Talk:Baseball metaphors for sex/Archive 1

Definition of the bases
I disagree with the article. I've never heard of holding hands being any base. See first base. -- Super Aardvark 21:14, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Other metaphorical uses of baseball
This article ought to mention the other ways in which baseball can be used as a metaphor, e.g. Fitzgerald's recent speech.-86.138.4.141 20:43, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

The title to the article is "euphemism," which means replacing something possibly offensive with something unoffensive. So unless Fitzgerald was trying not to offend by using less offensive words, this article should not do that. User:216.27.160.188 08:12, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, 'baseball metaphor' redirects here. User:83.141.67.87 22:42, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

The article is not the euphemism itself, it's about the euphemism. Wahkeenah 23:33, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Woody Allen section
The section of Woody Allen quotes should, in my opinion, be removed. The article is about the use of the terms "first base", "second base", etc. as a metaphor for the progression of physical intimacy in a relationship. It is not about every quote that relates baseball and sex. The Woody Allen quotes are about thinking about baseball during sex. There is a huge difference. Thinking about baseball to prolong sexual activity has pretty much nothing to do with a metaphor about what stage you're at in your relationship. I already deleted it once, but it was reverted; I want to delete it again, but since someone apparently disagrees I figured I'd at least bring up the subject for discussion. -Branddobbe 02:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The anecdote he told in his standup act seems to me to be sufficiently close to the same concept. Note that he apparently "scores" at the same time as the Giants. Wahkeenah 02:41, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with Branddobbe. The Woody Allen quotes, while amusing, are off topic for this entry.  Allen may be using baseball as a metaphor for sex, but this article is about a specific set of euphamisms that don't align with Allen's.

Fifth Base
I know it's not the most universally used term for anal sex, but it is used from time to time. Why keep removing it? Haikupoet 20:43, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not the one deleting it, but I must say I've never heard of it, but that doesn't prove anything. Find a source for it. And not one that refers back to wikipedia. Wahkeenah 00:23, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Euphemism
This should not redirect to Baseball euphemism, as a metaphor is not the same as a euphamism, and baseball metaphors are much broader and more widely applicable than the more specific and explicitly sexual baseball euphamism. I do not know what belongs here, but it is not a euphamism. --The reverend 02:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with this article. It is a bit of cultural knowledge, and widely used. also, yes, it IS a euphemism. -zuckling 68.146.164.242 13:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Citations?
Who put the citations thing there? As I know, euphamisms that have existed in common knowledge for generations don't usually have an easy-to-find source. Look it up yourself, instead of sticking up a box and making it everyone else's problem.
 * And a article that entirely revolves around facts which are nearly impossible to source should not, in general, be on Wikipedia. See Verifiability. --WikkiTikkiTavi 04:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the changing to "euphemism" By no means are these metaphors. Also, 1/2 of these are made up, guys.

The first two people are right, because, if you're too young to know what these mean, you shouldn't be reading this anyways, so why is this on Wikipedia?My Page 02:05, 20 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bllasae (talk • contribs)
 * so that us foreign people can also understand what it means if we happen to run across them. Your argument is on the line of 'if you're too dumb to know everything why should I tell you'. So it's exactly that what Wikipedia is for in the first place. Zefiro (talk) 11:39, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Some people, such as myself, know what they mean, but are unsure which each base is, you might wanna check before you make an idiot of yourself by saying the wrong base. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.188.39 (talk) 00:58, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Elements made up
Can an expert of these metaphors remove those that are never used? There are way too many elements in the list like if someone wanted to make a metaphor with every single baseball term. Canjth 13:57, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

This is just like those lists of "100 Things to Do in Wal-Mart", it's supposed to be funny. Does it belong on Wikipedia? Maybe, I have no probelm with it, infact I printed off a copy to show my buddies.

I think that noting that some of them were created simply for comedic effect (rather than actually being common slang or euphemisms) will suffice. Justin Eiler 17:29, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Elements that are made up should not be on a Wikipedia page, period. This article cannot be both a serious encyclocpedic entry on the topic and a comedy riff on it. Maybe some of these made-up terms would work out well at Uncyclopedia. But why are we leaving them here? I'm inclined to move a whole bunch of them to the talk page at the very least, but since I'm new to this page, I'll hang back and see if anyone makes a case for leaving them in. --WikkiTikkiTavi 04:12, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

