Talk:Barry Williams (spree killer)

Name
Barry Street's real name was Barry Williams (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/live-serial-killer-barry-williams-7888058), Harry Street was the name given to him as a new identity when he was released from jail. Suggest making a new article under "Barry Williams (Spree kiler) ? Gbickerdike (talk) 12:23, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Moved. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:28, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * However, he's now known as Harry Street, and has pleaded guilty to new crimes. If it were an entertainer who'd changed names during his career, the article's name would probably be what he is known by now; Is this situation any different in that respect because he's a criminal? Surely what is most relevant is what he is now known as? Jim Michael (talk) 12:33, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Per WP:Self-identification we should use the name he uses himself, including other names in the article, similar to the Charles Salvador article. That name seems to be Harry Street. Martin 4 5 1  18:24, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * We don't know what identity he now uses. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:10, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * All the recent media sources identify him as Harry Street; some of them also state his previous name. There is no evidence of him having changed his name again. Jim Michael (talk) 20:53, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The media reports from last week call him Harry Street, with no mention of his previous name. Martin 4 5 1  21:20, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * They were legally prevented from using his real name until after the verdict. Reports subsequent to his new conviction all use it. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:31, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
 * His name is Harry Street; that's his identity now - it's not merely an alias. Barry Williams is his previous name. The comparison with Charles Salvador is the most similar case to this that I can think of. Jim Michael (talk) 17:17, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

The sentence remarks from Judge Blair from here refer to the case as R -v- Harry Street. The pertinent sentences are ''The defendant, Harry Street, is now aged 70. In 1978, when he was called Barry Williams, and .....'' i.e. he is now called Harry Street. Martin 4 5 1  17:31, 8 October 2014 (UTC) (GA Reviewer) Do any of you know - or can you verify - that he legally changed his name or if his new name is merely an alias? We can go either way, we have many articles on people's most famous name, which is not always their legal name. Middle initials are used on many disambiguation pages, it is actually rather common. Montanabw (talk) 05:36, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * While it's possible, in the UK, to use a deed poll, no legal process is required for a change of name; one can use any name one likes, so long as there is no intent to defraud. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:06, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * His name was stated in court during the recent case as Harry Street, so that must be his actual name, not merely an alias. I haven't seen it stated whether or not he changed it by deed poll. During the recent prosecution of Dave Lee Travis, the court used his real name David Patrick Griffin - yet we still have his article under the name he's best known as. I don't see the case for keeping this article at its current title when he is no longer known as Barry Williams. Middle names/initials are only used in article titles when the person is known that way, which is not the case here. Jim Michael (talk) 21:59, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Death place + age
The cited sources quite clearly states that Williams was "admitted to a general hospital" before he died; colleagues should not therefore be stating his death place as Ashworth Hospital. Similarly, the source says he was "aged 70 when he appeared in court earlier this year"; not at the time of his death. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:05, 28 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I see a lot of people keep seeking precision for death date, but you are correct that absent a birth date or at least a RS that affirmatively states his age at death, we cannot engage in speculation, OR or SYNTH. As the biography of a recently deceased person, WP:BLP still basically applies.   Montanabw (talk)  00:18, 2 January 2015 (UTC)


 * this article does say in its body text "Street, aged 70 when he appeared in court earlier this year..." so 70 is probably accurate, given that the only other option is age 69.  Montanabw (talk)  05:13, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Recent reversion of editing
So, I made an effort to try to improve the article recently to help make it better, but it was recently reverted by another editor. Only, I wish to know if a full reversion was needed, or if they could have noted that some of my work was good enough to not need to be reverted. See, I have some issues with how the information is, now that its reverted:


 * 1) Why is information regarding his disputes with the Burkitt family not part of "!978 Incident"? Surely it should be there, since that is what can be put forward as a precursor to what eventually became the infamous incident that saw him kill five people, three of them being the family.
 * 2) If he was diagnosed with schizophrenia, while is that mentioned in release? Surely that would have been uncovered by the psychiatrists during his trial, and thus be mentioned there.
 * 3) If it states he was released in 1994, while does the 2014 quote by the NHS spokesperson state he was released in 1993 by the tribunal?
 * 4) What behaviour did he exhibit to the neighbours he had before he was arrested in 2013? Surely that is worth a mention. According to the special episode by Channel 5's documentary series The Nightmare Neighbour Next Door, his victims in that incident made references in interviews to being harassed with banging on their walls, verbal threats, and Street following them to a new home. Is that not notable for this article?
 * 5) Should not the second gun he used in the 1978 incident be referenced as an illegal weapon, considering he was licenced to own only one semi-automatic gun?

I just have some concerns that these parts aren't good, and need improving. GUtt01 (talk) 21:30, 19 May 2018 (UTC)


 * 1) The disputes with the Burkitt family are in the 'Background' (i.e. "precursor") section. We don't know that they happened in 1978 and not before.
 * 2) We don't know when he was diagnosed. Your "surely" is supposition - do you have a citation for it?
 * 3) Please see sic
 * 4) Again, a citation is needed.
 * 5) This was addressed in the good article review; see above.

Your edits removed several key points from the lede, contrary to WP:Lede; introduced statements not in the cited sources; removed cited quotations from those involved; and introduced unclear or misleading language such as "...severe mental affliction, in which he was detained..." and " a review by police ... as a result of him living under the identity of Harry Street". Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:52, 19 May 2018 (UTC)