Talk:Baruch College/Archives/2015

Neutrality
This seems to read like promo material. The recognition of rankings from U.S. News and others becomes insipid. Some needs to take the peppiness of this down a notch or two...

Jarfingle 06:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Five years later, I definitely agree. (And I have no connection with Baruch or its rival schools.) 71.103.149.123 (talk) 00:59, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

DO NOT DELETE/REVERSE THIS THIS PAGE WITHOUT DISCUSSION
This version seems better than previous version

Disagree!
Baruch is underrated. The Largest Business School in America can't have such a small niche on wiki Other Colleges have posted their Rankings..Baruch should be given an equal chance to Please try to edit the information posted rather than remove it —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.80.158.200 (talk) 10:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

I am not here to agree or disagree on Baruch's rankings. However, just because the b-school is the largest (in terms of student body?) doesn't necessarily make it outstanding. It may mean that Baruch has a very high acceptance rate, is much cheaper than other area schools, and is easier (in terms) of curriculum. I'm not saying it is, I'm just trying to show that larger doesn't mean much. Obviously, it's a CUNY school, so I would expect it to be considerably cheaper than Fordham, Columbia, NYU and Pace. How about looking at average GMAT scores, starting salary for recent grads, prominent faculty, schools facilities, recruiting on campus, etc... Additionally, can the rankings be verified? Just a thought. --24.189.35.249 (talk) 01:22, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree that Baruch is underrated
I heard its a great business college for the bucks. This college should get same chance as other colleges.

Large scale reversion
The large scale reversion was needed, as the copyright problems with this article were very severe. The first copyright violation was this September 2005 edit, which took material from About the Zicklin School of Business, some of which was still there in the version I dealt with. Andjam 12:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

March 12, 2007 vandalism to the Wikipedia Polynomial article: Listing "yeskl;jlfjdsljhflkahshfiwohfdkls;FHODS" under the SEE ALSO section! Larry R. Holmgren 01:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

It was ripped...
"Our College..."

College pages need an overall policy. I imagine most college wiki articles have this type of promo copy in them. This copy is not helpful to the reader. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.89.71.11 (talk) 21:01, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

Fair use rationale for Image:Baruch.png
Image:Baruch.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:13, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Baruchbearcats.jpg
Image:Baruchbearcats.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 06:50, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Baruchhead.jpg
Image:Baruchhead.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 06:52, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Non Neutral POV Removal
I removed the statement "Many of the students who attend Baruch College today are amazing scholars with an unbelievably high gpa. These students simply want to pursue a business degree at the best public business school in nyc!" This statement is non neutral POV. Burnsie510 (talk) 01:06, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Baruch College School of Public Affairs
I'm suggesting to add a new page for the School of Public Affairs at Baruch College. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Baruch OCM (talk • contribs) 16:15, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Rankings suspect
"The College was ranked as a Top Public #3 University" -> Gives the impression that Baruch is a the third best public university in the US, which is inaccurate. The ranking needs to be qualified so it makes sense (is it only among small schools? etc.). Also, the entire introduction has nothing but ranking data. You might want to check out other university pages and see what a reasonable introduction looks like. You can move the ranking data to the ranking section. "Program was ranked #5, surpassing Columbia, Cornell, and UC Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, UCLA and University of Michigan in 2011 Quant Network Ranking" -> I've never seen someone mention a ranking and then mention 7 schools ranked below it. Furthermore, the ranking was generated by a Baruch alumnus for a website with a substantial amount of Baruch advertisements. It seems that such a conflict of interest should be disclosed. I understand the desire to present your school in the best possible light, but misleading and excessive ranking statements make it appear like the student body is insecure. Being accurate and professional about the data presented would reflect better on the school. 140.180.191.228 (talk) 17:39, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * This is unfortunately common in university articles. I agree with your points (came here to check if anyone voiced them already), and have addressed the intro and the sentence listing 7 competitors. — DMCer  ™  23:35, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Arrests

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/baruch_students_arrested_tbZhOGneVwDA4ZZ6QH2KoK CrazyAces489 (talk) 01:40, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

notable faculty

 * 1) We normally list only full time faculty, not those distinguished people who may be associated or adjunct faculty who may be associated with the school in some manner and give an occasional lecture. This is best indicated by giving their formal academic ranks in the list.
 * 2) We never include anyone in these lists unless they are so notable that they have a Wikipedia article about them, or are clearly qualified for one by the sourced information given.

I'm going to quickly check if I have time, but otherwise I shall remove every name that does not have an article showing clearly htey meet the requirements.  DGG ( talk ) 15:56, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

copyvio
Much recent material added here has been previously published in newspaper sources or on the college website. The mews material is never acceptable. For the web material, even if one represents the college and therefore own the copyright and are willing to give us permission according to the full formal procedure at WP:DCM--a permission that gives permission to anyone to use the material & modify it however they please, even for commercial purposes-- the tone will not be encyclopedic and the material will not be suitable. The information must just describe the program, not advocate for it.

