book or whatever), then it is nothing more than gossip and has no place here. Wahkeenah 04:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

4/19/2006 That pic of Barry Manilow is NOT real it's FAKE. Barry is NOT gay!! And he said over and over that he's married to his music:)Well then I guess that explains his relationship with a WOMAN he's been living with(Linda Allen) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.204.219.230 (talk • contribs) 18:47, 20 April 2006
 * Nope, he's not gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :) Wahkeenah 02:49, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Note: It's not clear which of two disputed photos is being referenced here. One person posted a photo of Manilow allegedly grabbing his crotch in concert, which others said was an impersonator (then removing the post) and still others claimed to have seen in person (not that that would necessarily count under Wikipedia verifiability standards) or to have posted an article about (which would count). However, I get the impression that Wahkeenah was disputing the photo posted 5 April 2006, when one poster argued that a photo of Manilow with a male companion was evidence of a gay relationship, a claim likewise disputed by various people on this Talk page. Lawikitejana 21:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

10/7/06 Anybody ever bother to read his autobiography? He talks about his marriage and his relationships with women. He does not state that he is gay. I don't give a crap if he is. Unless HE says so, it's nobody's business. Does it make his music any worse or better? And as to the whole Continental Baths thing: Bette Midler played there too and she's married and has a kid.... not that that means anything, I was once married to a gay man and we had a son. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Absolutlysexy (talk • contribs) 19:48, 9 October 2006

Observations: (1) The question is relevant. I got here trying to answer that question myself. (2) He doesn't get to decide whether he's outed. Nobody does. (3) Gay icons are not always gay themselves. Cher, for example, is very much straight. (4) Straight people often support "gay" causes and politicians. I do, for instance. (5 The kicker). There's no verifiable evidence that he's gay. He was married to a woman. "Seeming" gay does not make one so. Don&#39;t Be Evil (talk) 19:08, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Just so you all know....
Barry Manilow's NOT gay! He's been living with his lady friend Linda Allen. I don't know for sure if they are still together I heard rumours that in 2000 they broke up:( But now I heard that he's with some new chick named Keely(Watson?). Jeez it just goes to show you he's got a big heart and accepts people of all kinds and that does NOT make him gay in any way. Don't get me wrong I've got nothing against gay people but I know Barry's NOT one of them!

Just a quit note here - Keely Watson is a gay man.....

From a loving female fanilow —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.204.219.230 (talk • contribs) 20:39, 20 April 2006
 * ''Note by Lawikitejana 21:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC): Looking through the history shows that the user 151.204.219.230 created this "Just so you know" section after deleting the entire "personal life" discussion (with the edit summary "deleted garbage"), a change reverted by 62.255.232.80, with the "just so you know" restored by Arniep post-reversion.
 * Comment: It is so amusing when one sees these clueless "fans," who worship a performer, and not his work. The key word is "worship," not "appreciate," or "understand." Mention that a peformer, composer, playwright, etc. might be gay, and these "fans" become apopleptic. That Mr. Manilow is gay is such common knowledge among urbanites and others in the music industry, that no one even raises an eyebrow. These "fans," wherever they live, with their heads (or whatever) in the sand, inhabit a time-warp all their own, oblivious even to their "idol." Ditto for his middle-aged hard-up female "admirers," for Liberace. Those women of a certain age, who repeatedly denied any hint of a suggestion of an innuendo that he might somewhow be *gasp* homosexual. Wake up; Manilow is gay. You can be a fan in spite of his serious moral failing, or whatever your sense of values decrees it to be. We can list these groups indefinitely: Elton John, Liberace, George Michael, Stephen Sondheim, etc. etc. Enjoy the music, and don't be overly concerned about what he does in his bedroom, or with whom. 66.108.4.183 13:58, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


 * "Common knowledge" is otherwise known as "gossip" or "hearsay" or "original research", and thus is ineligible for entry in this website. More to the point, unless you've either heard Manilow say that he's gay, or have seen him making out with a man, you have no basis for this assertion. Wahkeenah 14:27, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


