Talk:Battle Angel Alita/Archive 1

As of now, Last Order has 8 volumes out in Japan... -Vega

Martian Memory is an action RPG, due to the fact that you go around fighting for chips in actual non-turn based battles... -Vega

There needs to be a lot of technical info on here and plot synopsis for the original manga, Martian Memory, and Last Order...hell, even a character list would be a good start...I'm not doing this by myself... -Vega

OK... but what are the books actually about? What is the plot?

Ditto. There's more here about the history and sales of the boks than the actual plot.
 * So write it! That's how this works. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:52, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)

Now there is some history about Battle Angel in the Main page. I hope more peoples add something about Battle Angel Alita to make this a nice full extent page work.

--Byuu 03:46, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Added by 202.76.136.19: "Immigration to Tiphares is similar to some systems in today's international societies, in the sense that applicants for Tipharean citizenship must show proof that they are worth a certain amount of money and that their entrance will not disrupt the running of Tiphares in any significant way. Tiphareans receive a special symbol on their foreheads to distinguish them from the 'riff-raff' of the scrapyard world." As Hugo/Yugo finds out, the first statement just isn't true. This could be better integrated into an expansion of the plot, as it represents a significant thematic element and spoiler. (What about Ido and Nova? Is there a "super-spoiler" tag?) -- mako 05:46, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * SUPER-SPOILER - ok, so in the manga the citizens of tiphares (aka salem, as in jeru-salem, as in jeru is the space station at the other end of the space-elevator, which is what tiphares/salem the floating city is) when they reach puberty/adulthood go through an initiation ceremony where their brains are scanned, removed, and replaced with a computer chip emulating their brain (and signified by the mark on their forehead); this is done by a maternalistic super-computer (ala System Shock) which runs tiphares and is trying to maintain a dying society -- the chips assure that the people of tiphares live a pleasurable but ultimately empty and uncritical life while otherwise retaining their identity. ido doesn't know this for much of the series, and when he finds out he goes totally insane because he can't cope; as a result he decides to wipe his memory so that he can life a decent life, though this includes losing memory of gally.  nova is already pretty much crazy the whole time (i.e. a psychotic genius) and proves this to gally (and thus the reader) by sawing off the top of his own skull.  nova is obsessed with overcoming the wheel of karma through science and deconstructionalism -- something like Jacques Derrida.  the guy operating chaos radio or whatever it's called is his son.  after attempting to reverse-engineer gally's mind (or something like that; he puts her in a matrix-like emulated environment/prison for awhile) she eventually comes to strike a deal where he gives her a bottle of nanites and she has to run up the cable of the space elevator to confront the crazy super-computer and ultimately the nanites re-configure gally, the computer, and tiphares into a giant Tree of Life deal. -- zuzu
 * sorry for the lack of greater detail; i read the entire series reasonably in succession but on the order of 7 years ago so my memory isn't exact. i really really enjoyed the original series, which mostly has a recurring theme of gally and the karmic cycle of suffering and growth/overcoming.  i think gally's circumstance was a mouthpiece for how kishiro was feeling as he was suffering a stress-induced mental breakdown.  ironically, now that he's regained his mental health, i really don't care for his new alternative ending / continued story line, titled battle angel: new order. -- zuzu

Anyone know the episode where Alita drops her brother from the pipe??
 * iirc, that's only in the OVA, and Yugo is her lover not her brother. -- zuzu

Shortly after, he updated this to a full 'R' rating, due to the Manga series' violent nature.

He later bumped it up to an R rating before leaving it unrated for the time being.
 * I took this bit out of the movie section until someone can post a source to this information. - Nick15 [66.92.0.61]
 * Leave any information about it being rated anything other than PG-13 until someone can mention a non-IMBd source to that information. - Nick15 [66.92.0.61]

Image
Someone needs to get the old image back to represent all of Gunnm...the manga takes precedent over the lame anime, so bring back the calendar picture... -Vega

New Gunnm Gaiden
There is a new Gunnm Gaiden for Last Order that has Koyomi as it's main character...I think it was called "Shadow Play", so if someone would like to confirm this... -Vega.

Question
Is someone willing to create a Last Order part? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.141.54.65 (talk • contribs) 09:37, 12 August 2006

On the short bio of Kaos, it says "He only sees at infrared wavelengths and hears and speaks at radio wavelengths." Should it be noted that later in the series, after he has his psychological battle with his alter ego, Den, he is once again able to hear/speak/see in a normal way (see fourth chapter of book 9) or would noting this just overcomplicate things at the moment? Does anybody know if the author actually explains why this happens, or why Kaos was like that originally? Also, I've noticed on both this page and the Alita page that there is a distinct avoidance of major plot spoilers, as in the constant reference to "The Secret of Tiphares" without actually ever stating what that secret is. Would there be any objections to an addition of explanations of these plot points, or to a time table of the future history of the Battle Angel Alita world, as outlined and explained in the most recent Last Order volumes? I was comparing this article to that of Neon Genesis Evangelion, and the approach to the story/plot summary section is vastly different. Shikan 06:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I say go for it. More info never hurts (I think).  I'd only suggest you move the spoiler warning down to whereever you think the really important plot points begin, for emphasis.  Showdown 20:05, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Changes, August 11, 2006
I added pictures of each of the characters, named in the major character section. I removed the "Kaos psychometry picture" and replaced it with the portraits of the major characters, for a more appropriate visual presentation. Bluebanta 06:32, 12 August 2006 (UTC)Bluebanta

