Talk:Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean/Archive 1

Wording
Please use wording like "the player does such and such" rather than "you do this and that" for a more encyclopaedic style. Tim! (talk) 18:31, 18 January 2006 (UTC) tra lalala tra lalala

Cleanup already done?
I removed the style cleanup template as I think it's now in a proper style. - Gaiacarra 10:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Pretty bad
As noted in the edit history, this article looks like a trainwreck. All the "you"s, jokey fanboy writing, and so on and so forth. I don't know anything about this game so there's not much I can do beyond a simple lead section cleanup, and the excision of a portion - addressed directly to the reader from an editor - that definitely does not belong in the article (now that I think about it, making it a hidden message might have been better than deleting it).

Anyway, like I said I don't know anything about this game (and thus don't know what's up plot and detail-wise), so would someone who does mind taking a crack at cleaning it up? - DoubleCross 04:35, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I did some work on the summary and on Kalas' bio to fix typos and make it flow better, but I don't have time to do more at the moment. There's still some awkward sentence structure. 65.68.145.113 23:55, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

In response to DoubleCross's comment:
I believe the "editor to reader" section you were referring to was mine (assuming it was the "List of Known Magnus"). While I was aware that such is frowned upon, I felt it necessary because, like it said, compiling the list of magnus was going to be a lot of work, and I didn't really want it to be deleted without knowing why. Andrew Rodland was kind enough to explain to me the reasons why I shouldn't do it (at least in the main article) and I appreciate that. I'm not exactly experienced at Wikipedia, so I'm sorry if I have done anything unacceptable. --OFX 15:36, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm...
I had been working on some of the section clean up beforehand, and I had tried to organize things a bit more. I wouldn't say the article is horrendous, it just needs to have the "you"s taken out and it needs some better direction. What do you think should be cleaned besides the Magnus stuff? -ivysaur12

Still Good Info
This page still has a lot of good info, so I agree it would definitely be a waste to purge it entirely. Rather than that, I think BK fans should post around blogs/forums and try to get a big cleanup project started on this article, as well as adding some content, since it would be hard to go through and clean up the whole thing by oneself.

Added an image.

03-21-06

Cleaned up the Summary a bit.

-Sailor_Titan

Cleanup Tag
I added a notice for cleanup.

Kalas' Age
I'm not 100% positive, but I thought at the end of the game (during Gibari's fishing side-quest) Kalas says that he's 19 years old, not 18. I may be mistaken however. -gr4yJ4Y
 * It does, though in the menu, his age is listed as 18. I haven't checked whether or not it changes to 19 near the end of the game; I just assumed when I heard that that Kalas' birthday had come during some point during the course of the game.
 * Forgot to sign, sorry. Zhorken 01:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It does, indeed, list his age as 19 near the end of the game. More specifically, I had completed Gibari's quest and was in the middle of doing Mizuti's on this particular save file. Zhorken 09:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Subway?
Are you sure that a Baten Kaitos song was in a subway commerical? I have a hard time believing that... maybe it just sounded like one?

I think it has something to do with the fact that a lot of the songs use samples that are either publicly available, or available for purchase. I've heard the vocal part of one of the songs in at least two completely unrelated works, and the music from the haunted library in some Asian drama. AustinZ 05:38, 29 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I heard it in one of the "Hi Hi Puffy Ami Yumi Show" episodes, but as I can't source it, I'm afraid I can't add this info into trivia... Wolf ODonnell 12:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

A bit...large?
I haven't checked in on this article for a while, and now looking back I'm a bit frightened by the size of it. I don't suppose it would be a good idea to break the article up into a series of smaller articles? Like a main page hub and several separate sections for characters, locations, story, etc? KojieroSaske 06:52, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Criticism section needed
I think it would be helpful to include a few instances of common criticisms, as well as strong points to balance it out. Kennard2 06:46, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

nth Game in the series
I just changed the article to state that EWatLO was the second game in the series because Baten Kaitos Origins is set before it storyline-wise.

Link9er 14:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You did what? I'm changing it back, because this game is clearly the first entry in the series because it was released first. If we use your logic, Resident Evil Zero is the first entry in the Resident Evil series and Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past would be the possibly last entry. Wolf ODonnell 12:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, both are valid points. As to not confuse people, I have simply condensed both into one sentence. KojieroSaske 20:25, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, good point. Didn't notice there wasn't any mention of this game being set before Baten Kaitos Origins. Wolf ODonnell 13:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Savyna
Savyna's IS the biological daughter of Shanath, she wasn't an orphan, it was clearly stated in the game that Shanath wanted revenge on Olgan because of something to do with her daughter, Savyna. I think. But he did clearly state that Savyna was his daughter.

