Talk:Bartholomew Roberts/Archive 1

Vandalism
There appears to be some vandalism in the last paragraph in the section titled Brazil and the Carribean July 1719 - May 1720. 192.197.71.189 16:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * A couple of us have been trying to tackle constant vandalism... Hopefully the new restrictions will put an end to vandals ruining the encyclopedia. Chris Weimer (talk) 03:07, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Confusing statement
In the "Early Life" section of this entry, the slave ship Bart is third mate of is referred to both as the "Princess of London" and the "Princess of London". Based on the discussion article below this one which states that "the Princess was taken at Anamaboe," I'm guessing that the ship's actual name is the Princess and that it originally sailed out of London, NOT that it's name is actually the Princess of London. If I'm incorrect, feel free to change this back. MoogleDan 16:17, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Spelling and naming
In this encyclopedia entry, places which still exist today are given their modern names rather than the name or spelling they were known as in A General History. For example, on page 230 Defoe relates that Roberts was born at Newey-bagh.  This place still exists today but is currently known as Casnewydd-Bach [Little Newcastle]. On page 175, the Princess was taken at Anamaboe which was then a well-known slave port on the Gold Coast. That place, now a fishing port, still exists today but is currently known as Anomabu in Ghana. Cape Lopez, mentioned on page 224 et seq., still exists today in Gabon. (Its French name Cap Lopez.) Also note that in Defoe's day, Guiney did not refer to the country currently known as Guinea -- or to any one country -- but rather to the entire coastal region of West Africa running from Senegal at the north to Gabon at the south, which includes present-day Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia, the Ivory Coast, Ghana, Togo, Benin, Nigeria, Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea.

Reference in Treasure Island
Long John Silver, one of the main character of Treasure_Island (the most celebrated novel about pirates, by Robert Louis Stevenson) says he was a pirate on the Roberts' Royal Fortune. Should we write that? gala.martin
 * Yes, please add it! --Awiseman 03:47, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * This is a mistake. Silver was treated by a surgeon who later served on the Royal Fortune, but Silver himself did not sail with Roberts, only with Edward England and the fictional Captain Flint. Pirate Dan 16:27, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Largest fleet
It seems strange to say he was the most successful pirate for having 456 vessels, when Ching Shih had 2,000. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.47.119.57 (talk • contribs).
 * Ching Shih wasn't really part of the Golden Age of Piracy, which is mostly Carribean. Maybe he should be added --Awiseman 20:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Roberts is considered successful for robbing more than 400 vessels. Ching Shih had almost 2,000 vessels in her fleet, but no secondary source (at least in English) says how many vessels she managed to rob with that fleet.  A difficult comparison to make in any case, since like many Chinese pirates Ching Shih plundered as much from coastal and river villages as from other vessels.


 * A reasonable argument can be made for Ching Shih as most succesful pirate ever, but by the measure of ships plundered, Roberts has the highest known total. - - Pirate Dan 16:33, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Bad link
The first external link refers to a fictional book written by a crackpot who claimed to have channeled Roberts in a seance to record his memoirs. That doesn't belong here. --Zeality 07:10, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I have removed it. Rhion 19:29, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

How dare you call the scribe a crackpot! First of all she never said the info came to her in a seance, she said it was channeled to her, mentally, which was her way to describe compulsive writing that seemed to possess her almost immediately after she moved into her Mullaghmore (Eire) home, & even though an accomplished typist, & knowing shorthand, she had to write in longhand, but not with a modern writing instrument. At first she grabbed her Uniball pen she loved & a college ruled pad but didn't get very far. The next day she went on the hunt because she was compelled to find ink, laid paper & a feather she could carve into a pen. After which, not only did she fill a couple of dozen A4 size sheets a day, the handwriting was not her own, the sentence structure and the spelling was old world (British English & her, American,) Curious to find out why she was doing this she started to investigate, the spelling, grammar, etc. It was like that of Tom Jones, a Foundling. In regards her new writing materials, she, with zero experience, carved the plumb into a great pen that could not only fill an entire A4 page with one dip into the ink, the same pen, never again being trimmed, wrote the entire book. This woman, who was not an artist, drew beautifully ships & surprisingly accurate maps, in Ink, in the book. She also drew a life-like sketch of the Captain. ALL these things were accomplished by a person who was not a writer, artist or quill carver. So consider this... if I told you to draw a Tall ship, or a map of the West Indies, or even just one island, I doubt if there are many who could do it even if they were looking at a picture, and even fewer who could draw such in ink, without mistakes. To this day this woman does not take credit for any of those things, but rather simply states she did it to help the Captain set the record straight.

