Talk:Baseball uniform/Archive 1

Details
What does the line "and its details" mean in the lead? It being what? 144.175.17.179 (talk) 15:44, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It means the uniform's logos, colors, ect.-- RyRy5 ( talk  ♠  wikify ) 17:54, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Then clarify cuz it makes no sense. 144.175.18.115 (talk) 18:36, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅-- RyRy5 ( talk  ♠  wikify ) 18:39, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Copyright infringement
Some sections of the article appears to be a copyright infringement of http://www.baseball-almanac.com/ (cited as a reference), see 1, 2, and of ezinearticles.com (a blacklisted site), see 3. The copyrights of both sites are incompatible with a use on Wikipedia. There is also an entire section from Baseball cap, and we can't exclude other copyright infringements. Maybe this should go to WP:CP. Cena rium (talk)  17:16, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll try to find some time later this afternoon to copyedit the article to remove copyright issues. Kingturtle (talk) 17:26, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I gave it a shot. Fix anything I did. Revert if it wasn't helpful. Kingturtle (talk) 19:48, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Revert it ? Oh no, it was certainly helpful and well done. I also tried to fix a sentence in the Graphics section that was copied from the baseball-almanac.com source. Cena rium  (talk)  20:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What about the copy from baseball cap ? Is it enough to indicate it, is it compliant with the GFDL ? Cena rium  (talk)  20:08, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I checked further, and there are other copyright violation of the almanac source and others (baseball.mu) disseminated in the article. Sorry but I am completely ignorant in this domain, so I prefer not try to fix it myself, that wouldn't be helpful I guess. For example, the Stockings section 4, the shoes section 5. Those are copyrighted sites, not mirrors. Cena rium (talk)  20:32, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll try to fix those issues myself, but any other help with be useful too. I'm sorry for the copyright problems here. I tried to reword it the best I can, but it seems it still a copyright problem. -- RyRy5  ( talk  ♠  Review ) 00:21, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I recommend that you get ahold of Okkonen's Baseball Uniforms book. It will tell you everything you need to know about 20th century uniforms. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 21:15, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The copyvio of baseball cap has been removed. There are a few others though... RyRy5  ( talk  ♠  wikify ) 01:17, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

We cannot afford to keep copyright violations indefinitely, we already have enough of them. So I removed the copyvios, please refer to the diff. The article's progression has been affected, but enough time has been given to address the issue. Cena rium (talk)  00:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Infobox Availability?
Is there possibly an infobox we can add to the article? I can't seem to find the right one myself. If one is found, either show it here or add it to the article. Thank you. -- RyRy5  ( talk ) 02:48, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Checked WP:IBT, as far as I can tell none are appropriate.  RC-0722 247.5/ 1  02:52, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * How would you have an infobox for a standalone article? And what would it contain? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 03:04, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a clue. Should I work on one?  RC-0722 247.5/ 1  03:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see the point. Do other styles of clothing have infoboxes? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 03:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, no. Was wondering, do FAs and GAs have to have infoboxes?-- RyRy5 ( talk ) 03:27, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope and nope.  RC-0722 247.5/ 1  03:28, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Then none is needed, especially if no one has a clue as to what info would be in it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 03:55, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Uniforms vs. nicknames
There could be some serious crossover in these two articles if we get into too much detail. But the articles, while related, are not the same topic. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 13:54, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Various discussion
I think the opening line doesn't need to say both "coached" and "managers". A manager is a subset of the term coach, although obviously in pro baseball he isn't really referred to as coach. To Bugs: do you think the parenthetical note "(but not always)" in the lead is needed? I think the term "often" implies that. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 17:41, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The real point is that anyone participating in the game on the field is supposed to wear a uniform. That needs to be clearer somehow. Connie Mack didn't wear a uniform, he wore a business suit. But he didn't coach on the baselines or go to the pitcher's mound, he had coaches do that. He stayed in the dugout. McGraw coached on the baseline, so he had to wear a uniform. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I think "often" covers that. Furthermore, we have the luxury of not having to make a blanket statement about how a uniform is worn by coaches because it definitely varies level to level. Obviously Pro and college ball have some strict rules, but often asst coaches in highschool dont wear a uniform (even if coaching on the field), same goes for little league. Maybe this brings up a new section... we can lead the lead as "often coaches wear uniforms" etc, then have a section below on rules regarding coaches attire, etc. Im sure there are some sources to be found. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 17:49, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You're right, I'm too focused on the pros, as is the whole article. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:54, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I changed it to say "sometimes by non-playing personnel such as managers and coaches" because managers and coaches are not the same thing, at least at the professional level, and you also have batboys, ballgirls, and so on, who might also (but not always) wear something that looks like the team uniform. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it looks good, and you are definitely right about also including bat boys, etc. The article currently being focused on the majors I wouldn't call a problem, just that we have a lot of good sourced info on that. Little League, college, international will probably all need to be addressed at some point. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 18:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * And the attendant rules. Certainly in kids leagues, the coaches typically don't wear uniforms, but they participate on the field as needed. I also question some of the years. I don't know where that 1849 came from, for example. Maybe that's the beginning of the NABBP, but the fact is that uniforms of some kind have always been a part of organized baseball. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 18:05, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was concerned about that too. The way it is now, it almost implies that there were games played in MLB where a team didn't have some form of a uniform. There was probably always something that would be considered one. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 18:07, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, the article misleads when it implies that MLB began in 1849. "Organized baseball" would be a better term. That's just one of many issues with the article, which is slowly improving over time and with additional hands. And the article needs more illustrations to show examples of the evolution of the uniform. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 18:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Comments
I know nothing about baseball, but I was asked to comment on this


 * third para of lead is too short, and it's not clear how it relates to the article title
 * What makes refs 3 & 4 reliable?
 * I don't like the way the web links are formatted, without a title and with a surplus url. As an example ref 14 imho should be
 * Okay, we can fix that. Thanks for commenting. -- RyRy5 ( talk ) 08:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't like the way the web links are formatted, without a title and with a surplus url. As an example ref 14 imho should be
 * Okay, we can fix that. Thanks for commenting. -- RyRy5 ( talk ) 08:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, we can fix that. Thanks for commenting. -- RyRy5 ( talk ) 08:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, we can fix that. Thanks for commenting. -- RyRy5 ( talk ) 08:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, authors not given eg ref 16 jimfbleak (talk) 08:32, 27 May 2008 (UTC)



New image to be added?


I am thinking that we should add the image to the right to the shoes section of the article. Comments? -- RyRy5 ( talk ) 22:54, 31 May 2008 (UTC)