 * 1. "Common knowledge" can mean gossip, hearsay, or rumor, as you say. But it can also refer to facts such as the discovery of America in 1492.
 * 2. Even if I had first-hand knowledge of the kind you describe, it would be ineligible (and properly so) for inclusion in Wikipedia because of the prohibition on (a) no original research (b) no facts that are not publicly verifiable. :::Consequently:
 * 3. I did not place my statements in the body of the article.
 * 4. Nevertheless, I merely intended to point to one of a group of facts which, while not universally known, are indeed known to many people. All I was doing was responding, in the same informal vein as the previous writer, to the issue under discussion. My comments were not intended to convince anyone who does not want to be convinced. 66.108.4.183 05:54, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Your posting of this non-information on the talk page helps further the rumors despite the lack of any evidence. Wahkeenah 11:03, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I have not been following the debate, but I stopped buy to read about the extent to which it is believed that Manilow is gay. While it is clear that he has not publicly stated whether or not he is gay, there is still a belief, held by a number of the public, that he is.  One can address the perception, and acknowledge that it is unsubstantiated, and it is still worthy of an encyclopedia. Srcastic 02:25, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * And thus make wikipedia an agent in furthering slander. Yeh, that's a good idea. Wahkeenah 14:53, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

"slander"?? Now who's got an agenda? The censorship is this article over Manilow's sexuality and the fact that most people assume he is gay would make Stalin blush. Vauxhall1964 (talk) 11:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * well, i work in the music biz and not everyone in it "knows" he is gay as is claimed here. First of all his private life is his private life and working in this business will not change what we know and don't know. The comparison with Liberace is not needed. First of all the public are a lot more understanding today and most people guessed liberace was a poofter before he died. Not so in Barry's case. He has not done anything to raise suspicions beyond mere gossip. 74.65.39.59 14:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Working in a gay bathhouse playing piano for Bette Midler doesn't raise suspicions about being gay? I mean, granted it doesn't mean he IS, but if this doesn't raise a few questions, please tell me what would? VertigoXpress 16:23, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If you want to explore such speculation, find an online discussion forum. This is an encyclopedia. --MichaelZimmer (talk) 16:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[The next comment (MichaelZimmer 4 August 06) references a message that VertigoXpress had posted then deleted from this space.]
 * Perhaps you are working on a stronger argument, since you deleted your original reply, but according to your logic, if BM played in a church, then he must be a priest, and if he played in a football stadium, then he must be a sports fan (or at least "raise a few questions"). Again, idle speculation has no place in an encyclopedia. --MichaelZimmer (talk) 18:40, 4 August 2006 (UTC) (signed in as User:ZimZalaBim/ZimZalaBim)
 * I deleted my response because it seems as if the info about the Continental Baths has been restored to the article. I was under the impression fans were deleting it, out of fear it might confirm somebody's suspicion that Manilow might be gay. The inclusion of facts is the only thing that attracted me to this discussion in the first place, I never attempted to place any discussion about Manilow's sexuality in the main article, which this is not. Additionally, the whole discussion is absolutely ridiculous and a waste of time, as trying to explain the obvious always is. VertigoXpress 07:30, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Look either you love his music or you don't. I'm a young female Barry fan and I could careless who he sleeps with. Just as long as he's happy and healthy and keeps making beautiful music then its ok with me:) November 16,2006 - ---...FF17:56, 16 November 2006 (UTC)~


 * Manilow is gay, his partner as pictured above is Gary Kief. Its really interesting to see what "private inofrmation" is allowed to be posted in wikipedia, and which is considered taboo. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.125.163.221 (talk) 12:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC).
 * Prove it. Wahkeenah 13:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Just to clarify, Barry Manilow is straight. Married once, then in long term relationships with women. I think this person who keeps writing here about it is the gay one. One thing that should be outed though is his plastic surgery - he can hardly move his face know, and Jonathan Ross, who interviewed him, stated that he has definitely had "work".

Gay or not gay

Seems to me, working in a gay bath-house or with a gay icon means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. All you naives evidently, have never worked in the arts. If you did, you would understand that everywhere you shake a stick, exists someone or something of gay orientation. So if you are gay by association, then every single artist, on the entire planet is gay. I'm not a Manilow fan, I just happened to look him up after hearing one of his specials on PBS last night. But I am/was a performing artist. ~ Roseba (not logged in) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.173.207.103 (talk) 12:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

The Damned Crotch Pic
''Note by Lawikitejana 21:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC): This discussion of a picture actually predated other discussions on this Talk page, some of which refer to the discussion that follows. The original message, responses, and picture (purporting to show Manilow grabbing his crotch during a performance) were deleted later, in some cases by those who posted them.''