"Grand Slam" at least needs to be removed. You don't need to be an expert to realize that this is such an infrequent occurrence that there's not a genuine name for it. It's simply comedic. It's like putting "donkey punch" or something up there. NOT REAL! --Artdyke (talk) 08:19, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Expert?
Is it necessary to have references in popular culture? It's a fairly common saying, that'd be like trying to reference "bling bling". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.147.183 (talk) 03:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the recent adding the "needing an expert tag", I don't think someone can be an "expert" on baseball metaphors for sex. It should be either removed, or replaced with an alternate tag. UnDeRsCoRe 01:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Well I mean that someone who knows which ones are actually used and the ones that are entirely made up should come and delete the ones that are never user. There are too many elements in the list. It's like if someone wanted to make a metaphor with every single baseball term. I know it is not really an "expert" but it's the best tag possible. Canjth 02:24, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * True, I understand now. Also though, most of these are fake and are not actually real. Clean up? UnDeRsCoRe 02:35, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, cleanup is necessary and go ahead if you want to change the
 * expert needing tag by a cleanup tag. I think cleanup should begin by eliminating all the euphemisms below rain delay (they look ridiculous...) and should continue as we would get opinions from other people. Canjth 21:31, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I concur with the flow of discussion here, but I respectfully suggest that the problem goes beyond mere cleanup to more fundamental questions about the encyclopedic nature of the article and the importance of the topic. I want to be respectful of the individual(s) who've worked on this page, but I suggest nominating the page for deletion entirely. --WikkiTikkiTavi 17:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * No. Baseball metaphors for sex are an important part of English language culture in North America and Wikipedia needs an article about it. I suggest, as a compromise, to remove all metaphors except the "traditional" four bases. What do you think of that? Canjth 21:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that removing all but the traditional four bases would be a big help and quite possibly salvage the article, if sources can be found for what remains. Do you think that the assertions about the traditional four bases can indeed be properly verified? An article can be on a worthwhile topic but still be unacceptable for Wikipedia if it relies on original research or hearsay. --WikkiTikkiTavi 02:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Look at this source: I'm not sure if it is reliable but it is one. Go ahead if you want to remove all the metaphors except the traditional four bases. However, I think that some of the first on the list could remain there (i.e. strikeout, ejection, inside the park home run...) but they could be deleted anyway to avoid the re-addition of other original research content. I wouldn't want this article to be deleted. Canjth 13:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

There seems to be consensus for replacing the Expert tag with Cleanup, and I have done so. --WikkiTikkiTavi 03:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to raise the issue of the reliability of the source used (the how to raise your teen one, citation number 4). Books like that are not academic works, and often rely on the author's personal anecdotes, not on studies of actual attitudes and popular definitions. Of particular concern to me is the phrase "oral sex is widely regarded as the new 3rd base", which does not seem to match up with common conceptions of 3rd base even among youth. More common seems to be that third base might include oral sex, but also might not. One of the problems with things like baseball sex metaphors is that definitions are not fixed and are constantly in flux. If the source is not a reliable academic one, then either a different reliable source should be put up or a source that doesn't rely on one person's anecdotes (urban dictionary might be a more reliable source since the focus is on a popular definition), or it should be made clear that these metaphors can include different things to different people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.237.230 (talk) 02:13, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Removal of Questionable Additions
Since no one has objected to Canjth's compromise suggestion in the previous discussion section, I've moved all the "nontraditional" items off the article page and posted them below. If we end up not keeping them, the list below should probably be deleted. Feel free to dispute this edit by discussing it here, but please respect the process and participate in the discussion, rather than blindly reverting. My rationale for removing this chunk of content is that this material is unsourced, unfocused, a sprawling list, and largely made up of terms which many editors suspected were really just jokes. None of these traits should characterize a Wikipedia article. I'm not saying there could never be serious expansion of this article with more terms, but doing so is going to take a lot more work than just starting an unsourced list based entirely on hearsay or original research. I don't mean to sound grumpy or denigrate the interest other editors have for this article; in fact, I am trying to help salvage it from being deleted by much more experienced editors or admins who would very likely frown on (if not scowl at) the article in its most previous form. --WikkiTikkiTavi 03:46, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I am reinstating more commonly used references Scoring, Striking Out, Batting for the Other Team, Pitcher, and Catcher, but removing the following more obscure (made up?)references:


 * An inside the park homerun is the act of receiving fellatio from a partner.
 * A double is when someone receives a handjob from their partner.

I am tempted to also add Taking One for the Team back in as it seems familiar and as the sexual meaning fits with other ways I've heard the expression used, but I am leaving it off. I will try to find some references to the expressions I added back in. 70.2.26.249 (talk) 03:12, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Reprint of Removed Content
A number of other baseball related euphemisms and variations on the original metaphor exist.