Changes, May 13, 2006
Overall
 * Previous talk was archived. Please time stamp your comments and create new sections from now on as necessary.
 * Cleanup tag removed.
 * Red links and bolding removed.
 * Linked Alita's name to her page that I created. Check it out :)
 * Some structural changes. Needs to sound scholarly, after all.
 * Characters section added.
 * Live-action movie section was removed, info added to intro and disambiguated.
 * An extensive Motorball section will soon be created and either added to the article or linked from the article.
 * A short themes/motifs section *might* appear. I'll see how relevant it is.
 * Some images might change over the next few days.

Introduction

The previous introduction was overly long. The new introduction was based on the wiki entry for Bleach which offers a quick summary of release info, then quickly moved to a short synopsis. However, this series has a lot of history, so release information is a lot longer.
 * New picture of Alita for the infobox. I felt it better represented the plot (and looked better).
 * Criticism of OVA removed.
 * Info about suspension of Aqua Knight removed.
 * Info about renaming OVA removed (redundant).
 * Info about reasons for BAA's continuation removed.
 * Line about Galatea removed. Might re-add it directly to the Alita page later.
 * Short plot synopsis added.

Storyline

The storyline is too specific. It needs to be a more holistic view of the manga rather than a detailed summary of volume 1. Alita's origins were kept, but detailed info about the fight with Makaku was removed.

Setting

This section was already very well done. The only thing it could use is a description of Tiphares, which I haven't (yet) added.

Links

I was hesitant to delete much of anything. However, the links were re-ordered and the ones I felt were most relevant are first.

Showdown 19:01, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I think Alita could be set in the distant future of what is now known as the US. Having looked at some maps that came with the manga, i can say that there are some strinking similarities between them and actual maps of central US. (e.g. Ruined City = Denver, (where Alita and Figure fought colonel Bozzle's Men), Southern River = Mississippi, Nothern River = Missouri,NORAD mountain = NORAD miliray installation (Colorado)). It seems to me that Tiphares could be located somewhere south of Des Moines (Illinois)and north of Kansas City(Kansas). I could try to get the maps scanned if anyone is interested. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LaVic (talk • contribs) 15:49, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The question on whether or not is in the US was answered long, long ago. If you look at the GUNNM FAQ (linked in the article), it is explained. Elric of Grans 04:49, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

OVA ?
i see no section about the Gunnm OVA? it was a 2-episode miniseries or something (it was a long time ago...) based on the first volume. it was pretty cool but sadly only a promo for the comic book (like Berserk). Cliché Online 04:00, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It was not meant to be like Berserk. I seem to recall it being axed due to poor sales, but they had intended to animate the whole story. Elric of Grans 22:39, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Need Splits
Shouldn't the Last order manga be entirely separate. The infobox shouldn't be there if it is a spinoff. The film link is a circular link back to the page itself. Those should split to separate articles. If not, at least Cameron's film. Benjwong 17:52, 29 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I started a seperate page for Last Order: Battle Angel Alita: Last Order. I'll expand it later and clean up the main BAA page unless someone else is up to it. I copied the Last Order part of the infobox to the new page for now.
 * HertzaHaeon 03:43, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

if there is now a separate page for Last Order, should all the plot and character information given to us in Last Order be now taken off of Battle Angel Alita? Shikan 05:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I've cleaned up the page a bit now and extended the Last order page. HertzaHaeon 22:31, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I think there should be a split for the upcoming Cameron film as well. According to IMDB the official title is Battle Angel. It seems logical to use that page for the film. What do you think? HertzaHaeon 22:33, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, apparently there shouldn't be a split for the film yet. I'll put some film info back into the article for now. HertzaHaeon 00:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Characters
Given that there are so many characters in the Battle Angel universe, I think it would be better for organizational purposes to create a separate article or section called something like "List of characters in Battle Angel" broken down into seperate headings, with either more information on the characters (along the lines of how the Black Lagoon characters are currently organized), or create a link box linking to articles about each of the characters/affiliations (how the Naruto characters are organized). Sample headings could be:


 * Hunter-Warriors
 * Criminals
 * Barjack
 * Motorballers (not limited to just players)
 * Tiphareans
 * Civilians (Scrapyard residents or not)

In this regard, the separate Alita article would be linked to and the section on the TUNED AR series taken out and incorporated into the character section, as it duplicates some of the info given in the Last Order article. Maybe the character section can also reference Last Order characters (because of the overlap), or have a section for just new characters introduced in Last Order. --BrokenSphere 19:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Trivia?
I was thinking about fixing up the Trivia section a bit when something came to mind. I wanna get your guy's opinion on this.