Ok. Given the category of entertainment Manilow is known for (ie: he's not Michael Jackson), the picture can be considered derogatory (and likely actionable) if we leave it up there either incorrectly characterised, or without proper primary source documentation that it was *actually* Manilow.

Since none of us (I'm assuming) wish to get Wikipedia *sued*, I'm sure we can all leave the picture *off* the page until such time as someone can provide the appropriate primary documentation as to whom the picture is actually of... right? You're on notice, people. Quit playing; we have a Sandbox for that. Baylink 19:49, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Here's proof it's really Barry Manilow:
 * http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/manohmanilow


 * not my club but I heard he grabbed it recently in chicago.
 * So there you go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by name (talk • contribs) date


 * Here's more proof it's really Barry.
 * Chicago Daily Herald - Barry's show lacking in Barry
 * http://www.dailyherald.com/lake/main_story.asp?intID=3828384
 * Chicago Daily Herald - October 23, 2004
 * Barry's show lacking in Barry By Jamie Sotonoff Daily Herald Staff Writer
 * As he said hello to fans at the Allstate Arena Thursday night, Barry Manilow referred to himself as "your old friend Barry."
 * But our old friend Barry has developed some new interests (and a new blond hair color) since his popularity peaked in the 1970s. Perhaps a better name for him these days is Broadway Barry.
 * [ ... ]
 * Adding to the show's Vegas-y feel was Manilow's audience interaction and his crotch-grabbing dance move during "Copacabana."
 * [ ... ] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.204.123.42 (talk • contribs) 22:48, 7 December 2004 (original anonymous post-er of article, pre-editing) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.204.64.141 (talk • contribs) 23:16, 17 May 2005 (posted edited-down version)


 * Yeah; *that's* what I would construe as a primary source. Thanks to the anonymous poster (I've trimmed the quote down to avoid copyvio), and my apologies to those I was arguing with. Baylink 18:07, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I attended Barry's Vegas Show "Music and Passion" July 5th 2006, and I can verifiy that I did see him grab his crotch during the lyrics "show em what you got" (or something to that effect) on the Copa Cabana finale up on a raised platform. My take was that it was a bit toung in cheek, but I was surprised by it. (Birdsanctuary) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.133.166.87 (talk • contribs) 01:41, 8 July 2006

Image again
The next problem with that image is "what's the copyright status?". I've had an email (on the foundation mail) stating that the writer is the copyright holder and did not give permission for its use. As we have no source information and an active complaint, I have deleted it. If the source can be verified and shown to be suitably licensed, then we can replace it. Anyone got any relevant information? -- sannse (talk) 11:29, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Um, "screw it"? :-)  I'm certainly not going to fight for it. --Baylink 22:50, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

penthouse 8 years?
Just wondering where'd they get 8 years from? I checked and can't find no mention of it in that article. nevermind found it and just fixed it. a fan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.204.64.141 (talk • contribs) 15:59, 11 August 2005

ALBUMS
I have been making articles for each album...they all look pretty much the same; picture, track listing, summary, and side info box. If you have any suggestions as to something else I should add, let me know. Weatherman90 15:31, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Father's parentage
Please note whoever it is that keeps changing this from the correct version- Manilow's father was Harold Pincus who was son of Harry Pincus (who was Russian-Jewish) and Anna Sheehan (who was Irish). His grandparents separated and his grandmother remarried an Irish truckdriver named Kelliher- he was not Manilow's grandfather as some biographies have incorrectly stated. Arniep 21:40, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Here's proof that Barry isn't an atheist he actually answered some of my questions and this is one of them: me-Are you really an atheist now? Barry Manilow-I'm not an atheist. As you know, the definition of atheist is: Somebody who does not believe in God or other deities. I believe that there is someone, we know not who, that is doing something, we know not what. I believe in a "force,” an "All That Is.” But I know that there is some beautiful energy that only wants good for us and that we can access this energy whenever we want it. And I believe that we are all here to become brave enough to allow that energy through us so that we can help others and forgive everyone and ourselves. (Going by that I guess you can call Manilow a 'benevolent agnostic'.--MM)

Barry Manilow Album Template Needed
Could somebody signed up here create a template for Barry Manilow's albums. All but one have pages of their own. It would save space in the article by just having a template at the bottom. 67.98.154.56 (talk • contribs)