 * Fifth Base is anal intercourse.
 * A Strikeout occurs when there is no success at all. Striking out looking means no success because one did not try to "get on base" and striking out swinging means the partner refused any attempts.
 * An Ejection occurs when there is no success as a result of becoming "just friends".
 * A Two Run Homer is sexual intercourse two times in one night.
 * A Three Run Homer is sexual intercourse three times in one night.
 * A Grand slam is sexual intercourse four or more times in one night (sometimes sexual intercourse after knowing the other person for only one day) or anal sex.
 * An inside the park home run is a non-intercourse orgasm resulting from dry humping (clothed genital to genital stimulation).
 * A Walk is a goodnight kiss, celebratory kiss, or any other kind of non-romantic kiss.
 * A Hit by pitch is a non consensual kiss
 * Batting practice refers to masturbation.
 * Swinging your bat refers to masturbation.
 * A Balk is premature ejaculation.
 * An unearned run is when a person has sexual intercourse while drunk, and later regrets it.
 * Batting for the other team/Switch hitting refers to homosexuality or bisexuality.
 * Scoring is sexual intercourse.
 * The pitcher is the active or top partner in (especially homosexual) anal sex or sexual intercourse.
 * The catcher is the passive receiver or bottom partner in (especially homosexual) anal sex or sexual intercourse.
 * A ground rule double is accidentally fondling, especially breasts when falling on a girl.
 * Stealing a base means advancing to the next "base" prior to consent.
 * Stealing home means rape.
 * Picked off a base means being refused any more "bases" because of perceived lack of skill or ability.
 * Thrown out at the plate occurs when intercourse is refused at the last moment as a result of, for example: physical appearance in the nude, not having a condom, or inability to obtain or maintain an erection.
 * A Rain delay is the postponing of a date/romantic encounter, typically as a result of menstruation, but also from unforseeable circumsances (mood, headache, parents, etc.).
 * Being called up from the Minors is having a sexual encounter while not of legal age.
 * A slumpbuster is having a sexual encounter with someone who you are not attracted to, for the sole purpose of getting back in the "game".
 * Bunting for a hit means an attempt by a person to seduce one perceived as uglier so as to "get back in the game"
 * A Walk off Grand Slam—a satisyfing one-time sexual encounter, as in a one-night stand.
 * Breaking up two is when a jealous rival prevents you from turning a double play.
 * A Corked bat is when a man takes performance enhancing drugs.
 * A double switch is an attempt by a man to change the point of penetration, without warning the female.
 * A sacrifice fly is when a person performs oral sex on a second person, allowing the second person have an orgasm, while the first person often experiences discomfort due to their partners pubic hair and or body odor, especially true when the second person doesn't reciprocate as promised.
 * The Infield Fly Rule is when there is an unequal ratio of males to females at a party, and a member of the gender with more members leaves to create an equal ratio.
 * Pine tar is semen or lubricant
 * Charging the mound is when two males fight over a desired female, who was flirting with both men.
 * A hidden ball trick is when a man tucks his penis behind his legs.
 * Taking one for the team is involving oneself in a sexual act for the benefit of one's friends or associates, such as sexual intercourse with a less attractive woman in order for one's friends to attract another woman.
 * A Sacrifice Bunt starts out as taking one for the team, but you don't do anything while your friend gets laid.
 * A shortstop is between second base and third, usually referring to an act of manual stimulation leading to orgasm.
 * A Line drive is when a man ejaculates on a woman's face.
 * Batting Around the Order is an orgy.
 * Hitting for the Cycle is when one guy sleeps with all of the girls that live in one location (e.g. 2, 3, or 4 room apartments) Or if he doesn’t sleep with all of them but one and gets to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd base with the others.
 * A Relief Pitcher is using a sex toy to finish when you obviously can't make the play.
 * A Fielder's choice when one guy gets to first base, only to be rejected due to a friend's dumb move.
 * The phrase "if there's grass on the field, play ball!" commonly refers to how young a girl should be to have intercourse. Another take on it is "if there's no grass on the field, play in the mud!"
 * A Batboy is one who has never reached first base. (see American Pie)

It should be noted that many of these euphemisms were created for comedic effect, and may not be commonly used.