We immediately remove all copyvios even if this means reducing the article to just a stub sating the college exists. I'm going to be checking today. If I remove anything as copyvio, anyone adding it back will probably be blocked from contributing further. 'm an admin here, and I have the ability to do this & the willingness to do it when needed. As a widely known free resource, we do not compromise about copyright.  DGG ( talk ) 15:56, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Grew "drastically"?
I just noticed the paragraph beginning "In the CUNY years, Baruch grew drastically". This term is used more commonly with negative connotations which I suspect is not the intention here. Should this be "grew rapidly"?Andrew Hennigan (talk) 20:17, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Suggested Edits
I am working on behalf of Baruch College to improve the college's entry. In keeping with WP:COI, I will not edit the article directly, but rather will suggest changes on the article's Talk page. My purpose is to correct inaccuracies and make the entry more encyclopedic, while honoring WP:NPOV guidelines. For the most part I am suggesting deletions, rather than new language.

These are the edits I propose:

Factbox -- delete unsourced and inaccurate Motto. The College does not have a motto; "The American Dream Still Works" is an old advertising tag line, no longer in use.

Lead Paragraph -- delete sentence beginning "CUNY graduates include..." Unsourced and misleading; even though it says "CUNY graduates" the placement implies they are Baruch graduates.

Also delete the next sentence: "The Zicklin School of Business has grown to become the largest collegiate school of business in the nation." Unsourced; "largest collegiate school" is vague and undefined.

In the first sentence of the History section, change "the founding of the Free Academy" to "the 1847 founding of the Free Academy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_University_of_New_York#Founding

In the Academics section, delete the final paragraph, beginning "Though the college is often recognized..." Fails WP:INDISCRIMINATE; this is sourced only to Baruch’s own site (not a third-party source), and indicates this is a research project in the Psychology Department. There is no justification for elevating it above countless research projects in dozens of other departments.

Delete the entire Partnerships section. Fails WP:INDISCRIMINATE; Baruch has dozens of partnerships, some of them more substantial than these. There is no justification for elevating these above other partnerships. Further, the Baruch College Campus High School reference is unsourced, and the Zicklin-JP Morgan reference is sourced only to the university’s website (not third-party).

Delete the Student center subsection. The source supplied (a link to the student newspaper homepage) does not support the text, which is outdated and inaccurate.

In the Athletics section, delete everything after the first paragraph, beginning with "The men's volleyball team..." Unsourced; undated and/or outdated; fails WP:NOR.

Under Admissions, delete "Master in Financial Engineering" subsection. Fails WP:INDISCRIMINATE; no justification for providing outdated admissions data for one of dozens of degree programs.

Also delete the immediately following "Zicklin School of Business" subsection, with its list of GMAT scores. Unsourced; fails WP:INDISCRIMINATE; no justification for providing undated GMAT scores for graduate programs in one of the College's three schools.

I have suggestions for additional changes to improve the entry, but as this is my first attempt at requesting edits via WP:COI, I will stop for now. I welcome any feedback on the merits of these changes, or on the manner of suggesting them.

Lex 1503 (talk) 20:30, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Lex 1503 - I have implemented all of these changes with the exception of "the 1847 founding of the Free Academy." as I'm unclear of the source to support this change. This is a complimentary service. All future edits require payment of one barnstar for each 15 edits, or fraction thereof, proposed. LavaBaron (talk) 08:43, 28 August 2015 (UTC)


 * LavaBaron, you've been barnstarred! Lex 1503 (talk) 14:45, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * LOL, I was actually just kidding about the barnstar, Lex 1503, but thank you anyway! LavaBaron (talk) 16:29, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Here's a source, btw, for the founding of the Free Academy in 1847. Lex 1503 (talk) 20:35, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ Altamel (talk) 17:31, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Requested Edit
Someone with vandalistic intent has added Martin Shkreli at the beginning of Baruch's Notable Alumni. I would argue that one publicized scandal doesn't make him important enough for the list. If he's going to be there, clearly he should be alphabetized properly. I won't make direct changes to the page, in keeping with WP:COI.Lex 1503 (talk) 19:37, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ samtar (msg) 16:06, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 4 one external links on Baruch College. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080603034438/http://zicklin.baruch.cuny.edu:80/about/campus/subotnick.html to http://zicklin.baruch.cuny.edu/about/campus/subotnick.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080622072403/http://www.baruch.cuny.edu:80/spa/Centers/CenteronEquality,PluralismandPolicy.jsp to http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/spa/Centers/CenteronEquality,PluralismandPolicy.jsp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070406145053/http://www.baruch.cuny.edu:80/spa/Centers/CenterforInnovationandLeadershipinGovernment.jsp to http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/spa/Centers/CenterforInnovationandLeadershipinGovernment.jsp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080512022004/http://www.baruch.cuny.edu:80/studentaffairs/StudentLife/clubs/undergrad.htm to http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/studentaffairs/studentlife/clubs/undergrad.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 11:34, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I have posted some problems and suggested edits regarding this, below.Lex 1503 (talk) 21:04, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Suggested revisions to rankings
Me again, working on behalf of Baruch College under WP:COI to request edits to the Baruch College listing. The information in the current Rankings section is all out of date, unsourced or otherwise flawed. I suggest removing everything in that section and replacing it with the carefully footnoted, up-to-date text below. Let me know if you have any questions, and thanks.