Upload These Publicity Photos To Wikipedia Commons, Please
67.98.154.56 14:13, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Barry Manilow 1973 album cover
 * Publicity photo of Barry Manilow with co-producer Ron Dante in recording studio)
 * Publicity still from The Third Barry Manilow Special (1979, "I Write The Songs" Emmy award-winning production number)
 * Publicity color still of Manilow and Bruce Sussman with 1997 Harmony cast
 * Oh Julie! 1982 album

Comments
I think that a "B" rating is correct for this article at this time. There are a number of improvements that can be made, writing being the first priority. Because the article is so long, tightening up the content will help. The first phrase in the "bio" section reads "Manilow was born to humble origins..." While a sympathetic start to a biography or fan site, not a good way to start an encyclopedia article. There is a lot of good material here to work with, it's a good time to make the prose sparkle. You might consider requesting a peer review to get more suggestions for improvement. Nightngle 18:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I do not change the rating, until the GAC review is over. The article is informative, but not thoroughly referenced. Let's see what the GAC reviewers will say, and then or even now a review could be helpful.--Yannismarou 09:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Failed GA nom
On several fronts, this article is good - it is accurate, broad in coverage, relatively NPOV (although there is a lot of puffy language - "Manilow got the century off to a good start" etc - not a lot, but glowing language is not the best.) However, I have two major bones of contention. While some of the images are good, the enormous collection of album covers at the bottom seems excessive, although I know other pages do this too. It just addes a tremendous amount of length. This is also true of the huge list of singles.

My biggest concern, however, is the sheer length of the prose. I feel that the article goes into excessive detail, mentioning every single he released, detailing every tour and special, and so on. Quoting Manilow in paragraph after paragraph, as though annotating the actual information in the article with Manilow's own comments, also tends to bloat it into overlength. The lead and table of contents are also too long. My suggestion would be for an editor or editors to cut this rather ruthlessly. You might also consider looking at John Lennon to see how another long article with a prolific subject deals with trying to incorporate everything at once. Good luck!- Dmz5 *Edits**Talk* 17:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This article had failed its GA nom... andreasegde 18:14, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Feedback
It needs more in-line citations on a lot of paragraphs—GA reviewers look kindly on that sort of thing. Also: Try and condense/join together some sentences. It looks like a trivia article at times; if things happened in the same year, you can put them together. It makes the prose flow a little more. (I have learned this from past experiences, BTW...) Good luck. andreasegde 18:39, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I have pulled a few paragraphs together. andreasegde 18:50, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The article has improved quite a bit since I reviewed it 2 weeks ago, thanks for considering my suggestions. It still has a bit too much play-by-play for my taste (and then on May 1, 1989, he released this single.  And then on May 30 1989 he recorded a duet with Cher.  etc etc) but it isn't quite as sprawling as it had been. - Dmz5  *Edits**Talk* 05:01, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

The Bob Dylan citation in the first paragraph is wrong - he never went up to Manilow and made a comment about his nose. A Rolling Stone magazine profile, written by David Wild & published sometime in the late 80s to early 90s, opens with an anecdote told by Manilow where Dylan came up to him and essentially said to keep up what he was doing and that he was inspiring. Dylan seemed dead serious, and Manilow was haunted by whether or not he was joking or not. (any collectors out there, please upload article) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.200.89.28 (talk) 07:31, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

GA
* Discography, and song and compositions does not meet WP:Summary style, list his studio albums, perhaps a double list done in Nightwish would work here, and list songs and comps under see also * References come after punctuation with no space. [70] should be .[70] * The first sentence says hes a singer, writer etc then the next sentence just says, he has sold over 45 million copies with no flow **In 1978, five of his albums were on the best-selling charts simultaneously, a feat equalled only by Frank Sinatra and Johnny Mathis. He has achieved a string of Billboard hit singles and multi-platinum albums and became the number one Adult Contemporary artist. He won the American Music Award for Favorite Pop/Rock Male Artist for three consecutive years. This section has no flow at all, same with the third * Manilow was born Barry Alan Pincus, shouldn't be bolded * When he was two years old, Harold, who himself was born to a Russian-Jewish father and Irish mother, and Edna divorced. This sentence isn't clear, did his parents divorce or, if its about Manilow say 'When Manilow was two etc' * He began his recording career, Paragraph ends talking about his relatives, say Manilow began his career * The musical became a success and ran for eight years. Reference? * See also: Dick Clark Productions shouldn't be stuck in the middle of the writing * 'hit' is used twenty times, 'popular' is used five time, success if used seven times Article needs better flow, a reference for each paragraph, remove POV and the trivia section and format some references to include all details. Refer to WikiProject Biography/Peer review for helpful critique, should also make an account if you're going to make decent contributions because if you want to get it further then GA people will remove the FA nomination. M3tal H3ad 09:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It has a trivia section, remove it or incorperate it into the body.
 * Reference #1 links to someones user page on Wikipedia...?
 * Lots of references are missing details, such as publisher (the website), date accessed, author(if there is one)
 * There are an awful lot of one sentence paragraphs, merge, remove or expand
 * As a youth Manilow idolized music conductors and composers such as Harold Arlen, Irving Berlin, Leonard Bernstein, Cole Porter and Nelson Riddle. Reference?
 * Manilow worked with Midler for four years from 1971 to 1975, Reference
 * Images are missing fair use rationales (see license tag for more info)

