Talk:Batik

Batik Production
How is it said that the batik dye comes. BatmobileFire (talk) 14:39, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Pronounciation
How is batik pronounced? BA-tik or ba-TIK? Could be useful to add that to the text.

Stress is generally predictable and non-contrastive in Indonesian and Malay, so both pronunciations are acceptable. Syedhusni (talk) 22:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Why is the IPA given only for Malay, with no indication of Indonesian? Especially strange because most of the text is about Java. Martindo (talk) 11:30, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Batik software
The Batik SVG software has nothing whatever to do with this topic. It is simply a product name, albeit a cute one for Java software.

--

The Java XML 'Batik SVG Toolkit' is also the first hit on Google for 'batik' - try http://www.google.com/search?q=batik

Perhaps a disambiguation page would help those looking for summary info on http://xml.apache.org/batik/ - just checked and no entry for same in Wikipedia, nor FOLDOC.

Search of Wikipedia for 'batik svg' yielded 2 hits: Scalable Vector Graphics and Apache XML

Dutch spelling
Why use dutch spelling for canting? I think it's inapropriate202.69.101.170 09:50, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * indonesian language used to have dutch spelling in every latin words, even today some of the words still being used. dutch spelling is part of indonesian spelling also.HoneyBee 20:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * But we are no longer using that kind of spelling. The solution would be mentioning "canting" with "Dutch spelling:tjanting" in brackets.202.180.52.37 09:34, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * "tjanting" is not a Dutch word. Not in my version of the van Dale anyway. I believe it to be either Indonesian or Javanese, not sure though. Anyway, it is just the way it is pronounced. As far as I know this pronounciation is still current, therefore I rolled back the removal of the pronunciation. ʍαμ$ʏ5043 17:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * To add to my previous comment: "tjap" is in my dictionary. But, I think that what the dutch spelling is, is not relevant for this article. The more important aspect of the terms canting and cap is that the pronunciation of these words is different from what your average english speaking reader would expect. Therefore, the emphasis should be on the pronunciation of these words. Entymology of these words is hardly relevant here and should belong on the wiktionary. ʍαμ$ʏ5043 17:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

External link again
Please, if you want to include an external link, find a reliable source, non commercial and really really add additional information. Simply put a link to any website without proper reliable authors of who made the article in the website is not good enough. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 08:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

General Suggestions
The History section is starting to firm up. It would be good to see a greater diversity of sources. However, a more significant concern is that the lead (introduction) focuses on Indonesia but the History section has only speculation about Indonesia until the 12th century CE. If that is the best we can determine from written records, then it would be ideal to explain why the technique became more famously associated with Indonesia. Was intricacy the key factor?

The article is growing nicely and some sections might be created to support further expansion. For example, the last paragraph of History could be split off into a new section on Uses, perhaps with a few photos of non-clothing applications. Also, the last part of Procedure is really about modernization of techniques (cap and then automated printing), which could be separated into a new section on Industrialization (or a similar heading). The new section would show examples of cap versus tulis, thereby educating the public (and potential buyers) about how to tell the difference. Keep up the good work, Aireen! Martindo (talk) 22:58, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I just read the message. Like the new sections. I have moved the last paragraph to the culture section. Not sure whether that is correct, but I think a new section should be created when there is more infos included by other users. Right now, I have run out of ideas, thanks for the batik variates section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aireen Deviani Harsoyo (talk • contribs) 10:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Was intricacy the key factor
I think there are 3 things contributing to why it is associated with Indonesia. 1. Good quality 2. Raffles mentioned it the first time that it came from Indonesia 3. The Dutch were really serious in doing the textile business in Indonesia, (got the info from Dutch Wiki) but I can't really deciper what they are saying, only fractions of words. It's good if there is a Dutch to explain it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.126.130.140 (talk) 10:22, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Internationalization
While modifying Gunkarta's recent modification of the text on Nelson Mandela, I started wondering if this paragraph is overblown. The fact that Mandela's trademark Madiba shirt was designed by a white woman from South Africa in the 1990s is only a minor issue. IMO, the major issue is the use of famous people in this paragraph to "prove" the internationalization of batik. Surely, President Obama's late mother was not the only person to collect batik. What exactly is the point of mentioning her?

Perhaps we should cut that paragraph entirely?

It seems to me that widespread use of batik (or other wax resist techniques) in a given country would be a clearer sign of dissemination. History is not just a story about famous people. The History section of this WP article mentions Yoruba and other African use of wax resist. I'd like to see that aspect expanded, because it might show old cultural interaction.

Also, let's be cautious about making this article too political. True, there has been a very controversial dispute this year, but WP articles last a lot longer than one year. Bear in mind that there are many cases of cultural transmission that go so far back that it is hard to prove who gave what to whom. See for example claims about mancala versus congkak. Martindo (talk) 01:57, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Photos
Gallery is great! Can we keep an eye out to avoid flooding it with modern fashion? Say, a general guideline to have 50% or more of the images show traditional batik, which is still far more prevalent.

BTW, isn't the Tarim Basin photo "wax resist dyed cloth" as clarified in a recent correction of History section? It's not called batik locally, so I think we should use the generic term in the caption. Martindo (talk) 01:28, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, we should emphasize more on traditional and cultural aspects of batik. Nevertheless displaying example of batik in modern fashion shows that batik is dynamic and evolve well into modern day Indonesian fashion.

