Talk:Bastard

I have been wondering
It seems acceptable these days to use the word the word bastard as a general all purpose term of disapproval about another person, although, except in jocular situations, usually out of the hearing of the person who is being derided. Yet, nowadays we seem much more sensitive about referring directly to terms that are derogatory, so that words like nigger, queer, spastic etc., etc., are unlikely to be used in most contexts as descriptive terms. The term bastard seems to be rarely used accurately, with its precise meaning to describe a person whose parents are not legally married. Conversely there is a great increase in the birth of people of parents who are not married so that there is in actual fact a great increase, these past decades in people who truly are bastards. Why then is it customary to use the word as a general term of dissaproval in these new circumstances? Presumably, many of those calling others "bastards" are themselves also a true bastard? Tolkny 11:54, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Tolkny, check out the Wiktionary entry on Bastard. You can see that its meaning with respect to a person's illegitimacy is but one of three that describe people.  Therefore, it is not the one precise definition of the word; the other sense you describe is also a legitimate (hah!) definition.  —RadRafe 14:24, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup
I tagged this as disambig-cleanup yesterday and have re-added this just now - for what a dab page should look like please see MoS:DP. Thanks/wangi 17:35, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Brookie wrote in his edit summary:
 * "This is a proper disambig page as far as I can see if Wangi disagrees can he fix it please?"

As I said above, read through MoS:DP on how disambig pages should be done. This one falls short on a number of counts (most!): I'll re-tag the article again - there is nothing wrong with an article carrying the cleanup tag. It allows others to bring it up to standard. I will try and do it myself, but if it's tagged someone else can do it before me, perhaps. Thanks/wangi 09:49, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) Excessive wikilinking - only the links to the pages themself should be linked, not other terms
 * 2) Excessive bolding - only bold Bastard on the intro paragraph, do not bold other links (which is being done to differentiate them from the other wikilinks which shouldn't be there)
 * 3) Backwards - try to link to the disambiguated page with the first word in the line
 * 4) Using sentences - entries should nearly always be sentence fragments
 * Done. Thanks/wangi 10:21, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks Wangi - you're a star! Merry Xmas! Brookie :) - a collector of little round things! (Talk!) 11:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

It does look much better now. Thanks Wangi, jguk 11:52, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Video games?
I do know that there is a Super Famicom Bastard game, based on the anime, but I don't have enough detail to make an article on it. Does anyone else know about it?--Vercalos 08:32, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Misbegotten
Why does "Misbegotten" re-direct here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Jedi Master Bra'tac (talk • contribs) 25 October 2006.


 * bastardly: born out of wedlock; "the dominions of both rulers passed away to their spurious or doubtful offspring"- E.A.Freeman - someone being clever, I think. However, if you want to create an actual article about something called "Misbegotten" then I'm sure it would be entirely legitimate! To overwrite the redirect page, that is. Bubba hotep 18:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Misbegotten is an episode of Stargate Atlantis, and it already has a page


 * Not anymore - see Misbegotten Bubba hotep 20:57, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Bastard a male version of bitch.
I honestly don't think that's true. The word asshole is way more rude than bastard, believe me. And honestly, I haven't that often hear anyone call a female asshole. And it's way more offending than bastard can ever be. So let'd discuss this. TheBlazikenMaster 10:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * O.k., I'll bite. What, in your opinion, is the closest female equivalent to bastard? Butwhatdoiknow 20:22, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I really don't know. I also could be wrong about that bastard isn't the male version of bitch. But that kind of info needs a source. Next time I won't remove the info, I will add a fact tag. TheBlazikenMaster 16:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I accept your kind offer and have put the text back in, complete with a reference. Butwhatdoiknow 17:45, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Fine enough for me. TheBlazikenMaster 19:39, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Captain Pownoll Bastard Pellew
Captain Pownoll Bastard Pellew, 2nd Viscount Exmouth.

Why no mention of him, or others who have that name which is non-derogatory?

And, bastard/half-bastard files, and other uses of the word legitimately used, should surely be mentioned?

68.99.252.93 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:44, 19 May 2009 (UTC).


 * There's an entire section called "People with the family name", to which I have added Pownoll Bastard Pellew, 2nd Viscount Exmouth. If you notice any others who have Wikipedia articles but do not yet appear on the list, please add them. The file classification is listed in the top section, and the page does include many "other uses of the word legitimately used." Again, if you see any omissions that have articles, go ahead and add them. Please see WP:MOSDAB for information about the function and format of disambiguation pages. Cheers!-- Shelf Skewed  Talk  02:25, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Bastard of Orleans
As I pointed out in my earlier edit summary, the Bastard of Orleans was a real historical figure. And of course Henry VI, Part 1 is one of Shakespeare's history plays, so historical figures are represented therein. Historical persons are represented in many works of fiction, from literature to video games, but we don't need to disambiguate every appearance of such individuals. At Abraham Lincoln (disambiguation), for example, you will not find "Abraham Lincoln, a character in the film Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure", even though that character is a highly fictionalized portrayal of Lincoln, because the character is still obviously a representation of the real Lincoln. Likewise, I don't think we need a separate entry here for the fictional representation of the Bastard of Orleans.-- Shelf Skewed  Talk  04:11, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Obsolete-Meaning #3: Wine
An obsolete meaning for "bastard" was a sweet wine. Thus some english literature (Shakespeare), makes reference to bastard wine, perhaps often it has a double meaning. Thus when I quoted it on the bastard page, people honestly didnt believe it or were offended, but here it is again: score a pint of bastard- Then your brown bastard is your ownly drink. is shakespeare...yes, shakespeare...and in this case..Bastard is the wine. And his other reference is Score a pint of bastard in the half moon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NormBograham (talk • contribs) 02:48, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I have added an entry for this use linking to an article, Sack (wine), that discusses it--and cites Shakespeare, to boot (although on the term sack, not bastard; you could add a bastard quote, I suppose).-- Shelf Skewed  Talk  05:07, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Merge proposal
Given the hodge-podge and overlap of names included in both pages, I suggest merging the two pages Bastard and The Bastard, else separating out each usage more accurately. (I started doing the latter, but it's slow going on my tablet, and currently incomplete). Laterthanyouthink (talk) 20:21, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose as this would make two reasonably sized disambiguation pages to a single unnecessarily large one.  Invading Invader  (userpage, talk) 20:30, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Most DAB pages contain instances of both with and without an article, where applicable. Also, if you look at the "People with the epithet" list, quite a few of those are "the bastard". What about creating a set index article out of that list? Can't think of a name though. "Bastard (name epithet)"? There are also quite a few of those types of names listed as See alsos on the The Bastard page. And there are also quite a few with The in front of them on this page, in practically every section. I think it's worth inviting comment from some DAB experts on the project page, so I'll post there now to get a few more opinions. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 08:22, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. The terms are so similar as to be interchangeable. One large page with sections and a ToC is still more helpful than two separate ones where a person has to guess which to look at. Nick Number (talk) 15:30, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment I think we could reduce the volume of entries by creating an article for the epithet entries, which are not really ambiguous, along the lines of List of people known as the Black or List of people known as the Unfortunate.— Shelf Skewed  Talk  16:33, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh that looks like a good idea. I can do that, to start with. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 01:19, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 01:55, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment. I have also just discovered Bastards (disambiguation) and The Bastards (disambiguation). Putting them all into this one may make it a bit too long, so it may be desirable to keep the plural form separate - but I suggest merging those two as well. There are only three on the latter page. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 02:03, 7 September 2023 (UTC)