Grammar
Sometimes it takes someone that hasn't read an article to notice grammar mistakes. The second paragraph of the article has 2 incomplete sentences. The last paragraph under the "70s" section says something about somebody airing, but doesn't say who or what aired. I wouldn't know how to fix these grammatical mistakes but someone with knowledge of this article would so I'm pointing these out the masses :) --Mjrmtg 03:08, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The last sentence of the third paragraph under the "80s" section I believe the word "which" should be taken out. --Mjrmtg 03:12, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Barry Manilow year of birth
Most online sources have Barry Manilow born in 1946. Wikipedia has 1943. Can anybody confirm the actual year? 70.180.229.95 03:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC), Seussman

-- Concerning Barry Manilow's actual birth year, 1946 is actually bogus. * Entertainment Tonight confirmed this in 1990 when they showed Manilow's actual yearbook picture with "Eastern District High School Class of 1961" to the right of the picture. * When Manilow was 22-years old he had a question he wrote to an advice column published in Playboy's December 1965 issue, 10 years before he became famous. * Also on TV Guide Channel's Close Up special on Manilow in 2006 they said "June 17, 1943" as his birthday. * When Manilow was on Larry King Live in 2002 CNN LARRY KING LIVE Interview With Barry Manilow May 17, 2002 he confirmed 1943 is indeed correct when King asked him his age and he answered that he is in his LATE FIFTIES (that would be 58 years old- before his birthday- if born in 1943) instead of answering mid fifties (for 55 years old - again before his birthday- if born in 1946). It is safe to take Manilow's candid word about his age over any fake public relations press release or online page (including his official page) which displays the false year. I hope this helps. 67.98.154.56 17:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Information about latest changes.
Assuming they are not revoked or reversed by someone, I have made a number of changes to this page based on advice in these talk pages.

Trivia and medical information have been excised from the main secion altogether and put on a "child" page

A new header in the careers section has been added as his career really did start before he became known to the general public. This is ripe for additional information such as the tour he did of the Catskills or the fact that he was apparently doing accompanyist work but I have no solid references (Scooter where are you!?)

New album pictures have been added to each decade section examplifying his work with what are admittedly my personal favourites

TV appearances also now have their own section although I am tempted to put these in the trivia section as well.

Goinglogo 00:40, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Old discussions
Have been deleted

New discussions most welcome.

Goinglogo 00:34, 27 April 2007 (UTC) -- Note: Were restored shortly after by another user

Trivia page
Looks as though it is going to be deleted through nomination.

If there is any of it that someone wants to make sure it is kept, I am told that it needs to be incorporated into the main body in a way that flows.

There is lots of medical stuff on there, but my concern with the medical stuff is that there seems to be more detailed and referenced information about that than there is about his actual music.

Anyway, there are a couple of days left if anyone wants to "save" it.

Goinglogo 00:41, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I have closed the Afd discussion on the trivia page. It is bad named so it must be deleted. Yet some editors manifested the opinion that some of it's content may be worth including in the main article, so I will keep it as a temporary subpage of this talk page at Talk:Barry Manilow/Temp (See: Subpages). I'll keep it for about at least a week, and then I'll delete it. Please keep in mind that Biographies of living persons should not have trivia sections. Relevant notable sourced claims should be woven into the article. Trivia can go on the talk page as a staging ground. Eventualism is deprecated on BLP articles. (see: Biographies_of_living_persons - Nabla 22:36, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Temp page deleted - Nabla 15:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Split Two Sections into Two Articles
Per the discussion to delete that poorly formed page, that slopped various well sourced items on it on Manilow, to use most of the information instead of permanately delete it. I have added two splitsection templates over two sections I have temporarily restored to the main page so that the material can be moved to two articles that need to be created of the article with the suggested names.