 * ... or, indeed, documented. Although they can be found on web pages such as this one that are explicitly labelled as jokes, they are not actually documented as being real anywhere.  None of the sources that I have found even mention them. Uncle G 15:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * wow; I am not sure i should have read this... — Preceding unsigned comment added by ProfPolySci45 (talk • contribs) 03:27, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Stealing
Is it common slang to refer to a situation where one partner (usually the male in a heterosexual relationship) wants to move along the bases too quickly as "Stealing". TonyTheTiger 23:22, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I did not scroll down and see the removed content. TonyTheTiger 23:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Removal of UK content
I've removed the unsourced "in the U.K." content. Although I've found sources from the United States and from Australia, I've yet to come across a single source from the U.K., let alone one that supports that content. The entire paragraph appears to have been based upon a misunderstanding, anyway. According to the sources, the addition of oral sex is not a variation between countries, but a variation over time. It is something that has changed since the 1960s. Uncle G 17:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

those euphemisms are used all around the world.. not only usa and australia, i live in costa rica and some people use them over here -betoelbicho

I don't really know how you'd sorce it as it's not exactly written down, but in general in the UK first is french kissing, second is handjob/fingering, third is blowjob/licking out and fourth (not called a home run or anything because we dont realy know much about baseball!) is sex. Sometimes this is extended to fifth and sixth bases, which are anal and threesome respectively. I know it can't be sourced but, i dunno, just trust me this is it. Oh yeah, and sometimes feeling up is called "base one-and-a-half".

U.S. Centred
I would think that this would mostly be a USA, based concept due to the popularity of baseball for instance, should the article be edited to account for this, e.g. instead of: "often used", "often used in the United States"... cyclosarin 17:21, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Never heard of these metaphor outside the USA and as Base-Ball is played quite only in the USA, I assume that Western World is a gross generalization and I replaced the expression. --66.30.10.66 (talk) 17:01, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Anal Sex
I always thought instead of the fifth base, anal sex was 'getting in the dugout'?


 * Regardless, the hoop earring and testicles nonsense is probably, well, just that. I'm getting rid of it. 134.82.133.146 (talk) 07:12, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Orrrr someone else will while I'm bumbling around in here. Testimony to the tireless efficiency of Wikipedia editors! 134.82.133.146 (talk) 07:16, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

"Combat and war"
I've removed a passage claiming that the baseball metaphor is an "one of several images of combat and war" used by men to understand sex. This statement is inaccurate even on its face as baseball is neither combat nor war.

Alternative meanings
The article states that second base refers to groping ones genitals and that third base refers to blow jobs or other forms of oral sex. Alternatively second base refers to fondling of the breasts and third base refers to genital stimulation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.124.37.250 (talk) 01:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Half of these make no sense
Why is an orgy a triple play? I think it would be grand slam. And a threesome a two run homer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.195.123.31 (talk) 11:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Tag
Why has someone marked this page "advertisment"? An ad for what? Baseball? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.251.57.154 (talk) 20:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

xkcd as reference?
Are we seriously citing a webcomic as the sole source for second base? --Michael WhiteT&middot;C 01:21, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * xkcd is as serious as wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.170.145.7 (talk) 01:54, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Pop Song
I am surprised that the song "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" is not cited in this article. It would be confirmation of the use of these expressions (the discussion below indicates such is needed) or evidence that the baseball metaphors were such common currency in the US at one time that no explanation was needed.165.91.64.185 (talk) 16:23, 18 June 2009 (UTC)RKH
 * Done. Mitch Ames (talk) 10:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC)


 * ... but removed by User:Altenmann as "nonnotable trivia". I think is notable, because: 1) It is a "citation" of sorts, ie a specific and obvious example of usage of the metaphors. (Perhaps the song should be listed under "References" instead?) 2) The song is notable enough to have its own article, which explicitly mentions the baseball commentary (which is a significant proportion of the song).
 * The reference to the song appears to comply with WP:POPCULTURE. In particular, it is more than just a "passing mention", and the mentions have at least one other source (ref 1 in the Paradise by the Dashboard Light article).
 * Does anyone have any other opinions on the matter? Altenmann, do you want to reconsider? Mitch Ames (talk) 12:25, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I removed the piece as unreferenced. Your reference sheds more light. I would suggest you to put the piece into "history" section and expand it, clearly pointing out that the voice-over is a real commentary by a notable announcer. - Altenmann >t 17:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think History is the correct place to mention the song. The song is a good example, but has no particular historical significance, eg it is not the first usage.  According to the reference, the voice-over is not a real commentary (ie of a real game) it was written specifically for the song. The announcer, Phil Rizzuto is a real, notable commentator.  Thus I have restored the paragraph as it was before, in a "In popular culture" section, but now with the reference added. I don't think that there is much point in adding much more information - any more detail is more relevant to the song (and covered in the song article, which is linked from the metaphor article) than the metaphors article. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:02, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Really?
This is an encyclopedia article? Ridiculous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.228.40.218 (talk) 04:22, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I've never heard of any of these other than the first/second/third/home references and 'striking out'. Most of these seem made up or extremely rarely used.--Adelesse (talk) 22:03, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