 * In its annual "Social Mobility Index" for 2015, CollegeNet ranked Baruch #1 in the country, among more than 900 schools considered, in providing social mobility for students.


 * Washington Monthly ranked Baruch #1 in the Northeast in 2015 in providing "Best Bang for the Buck."


 * Entrepreneur magazine and Princeton Review ranked Baruch #6 in 2015 among colleges for its undergraduate entrepreneurship program, and #9 for the graduate school.


 * Forbes ranked Baruch #14 in the country among "Best Value Schools" for 2015.


 * U.S. News & World Report ranked Baruch College 32nd in 2015 among Regional Universities in the North. The magazine also ranked Baruch (in the North region) #4, Most Ethnically Diverse; #6, Top Public Schools; #1, Least Debt. Baruch's Zicklin School of Business ranked #3 among business schools in New York City, behind Columbia and New York University.

Lex 1503 (talk) 18:57, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Everything checked-out here, I've implemented this edit. You may want to format the refs for full citation syntax, though, which you can do as a COI editor as it's purely a functional edit at this point. LavaBaron (talk) 05:39, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

More requested edits
A bot recently cruised through and added Wayback Machine links for some dead links in the Academic centers and Student Life sections. I'm not sure using such a bot on an entry about a "living" subject is a good idea -- the links go to content that is outdated by definition. Certainly a Wayback Machine link makes sense for a lot of historical entries, but this is now linking to outdated info, while in three of the four cases there is a current link.


 * For this reason, I suggest adding nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot as the bot owner suggests above, to keep the bot off the page.


 * A current link for the Golden Key under Student Organizations is http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/studentaffairs/StudentLife/clubs/undergrad.htm, and I think this should replace the Wayback link

There are "multiple issues" with the list of Academic Centers. There are three Wayback links, and I'm providing current links for two of them. The third, the Center for Innovation and Leadership in Government, is not active and has no homepage on the Baruch website, and I ask that it be removed.

The centers also are not properly alphabetized, and some of the references link to weird places. I also suggest adding five "institutes" to the list, and renaming the section "Academic centers & institutes", as there is no meaningful difference between a center and an institute at Baruch. The roster of centers and institutes is at http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/academic/

Here is the section as I suggest it should read:

Academic centers & institutes

 * Baruch College Survey Research
 * CCI - Corporate Communication International
 * CUNY Institute for Demographic Research
 * Center for Educational Leadership
 * Center on Equality, Pluralism and Policy
 * Lawrence N. Field Center for Entrepreneurship
 * Jewish Studies Center
 * Steven L. Newman Real Estate Institute
 * New York Census Research Data Center
 * Center for Nonprofit Strategy and Management
 * Center for the Study of Business and Government (CSBG)
 * The Bernard L. Schwartz Communication Institute at Baruch College is an academic service unit and faculty development program. It supports educational technology and communications instructional projects in the college.
 * The STARR Career Development Center, named after the Starr Foundation, provides career services to all Baruch College undergraduates and alumni with bachelor's degrees from Baruch.
 * Subotnick Financial Center: The Subotnick Financial Services Center, opened in 2000, provides a simulation of practical trading experience. Its centerpiece is the Bert W. and Sandra Wasserman Trading Floor.
 * Center for Teaching and Learning
 * Computer Center for Visually Impaired People
 * Weissman Center for International Business
 * Robert Zicklin Center for Corporate Integrity

Disclaimer: I am working on behalf of Baruch College to improve this entry, following WP:COI guidelines. Lex 1503 (talk) 21:02, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Lex 1503 - I've updated the list of centers. You make a valid point about the No-Robots text and the Golden Key link. As these are uncontested, mechanical edits (being neither contested, nor of an editorial nature) you can make them even as a COI editor. LavaBaron (talk) 05:42, 12 November 2015 (UTC)