All that has to be done is that the material, as is, be moved from the main page to the desired sections. Thank you. 67.98.154.56 13:46, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Any doubt about the noteworthiness of the Newsmaker article should remember that the contents of that article are about as newsworthy as Britney Spears shaving her head in 2007 or Marie Osmond having a nervous breakdown while driving her car and Frank Sinatra being linked to the mafia and also his son being kidnapped. All items for the Manilow article are referenced and fit for inclusion. 67.98.154.56 15:25, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I guess it means that any worthy material at the temporary trivia page is moved back into the article, so I may delete it. Right? - Nabla 01:20, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is ok to delete the temporary page. Could most of this Talk page also be archived in a permanent archive? It has a lot of old off article conversation on it that would be better in an archive then on the active Talk page. 141.150.252.220 18:05, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Temp page deleted. Archiving is fine, I guess. Take a look at How to archive a talk page, if you haven't already, don't forget to keep all usefull tags on the top of the page, and go ahead with it. Enjoy! - Nabla 15:40, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I oppose creating a separate page called "Manilow as Newsmaker". Wikipedia is not Wikinews.- Gilliam 02:48, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

"Medical" section
So he's been to the doctor a lot. Who the hell cares? How is this encyclopedic? Someone has suggested splitting it off to a separate article, but frankly I think the better destination is /dev/null. Just get rid of it. --Trovatore 02:09, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm with you. I shall delete this unencyclopedic section soon. 97.97.174.186 (talk) 02:16, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Somebody tell me why my constructive removal of the "Newsmaker" section keeps getting reverted by an "AutoBot"? Trovatore and I agree that the whole section is non-encyclopedic; whoever set the autobot should agree too. Please do not revert my next attempt to remove the irrelevant section; in the encyclopedic quality of this article, it's of absolutely no importance! 97.97.174.186 (talk) 02:32, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Supporter of Ron Paul?
Check this out69.115.196.213 00:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SOty3Jb2Vk
 * Look deeper. http://www.nytimes.com/ref/us/politics/2008_EG_FINANCES_SEARCH.html -- enter Manilow's name in the search box. Clinton, Edwards, Obama, Biden...and Paul. --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 04:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It's trivia; it shouldn't be in the article. But then again neither should at least half the existing material. The medical nonsense should be junked en masse -- how is it of encyclopedic interest that he once broke his nose? That goes for most of the rest of the "newsmaker" section, too. --Trovatore 04:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Block page from edits?
Due to a recent edit in the "Notes and References" section, I think this page should be protected from editing by either IPs or users. The edit made mention of a "homosexual deathstyle", and I had no choice but to revert the vandalism by clicking "Undo" in the page's edit history. This article should definitely be fully protected in order to prevent such disastrous edits; please try and alert this to the site administrators as soon as possible. Thank you. 65.34.126.252 19:35, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Fawning tone
The article's introduction is fawning, cringe-worthy, fan-like data. I know nothing about the man so I won't edit it, but somebody: please make this article encyclopaedic! Alpheus 12:30, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Watch out for bad "piping"
Somebody put some edits into this article to make the links go to incorrect pages. For example, the article stated that "he performed songs and duets in French, Italian, Portuguese and Japanese ", which displays as "he performed songs and duets in French, Italian, Portuguese and Japanese". So if you clicked on "French" you would be taken to the German language article rather than French language. Similarly, the article referred to one of Manilow's neighbors as Nancy Reagan -- if you clicked on "Nancy Reagan" it would take you to the Hillary Clinton article. I tried to fix these but there may be others I missed, so keep an eye out for them. --Metropolitan90 05:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
I removed a bizarre paragraph about an arrest for hoarding toner. I'm not familiar with Manilow at all, but I'm fairly sure that if he was arrested and made a statement about being an anarchist, it would have been reported somewhere other than Wikipedia. --Henchperson 02:38, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

POV all over the place
There is very little evidence to support the wild speculation and controversial statements here. There are few if any links that back up grandiose POV statements such as record sales, the Clive Davis relationship (which has been detailed elsewhere as controversial), the Royal Albert Hall fiasco, inappropriate references to his sex life that are posted to discredit him,and the Harmony musical among many others. This article needs a complete reworking of notes and references. 24.11.191.208 (talk) 19:43, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Middle Name
Does he still use "Alan" because in the third Barry Manilow special he claims that he has no middle name. Did he drop it when he changed his last name when he was thirteen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.246.178 (talk) 10:35, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