AND NOW SOME SIMPLE FACTS!  It was this person whom you have insulted who did the research that put Roberts' exploits into a chronically ordered timeline, which brought the number of ships that before her only stated 400 ships taken, & is now routinely numbered at 470. This same person is the one who spent months doing her own research in person, going to several Public Record offices & the like, e.g. Kew, England & the Castle in Haverfordwest, Wales searching written records, e.g. ships logs & personal letters by others who were there, e.g. Cap'n Rogers of the Summersett, newspapers, etc, as opposed to the numerous other authors who main research seems to be limited to books. This same person is the one whose research discovered the May 17th, 1690 birth date that everyone is now using, & also pointed out the simple issue regarding his name. Like a child could not have deduced that Bartholomew was simply his middle name, dropping his first name, like such a thing was never been done before or since. This person also the one who mapped out Roberts' entire voyage, locating each & every place he went. As for Channeling &/or Automatic Writing, these are both documented facts. The simple fact that the first book, more or less what many call a a rough draft was not edited, but presented as originally written. Now if this person had been a Teacher or Professor, or noted Historian of some sort, she would have been taken seriously, but then strange occurrences do not go looking for scholars or the like, but search for other attributes & when such is found, said person is likely to be utilized. Why didn't this person seek to have their work published in the conventional manner, the reason was a simple one. With a family history of regarding a particular illness in her family, none of those who having it before her having lived to their 50 birthday, she had no expectation of living long enough to fulfill the wish of the author which drove her to write for 12 hour days for weeks without rest, a happening she did not understand until extensive research led to the final conclusion. There's no other motive for her efforts. She was not a writer, nor did she profess to such nor wish to be. She was simply do another's bidding. So until YOU can prove otherwise, do not judge & then condemn that which you do not understand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.234.216.164 (talk) 06:50, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Why the addition to the "LGBT people from the United Kingdom" category?
84.144.85.20 added this page to the "LGBT people from the United Kingdom" category. However, I see no reference or cause to take this action. I recommend it be removed from this category. &mdash; SMULaw09 |  (talk) 09:41, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

LGBT Category
Ok, I've waited more than a month with no objections to my removal of the LGBT tag. I'm going to remove it. &mdash; SMULaw09 |  (talk) 05:40, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * There was a book published claiming that Roberts was actually a woman in disguise. Not the slightest evidence was offered, and the theory has no consensus behind it.  Given that Roberts drew up articles specifically assessing the death penalty to anyone who smuggled a woman aboard in disguise, the idea that he was a woman himself is absurd.  You were right to remove the category.  --Pirate Dan 04:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

A BBC Wales radio programme suggested that as Roberts did not participate in the revelries at brothels, or take advantage of black women on the west African coast, that suggested that he might be homosexual. I think there is a book being published about him, elaborating this theory, written by Richard Sanders soon. Sars1983 02:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC) Sarah

It might have to be mentioned somewhere the homosexuality of Bart Roberts as said in Bart Roberts bedmate and possibly some other sources some one might want to look further... --OPeixe(talk) 02:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

You've GOT to be freaking kidding me! Because he didn't participate in the revelry he must have been homosexual? That is the he lamest reasoning I have EVER seen! Goes right up there with, "What? He's fifty years old and never been married? Yup! Must be queer!" Give me a break! --71.235.188.9 (talk) 04:41, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Infobox
This article uses the Biography infobox. Why don't we use the Pirate infobox? If no one objects I will make this change in about a week when I get back in town from a wikibreak. Or someone else can do it before than. Deflagro 19:11, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Newfoundland section - ship names?
I may have missed it, but I got confused with what Roberts 2 ships are called at this point - Fortune, Good Fortune and Royal Fortune. It seems after he renames one, the old name is used again later in the paragraph. Could someone just make sure that it reads write as I may just be confusing myself. 76.99.86.34 (talk) 01:13, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No, you're right. According to that section, he starts with the Fortune. Then he takes another ship and calls it Good Fortune, which is soon renamed Royal Fortune. So in 1720 his ships are Fortune and Royal Fortune. Then, suddenly, in the last paragraph, they are called Good Fortune and Royal Fortune. That cannot be right. 76.118.227.30 (talk) 15:10, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Bartholomew Roberts/Bartolomeu Português
"Roberts' flag was one of several taken from real-life accounts and used in the film Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End. Also in the film, Barbossa says that the pirates' code was first set down by "Morgan and Bartholomew" - referring to Henry Morgan and Bartholomew Roberts. However, as Roberts was only six years old when Henry Morgan died, it is unlikely that the two were actually acquainted."