Mixing information from both games
I think is just a big mistake to mix the information from the two games. If someone wants to look for details about Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean and he hasn't played Baten Kaitos Origins, he can't do it without spoiling some parts of BKO.

I suggest to eliminate BKO references in BK: EWatLO article, and viceversa, and make a global new article called "The Universe of Baten Kaitos" or something like that.

Of course, I don't want to make the change without anyone's opinion, is a very big decision. But just think on the people who has played only one of the two games and want to seek more detailed information from it without being spoiled the other game.

What do you think?

84.121.235.105 01:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I Think your right, I've thought of this as well and found the mixing of information quite disheartening to say the least. I support your point. Ryonslaught 19:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I also support the separation. I almost got spoiled pretty badly.--Sailor Titan 17:23, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

the "Development" section
Not only is it a complete mess it also has very little to do with the games development. it seems to be a cross between a gameplay section a section for themes found in the game and some out and out gushing over the thing (and I'm a huge fan of the game so that can be saying a bit). Really I think someone needs to at least take a weedwacker to it and then maybe rebuild it from there.Pwright329 (talk) 02:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * After the section was removed completely, it has now been re-written to be just actual notes about the game's development. Hopefully this should now have the correct scope.  --Slordak (talk) 17:38, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Major Changes
I made some major changes to the article. The previous development section was all about the gameplay and didn't even mention the development so I moved it to a new gameplay section. I put the magnus section just after the gamplay as it's pretty much part of it. Now it needs an actual development section. It might be better to move the Synopsys to before the gameplay because the Gameplay+Magnus sections take so much space the plot is halfway down the page. If you don't like what I've done you can change it but please don't make the development section like it used to be! The article needs more about batlle. 91.105.79.22 (talk) 13:16, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Hub Page...?
Now that it's looking like there's a serious chance of there being more Baten Kaitos, perhaps we should consider making a hub page for Baten Kaitos, similar to Grandia or Final Fantasy?--Sailor Titan (talk) 02:03, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I think this is a very good idea. The page could focus more on the BK universe and shared similarities between both games. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.39.187 (talk) 18:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Huh?
What happened to the list of characetrs page for this game? I know we were trying to not go as in depth as before but it does seem excessive to remove the page in favor of a very brief desciption of only those deemed "important" to the over all story....

anyway sorry to rant, I have'nt edited or add anything in a while so sorry if this is old news. All BK fans however are asked to contribute in intricate detail over at http://batenkaitos.wikia.com/wiki/Baten_Kaitos_Wiki

thanks Ryonslaught (talk) 16:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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Sales

 * http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/preview/3667/baten-kaitos-eternal-wings-and-the-lost-ocean-gamecube - Mentions a sales goal of 500,000 copies sold that I hadn't seen elsewhere. Putting here for now, as this would be more useful if actual sales are found. Sergecross73   msg me  18:43, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2005/1175.html - Namco's internal figures showed 161,000 copies in its debut months in NA. If they gave figures like this back then, it may be able to piece together a picture here... Sergecross73   msg me  20:54, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/namco-reports-strong-q3-profits-despite-poor-us-sales - Namco had a good quarter in BK's Japanese release. Sergecross73   msg me  20:55, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
 * http://www.rpgfan.com/news/2004/1043.html Aaand this one shows some JP sales and Namco's disappointment in the sales. Finally, something can be written. Sergecross73   msg me  21:18, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

2019

 * https://kotaku.com/baten-kaitos-speedrunner-loses-97-hours-of-progress-due-1838075407/amp The appearing itself is inconsequential to the article, but it may indirectly be helpful in sourcing some gameplay mechanics. Sergecross73   msg me  00:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