LGBT activist?
The last sentence in the newsmaker section states that he has been involved with gay rights organizations. Can anyone expand on that? Does he qualify for being included in the LGBT rights activists from the United States category? Werdnawerdna (talk) 03:55, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Playboy letter
The passage about the Playboy letter in the Biography section appears to be taken FAR out of context. In Wikipedia it sounds like Manilow is agonizing over keeping his marriage, but according to a biography http://books.google.com/books?id=DpMi8lbQ3HUC&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=manilow+%22over+and+over+and+over%22&source=bl&ots=7BX7HTZytr&sig=fCCaEZh11bOjOF3gMfQs6cYdfeo (sorry for the crappy Amazon URL, this is Page 45 of "Barry Manilow" by Patricia Butler) it says that he was agonizing over sticking with a secure job vs. pursuing creative work. I think this needs to be fixed. -Rolypolyman (talk) 02:22, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Dylan
"In 1988, Bob Dylan stopped Manilow at a party, hugged him and said, "Stop what you're doing, man. We're all sickened by you."

I'm guessing this is not accurate, according to the Manilow biography by Patricia Butler he actually said "Don't stop what you're doing, man. We're all inspired by you", which seems an unlikely, suprising and possibly insincere comment, but there it is. Not sure whether this anecdote is well placed in the introduction, but I corrected and referenced it. Grcaldwell (talk) 22:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Awful biography of living person
This article is terribly written. It is nearly an impossible read. We don't need an in paragraph form of his discography when it's included at the end of the article. A brief mention of some of the highlights of that discography is appropriate by not a line by line discussion of each one.

I've tried to eliminate a bunch of uncited claims, original research, and other garbage, but I don't have time now to fully rewrite this.

The is also a large amount of Original Research, which is prohibited by Wikipedia policy. If you are searching for Barry Manilow's political contributions through primary source materials, then that is not appropriate and shouldn't be included. However, if the New York Times says that Barry donated to "so-and-so" then that can be included. Also things like searching Ancestry.com database birth and death records is not appropriate because it's original research. If someone is born or died on a particular day or is a a parent or grandparent of someone and it is relevant and important enough to include in Wikipedia then there would exist a number of independent third parties that are reliable sources that you should be able to cite. Unless you cite the WP:RS reliable source instead of your primary original research you can't include it here.

Gossip sites such as "TMZ" and "gossipmagazine" do not qualify as reliable sources especially for articles that are biographies of living persons which WP:BLP have special rules to protect their subjects.

Also anything that is on a "blogspot" or a personal blog should not be used as a reference for anything on Wikipedia (except in the rare instance when the subject has their own blog). In this article we have a number of regular news articles that have been copied from original sources and put onto a private blog where they can be accessed. This is a clear copyright violation and Wikipedia rules do not allow us to purposely link to sites that are clearly violating the copyrights of other people. You must provide a link to the original source, not a copy of it on someone's blog. If there isn't a link to the story online then you can't include a link to it and you'll just have to leave the reference but remove the link to copyrighted materials. Vivaldi (talk) 07:36, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Jewish?
Really? Isn't he an athiest? 82.36.211.254 (talk) 21:33, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Calling him 'Jewish' is a reference to his ethnicity rather than to his religious beliefs. 95.147.201.79 (talk) 00:26, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

A religion is not an ethnicity. If that is the case then you might as well call Muslims and ethnic group. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.8.197.169 (talk) 17:09, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

a religion is not an ethnicity. if that were the case then you might as well call paula abdul "muslim" just because she is arab.

besides, manilow was not even RAISED as jewish. he has mentioned that both his jewish mother and catholic step-father were "non-practicing". i am surprised to read here he even HAD a bar mitzvah -- is this verifiable?! did he also have a confirmation on the side??

other than that, i too believe he has stated that he is an atheist. or skeptical agnostic, at least. 209.172.25.173 (talk) 23:29, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

You have missed the point. Jews are a race as well as a religious group, so the adjective 'Jewish' is ambiguous. 146.90.33.227 (talk) 00:24, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Exactly so. 'Jewish' means ethnic group, it is just that almost all Jewish peole follow Judaism (there are some Jewish atheists).