About Tarim Basin, should we differentiate "batik" with "wax resist dyed cloth"? "Batik" is Javanese origin term, but wax resist dyed cloth is far older and spread wider.(Gunkarta (talk) 12:06, 19 October 2009 (UTC))

I corrected the caption to match the text of history section, which treats "was resist" in general, showing the broad geographical range of the technique.Martindo (talk) 00:21, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It now appears that only 2 of the 6 photos in the Gallery section show ordinary people. Can we delete the last two "modern" ones, retaining only the black-white and the Miss Indonesia?
 * Okay I'll delete those batik fashion pictures. Another picture of Indonesian batik school uniform would be great. (Gunkarta (talk) 23:06, 22 November 2009 (UTC))


 * Alternatively, we could make a new page called "Batik Fashion" or "Modern Batik Fashion" and put those photos there, with a link from this page. The new page would allow MANY variations, such as patchwork batik (in style in the 1990s). Martindo (talk) 22:53, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea. (Gunkarta (talk) 23:06, 22 November 2009 (UTC))

Well done. I think a school uniform photo, as well as a government official (or a middle class person at a wedding or other formal affair) would be more appropriate than a slew of fashion images. Martindo (talk) 23:24, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

thankyou! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.43.167 (talk) 18:37, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

From Indonesia
The lead should mention that batik originated in Indonesia. As it is now, it says that batik is "found in Indonesia, Malaysia, Japan, China, Azerbaijan, India, Sri Lanka, Egypt, Nigeria, Senegal, and Singapore". Batik is an Indon-Malay tradition. Similar types of patterned cloth may be found in these other countries, but to categorise all of them as "batik" is like saying all dance-dramas are ballet. Morinae (talk) 14:26, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * If you can verify this conclusively with reliable sources, then by all means make the appropriate change. WP:BEBOLD. Or ask for assistance. cheers --Merbabu (talk) 21:56, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That sentence has been bothering me for a little while. It looks like a "coat-rack" with a variety of countries hung on it at random. I've moved it to the "Culture" section, and tagged it as needing citation. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 23:34, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

To put it simple, batik isn’t 100% from Indonesia. We can’t simply point out that batik originated from Indonesia. According to UNESCO, the origin of batik is unknown. The concept of batik varies, it can be for clothing, sculptures or even canvas painting. Batik is an abstract concept of both tradition and arts. We can’t claim that this one country holds the ownership of batik when the UNESCO doesn’t even point out the real owner & the real concept behind batik. Exiledexhillium (talk) 01:33, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

To put it simple, batik isn’t 100% from Indonesia. We can’t simply point out that batik originated from Indonesia. According to UNESCO, the origin of batik is unknown. The concept of batik varies, it can be for clothing, sculptures or even canvas painting. Batik is an abstract concept of both tradition and arts. We can’t claim that this one country holds the ownership of batik when the UNESCO doesn’t even point out the real owner & the real concept behind batik. Exiledexhillium (talk) 01:33, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Should we moved the "Types and variation of Batik" section below "Indonesia"?
The article seems broke, starting with Indonesia, then other countries, and then Indonesia again (the batik types mentioned in the section are all Indonesian). So, is it a good idea to move this section below Indonesia? That way, the other country can created their own "type and variation" section specific to their own country. I think I will do this if no body objected.--Rochelimit (talk) 13:47, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

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Good source
This BBC piece goes deeply into the history of batik in Indonesia, and the link to West African fabrics. Wax Print. 112.119.117.119 (talk) 20:00, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Batik in English
The batik word has been absorbed into English. Furthermore, batik is an English loanword from Javanese or even Indonesian/Malay baṭik. Thus the "batik" word does not need to be italicized in the article and its title. —Ibra Bintang (talk) 11:53, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * References

Adding a section on some of the popular batik motifs in indonesia and an explanation on its origin and meaning
Hi everyone! As i read through this wikipedia article, I notice that it seems to miss another important factor on what makes batik so special, and I am planning on adding a table containing 10 of the most popular batik motifs in Indonesia whereby I'll be adding its explanation since I think it would help others who read this page to further understand how distinctive batik is and how each one is vastly different from the other! I am pretty new to Wikipedia, so I do apologize if there are any mistakes, but if there are please feel free to edit them or message me about it, as I am always willing to learn! Thank you --CarmenBanks (talk) 08:23, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

GA and POV pushing
Hi I hope you've been well. I've looked through this article, and I have to say, a lot of it contents no longer bear much resemblance to the version you reviewed and passed as GA a number of years ago. While it is good to see that some of the content concerning the varieties of batik clothing and techniques have been expanded, I can't help but observe that quite a few editors have resorted to WP:SOAPBOX behaviour and have been largely been preoccupied over steering the POV of the article's content to suit their own preferences. Most problematic was the lede, which I have since edited to remove nationalistic language and more closely match the prose of the original reviewed version. What are your thoughts on how to cleanup any questionable content on the current version of the article and ensuring that it still complies with GA criteria and a neutral POV? Haleth (talk) 11:56, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * You seem to have fixed it, really. The article as a whole is not in a bad shape, though much expanded. I've fixed a few small issues but most of the material seems broadly apposite. I'm not sure about the quality of the sourcing; that's not POV but may indicate that some of the more scholarly materials on batik that abound in textbooks and journal articles would be better choices. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:28, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * A specific issue is that many web sources do not indicate their publisher (or author, not that that'd help a lot here). We ought not to be using anything from a batik shop, for instance, or a private individual's website or blog. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:35, 20 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Thank you, and I agree, unless they are demonstrated to be published subject matter experts. I have already discarded a few of those as sources, but within the original context of their usage cited to problematic prose, it appears to be an attempt to demonstrate its perceived "Indonesian-ness" outside of its borders. Haleth (talk) 12:49, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

The theme
Show the themes 41.223.73.234 (talk) 18:04, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

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