Barbossa is referring to Bartolomeu Português who is the first to established a Pirate's Code with Morgan. I prefer not edit this page, i just give informations. Sorry for my pitiful english. ^^' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.155.26.132 (talk) 17:48, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

What did he do with all his captured ships?
Especially in the Newfoundland section, the article talks about how many ships he's captured in many different places.

"Roberts raided the harbour of Ferryland, capturing a dozen vessels"

"On 21 June he attacked the larger harbour of Trepassey, sailing in with black flags flying...Roberts had captured 22 ships"

"By 25 October they were at sea again, off St. Lucia, where they captured up to 15 French and English ships in the next three days"

What did he do with these ships after he captured them? He couldn't possibly have had a large enough crew to command all the additional ships for him. Did he sink them after looting them? If he looted them, how did he fit all that cargo on his ship? If he sold them, where did he sell them and how did he find a friendly port to sell them at, as it would be obvious he had stolen them? Saying he captured them is somewhat ambiguous, as he is only described commanding one or two ships at a time. 99.159.254.25 (talk) 02:03, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Although Captain Roberts did take possession of a Bristol Galley and mounted 16 guns on board her, capturing does not mean taking possession, but rather the conquest thereof. As for cargo, the two and twenty ships were not merchants loaded with offerings.

Killing the governor
During this time, Roberts caught the Governor of Martinique, who was sailing aboard a man-of-war. Robert's ship pulled up next to the man-of-war pretending to be a French merchant ship, and offered information on the location of Captain Roberts before suddenly attacking it, spraying the warship with cannon and small arms fire, after which the pirates boarded it and took it over using pistols and cutlasses. The Governor was caught and promptly hanged on the yardarm of the Royal Fortune.

What was the governor's name? According to List of colonial and departmental heads of Martinique this would be one "de Hurault" but we don't have an article on him or even a full name. What was the name of the Man of War he was caught on? Was this an otherwise notable ship? What did Roberts do with the ship after capturing the governor? A Man of War is quite the prize for a pirate to have taken, so I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned. And finally, was there some reason Roberts had it out for this governor? Presumably he had some serious motivation to attack such a powerful warship. Someguy1221 (talk) 07:23, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Original research?
Just reverted this recent contribution at the end of the first paragraph:

There was also a poem about him that was: Barti Ddu o Gasney bach, y morwr tal a chwerthiniad iach, yfo fudd y llyw, ar y llong ar criw, barti ddu o gasnewy bach. It means Black Bart from Little Newport, the tall seaman with a healthy/hearty laugh, he'll have the helm, of the ship and the crew, Black Bart from Little Newport! According to my book, he died by got shot in his neck by Captain Ogle.

According to which book? If you wish to add this to the page, please cite your sources. (Formatting the text encyclopedically and adding it in the appropriate part of the article wouldn't hurt either.) 13.8.125.11 (talk) 06:26, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

The Poem should be written:

Barti Ddu o Gasnewy’ Bach,

Y morwr tal a’r chwerthiniad iach,

Efô fydd y llyw ar y llong a’r criw,

Barti Ddu o Gasnewy’ Bach.

Correct English translation of the poem is: "Black Bart from Little Newcastle, the tall sailor with the merry laugh, he’ll be at the helm of his ship and his men: Black Bart from Little Newcastle."

The above stated book contained the above ballad in which he called Captain John Bartholomew Roberts ‘Barti Ddu,' which is Black Bart in English.

As for Your Book of which I know not the title, to correct you, Captain Roberts was killed by a round of grape shot which tore out his throat. This happened within the first few minutes of the battle. Grape Shot is a type of load that is fired from a cannon. Instead of a cannon ball, a canvas bad filled with metal balls which, when assembled, resemble a cluster of grapes. When shot out of a cannon it's like buckshot, only much larger. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.234.216.164 (talk) 07:40, 3 March 2016 (UTC)