I want "it" so bad. im 11. how do i get it? even a dry hump! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.248.189.205 (talk) 06:00, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes Really. This is definitely an encyclopedia article. I actually drifted over here because the New York Times ran an article on Third Base, and as a 40+ year old, I couldn't remember precisely what that means. Its also an important resource for non-americans, at a guess, since the metaphors permeate American pop culture. Many of the humorous terms listed below in the discussion section don't belong in the article though, I'd agree. Charlesaf3 (talk) 16:36, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Biological or sociological explanation for the "bases"?
This article is interesting because it points towards a much deeper research topic - the concept of sexual escalation. We seem to be one of the few/only species that (sometimes) participates in a series of sexual activities of escalating intensity over multiple encounters. Is this significant? The articles on courtship and dating don't seem to have much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by James Monroe (talk • contribs) 03:25, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Third base
The discription of the bases calls third base oral sex but a later section says oral sex is replacing third base (or the base system as a whole). Wiktionary defines third base as "(colloquial) Touching a man's or woman's genitals in a sexual manner; mutual masturbation" Should we make this change? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.2.26.249 (talk) 03:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. This is ridiculous.  This metaphor has existed since the 1950s, at least, in a time when oral sex was far, far less common.  By the definitions used here, most couples in the 50s and 60s would have crossed over the pitchers mound, running straight from 2nd base to home, skipping third base altogether. 50.193.171.69 (talk) 19:57, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Looking for Alaska
... is likely not a reliable source, especially to claim a "widely accepted" view. Not to mention Looking for Alaska page 99 clearly contradicts the article  Bramble  claw  x  23:31, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Brambleclawx, as seen here and here, I tweaked the wording and removed the source; I had no idea that the content was sourced to a fictional story. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll add WP:Reliable sources for the material at some point. Flyer22 (talk) 01:49, 8 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Note: An IP added some sources here. Flyer22 (talk) 04:31, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Linguistic problem.
Well, my edit was reverted. But why? Look at the sentence below:

Among the most commonly used metaphors there are the bases describing levels of...

In my opinion the above sentence without "there" has no sense. It is like: Among animals there are predators and prey. The word "there" is absolutely necessary, right?

But maybe my language skills are too poor to understand this syntax. Anyway please help me - it is very important to me. What I know so far:

I would really appreciate your help. 85.193.240.37 (talk) 09:11, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) There are the bases describing levels of physical intimacy.
 * 2) The bases are metaphors.
 * 3) Among the most commonly used metaphors there are also the bases.
 * 4) The bases are ones of the most commonly used metaphors describing levels of physical intimacy.
 * I agree with the reversion. In this case "there" is unnecessary. If it is left in, the sentence then suggests that the metaphors are in a physical location ("there") which is not what is being conveyed.
 * In your example the "there" after predators is used to introduce what is being emphasized or described next. (I'm not sure I agree that it is absolutely necessary, though.) Wish I could be of more help. Twofingered Typist (talk) 13:33, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * AFAIK, in sentences beginning with a preposition, the true subject ("metaphors") follows the verb ("are"). If I'm mistaken, I apologize and am happy to defer to anyone to correct this without objection. DarjeelingTea (talk) 23:19, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

@Twofingered Typist: Your argument that "there" suggests a physical location is a bit of a stretch. For example we can say: There are a lot of emotional problems. The role of "there" in English does not restrict to a physical location, right? DarjeelingTea wrote: the true subject ("metaphors") Given your logic, metaphors are the bases. In other words metaphors play a role of baseball bases. Quite the opposite. It is the bases that are metaphors in our sentence. And the word "bases" is the subject, and therefore the sentence is . Rarely do we use inverted syntax in Wikipedia, like I did a while ago. Acording to WP:MOS we should use plain English. The sentence with "there" is closer to plain English, so I will restore my edit. Okay? 85.193.240.37 (talk) 17:45, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

PS. Whatever you do, thank you both for the response. I am very grateful. Being ignored is the worst :-) 85.193.240.37 (talk) 18:03, 13 January 2017 (UTC)