2021

 * https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/05/bandai_namco_just_registered_trademarks_for_the_gamecube_exclusive_series_baten_kaitos Sergecross73   msg me  13:07, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Redirect Baten Kaitos
Discussion moved to Talk:Baten Kaitos. Skyerise (talk) 03:53, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Consensus for dab
I've analyzed the situation with the dab page at Talk:Baten Kaitos, and the consensus is actually for the dab page, 4 to 1, or if you count an IP opinion, 5 to 1. Sergecross73 has always been the one and only editor to oppose it. Skyerise (talk) 01:54, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I was not referring to the editors who have disagreed with me with a revert and then immediately dropped it over the course of 6 years. I was referring to the only actual discussion on it, and most recent discussion on it, which at the time of my comment fizzled out at one hard oppose and no other hard stances, and went unopposed for 10 months until today when you decided to unilaterally participate and close the discussion, which is of course a no no. If you're unhappy with it, start a new discussion. You need to look at the consensus at the most recent discussion though, not handcount the yearly passerby reverts over the last half decade. Sergecross73   msg me  02:12, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Oh, believe me, if those editors had been informed of this discussion.... But of course they weren't. Skyerise (talk) 03:09, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I agree with Sergecross73 that it does not make sense for a dab page where none of the entries are the word itself. It is not a common name for the star and there is already an "other uses" tag on the article being redirect to. Also, there is nothing like a consensus here for that. Several things wrong with your attempted closure including voting and closing, the age of the discussion, and being wrong about consensus. HighInBC Need help? Just ask. 03:10, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * It is both the official name for the star and the WP:COMMONNAME, by a factor of 43 to 1 over the article title. Many stars have two official designations. WikiProject Astronomy chose to consistently use one for the article titles, as not all stars also have official names. Skyerise (talk) 03:15, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I am aware of that, and again as Sergecross73 points out above it is not commonly used. It is generally referred to as Zeta Ceti. People who might be searching for it by the less common name Baten Kaitos can follow the "Other uses" tag on this article. That is what it is for. I believe the current target is the more likely target for people searching for that term. HighInBC Need help? Just ask. 03:19, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * If it's "not commonly used", why are there 43 times more references to it by that name than by the constellation designation? Skyerise (talk) 03:21, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The game has stars in it: wiki, reddit, ... - are you counting these hits for the star? --mfb (talk) 03:36, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * If the WP:COMMONNAME is truly Baten Kaitos by that sort of margin, then, if anything, the article about the star should be located at Baten Kaitos rather than Zeta Ceti. I imagine either you're mistaken about the common name, or you should proposing Baten Kaitos contain the star's article instead. Sergecross73   msg me  03:42, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * No, that's a consistency decision by WikiProject Astronomy. None of the star articles will be moved. But they will get their redirects from the more common name, despite gamers with no sense of perspective. Skyerise (talk) 03:45, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Please note that Skyerise is now singling out editors that have shown they agree with him and WP:CANVASSing them. Sergecross73   msg me  03:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * There were no opposing views but your own, and you were notified. I notified all users who had shown an interest. Sorry if everyone happens to be against you! But that is not my fault. Skyerise (talk) 03:40, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

For the purposes of redirects page views are more important. The relevant question is "what page are people probably looking for". HighInBC Need help? Just ask. 03:32, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * That's actually up to the editors responding to the discussion, which should actually be moved to Talk:Baten Kaitos. Guidelines clearly state that it's not a decision based solely on numbers. Skyerise (talk) 03:38, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I am an editor responding to this discussion. As for the location I agree, you are the one who started it here. HighInBC Need help? Just ask. 03:47, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * No, it was opened in August by Shhhnotsoloud, and reopened by Sergecross73 today. I have only expressed my opinion in it. But if you had actually read it, you would have known that. Skyerise (talk) 03:51, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Right here. I was clearly talking about this discussion, not ancient history. Lets try to keep our feet on the ground. Of course I have read what is happening. HighInBC Need help? Just ask. 03:53, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I've moved the redirect/dab discussion and vote to Talk:Baten Kaitos. Funny neither admin involved bothered to do so, even after admitting that's where it should take place! Skyerise (talk) 04:00, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * When involved in a content dispute admins are not acting as admins but rather as regular editors. You are taking us a fair bit off topic. While you are at it you might as well move this discussion you started there also. HighInBC Need help? Just ask. 04:20, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * As someone already mentioned, you were the one who started this discussion in the wrong place. Are you seriously accusing us of being the bad guy because we didn't clean up your goof fast enough? Yikes, come on.  Sergecross73   msg me  04:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * You just don't like it when editors disagree with you, do you? Again, I didn't start the previously above discussion, nor did I reopen it. Now why don't you get off your high horse and go write an article? Bye. Skyerise (talk) 04:24, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I thought you meant this discussion too, since its all about the same exact thing. It seems you're referring to a different discussion we didn't open up here. Sergecross73   msg me  04:48, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

New sources

 * https://it.ign.com/nintendo-switch/199842/news/baten-kaitos-tornera-nuovi-rumor-parlano-di-un-remake-in-sviluppo-per-nintendo-switch?amp=1
 * https://www.nintendolife.com/features/soapbox-whether-the-rumour-is-true-or-not-baten-kaitos-deserves-a-remake

Sergecross73  msg me  23:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)