I currently maintain a list of pop-culture references in Battle Angel Alita called the Kudos List (it's also in the Links section). Now I noticed that a lot of the trivia in the Trivia section are on the Kudos list. I also feel a lot of the entries in the Kudos list are Trivia section-worthy. However, I don't want the Trivia section to be overrun with entries; the Kudos list can show much much Trivia there is about the entire series. I was thinking that the Trivia section shouldn't be TOO long, but like, how do you choose what to use and what to leave out, given that there are a lot of choice pieces of Trivia?

Me personally, I think items in the Trivia section should be stuff that AREN'T Kudos list material; it should involve stuff like what happened during the life of the series, what inspired Yukito Kishiro during its run, etc. Maybe it could just general entires like "Kishiro tosses in a lot of heavy metal references", leaving out the specific details and just using the Kudos list or any other source as a Reference. What do you think? -- Nick15 11:53, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Since Wikipedia frowns on lists of trivia, I think the trivia section should be removed or at least renamed to Pop-Culture References or something. It's fun information and the Kudos list is an interesting read, but I don't think it belongs in the article. Perhaps it could be an article on its own? HertzaHaeon 23:20, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

The live-action Cameron film
Schwarzenegger as Ido is pure speculation and quite unlikely. I've read the rumors online as well, but that's all there is to it. There are no named sources in the original article and the whole things seems to be based on wishful thinking from Ahnuld fans. Cameron has gone on record to say that Battle Angel will not be a "star vehicle" either. I've removed Arnold from the page for now. HertzaHaeon 20:42, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe they say something about a live action film on Anime: Drawing a Revolution. I happened to have just watched that special like 10 minutes ago. Arkkeeper (talk) 23:02, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you have more info on this program, like what channel it was broadcast on, what series, etc.? -- Broken Sphere Msg me 23:05, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually I it was free on demand on FiOS Tv. Arkkeeper (talk) 03:40, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I see there's no mention in this article that veteran production designer Martin Laing and concept designer Mark Goerner were attached to this film under the name "Dolphin Project," which in turn was being developed by Fox Studios and Lightstorm Entertainment. The source link is here: . This info clearly applies to "Battle Angel's" earliest development stages, but I imagine it would be pertinent. Might provide a sound basis for fan speculation as to what direction character design, environments, etc., may take. Anyone agree? FaustWolf (talk) 23:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Speculation, sure, which doesn't belong here. Either wait for additional confirmation or search for additional sources, so we have verifiable facts, not speculations.   Broken Sphere Msg me 21:24, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Just to clarify -- I did not mean to say that Goerner's and Laing's attachment to "Battle Angel" or that "Battle Angel's" development under the code name "Dolphin Project" were speculation; unless we can't trust artist Mark Goerner's resume (that's what I linked to above, so it's not just a fansite). I meant it would provide food for thought for further discussion on the various message boards out there -- not on Wikipedia, which is hardly a place for gossip. Still, if you feel the info is not pertinent or otherwise is untrustworthy, I'll hold off or find another source if necessary. That's why I always go to the talk pages first. FaustWolf (talk) 21:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry if I misinterpreted why you mentioned it. I don't mean to say that he's unreliable, but that if we were to start adding content on the film's staff or discuss how design and development are progressing, additional sources for verification would supplement and be more useful than just 1 online resume blurb.   Broken Sphere Msg me 22:03, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Very good, thanks! If it's okay, I'm going to use the comment space that follows to list any more sources regarding "Battle Angel's" development that I come across; we may not be able to reveal a complete picture of the development process at this point, but these may become useful tidbits later. In any case, they might be of interest to anyone who wanders onto this talk page.
 * Concept artist James Clyne was also attached (here it gives the name "Battle Angel Alita" for the project, not "Dolphin"), and indicates that development has been going on since 2003.  FaustWolf (talk) 04:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * A Gnomon School of Visual Effects brochure mentioning James Clyne, and possibly the type of work he has done for "Battle Angel" -- environments, sets, props, matte paintings, and vehicles. However, his work on Battle Angel isn't separated from his work on other films; this is just the typical sort of work he's always done. It's on page 16 (23 by Acrobat Reader measure).  FaustWolf (talk) 16:05, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Just a non-resume blurb stating that Goerner was working on Battle Angel sometime in 2005 or 2006; I can't tell right off, as the article at CG Channel is an undated archive referencing Goerner's upcoming presentation at a 2006 conference.  FaustWolf (talk) 15:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This person had visited said convention, narrowing the date of the convention to "autumn 2006". Also references Goerner's "current" work on Battle Angel. This account was written prior to Cameron announcing he woud forego Angel in favor of Avatar.  FaustWolf (talk) 15:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Structure
I propose that the headings of the article are ordedred more logically, keeping the story, characters and setting together, followed by the bits about the different formats and media. If noone has any objections I'll do this cleanup soon. HertzaHaeon 14:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Go for it. --BrokenSphere 15:34, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I would've put Setting before Characters, but otherwise it looks good. --BrokenSphere 19:01, 8 January 2007 (UTC)