Talk:Battle of Baxter Springs

Copyright?
Not a copyright violation. The source is public domain. -- brian0918 &#153;  03:43, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Baxter Springs

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved back. BusterD (talk) 14:04, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Why is this battle named Baxter Springs, I just read the article and it says the battle occurred at Fort Blair, Baxter Springs is mentioned once but by looking at this page and the Baxter Springs Kansas page, the town did not exist at the time of the battle. The fighting occurred near where the town would eventually be built. Generally battles are named after their location. Wouldn't the Battle of Fort Blair be the more proper name for this battle? I wil rename the battle to the name used during the actual conflict and not the name used years after the battle was over. I will leave the Battle of Baxter Srpings and Baxter Springs Massacre in the text to show the other, more later, names of the engagement. --Az81964444 (talk) 19:03, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Object to this move, though I see your argument and have no problem with your good faith boldness. My problem with the move is that you've provided no citation or source material to back your point of view, however logical. I can, on the other hand, point to dozens of online and in-print sources which call the battle by its location, for example "near Baxter Springs," and "camp at the Springs" by someone who was actually present on October 6, 1863, commanding general James G. Blunt's October 19, 1863 report (OR Series I, Volume 22, Part 1, Page 688, in the section entitled "Action at Baxter Springs, Kans."); "Baxter Springs" (Boatner, TCW Dictionary, p. 51), and the NPS site which is linked on the page. BusterD (talk) 23:30, 22 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Object on several grounds and will be changing the name back.  Here are the problems with the change that was made without consent:
 * 1. Baxter Springs Massacre or simply Baxter Springs is the most common name.  Albert Castel uses it, The Civil War Battlefield Guide uses it, Brownlee uses it, the history of the county from 1904, etc.  Sometimes one sees it as Fort Baxter.
 * 2. Fort Blair is conspicuously not used and will not be recognized by the reader.  I was trying to figure out what it was when I ended up on this page...
 * 3. The original claim that Baxter Springs as a place did not exist at the time is refuted by it being on the Official Records Atlas map of that section of Kansas.  It is also directly stated by Blunt as the location in his report.  And the History of Cherokee County, Kansas and representative citizens; Ed. and comp. by Nathaniel Thompson Allison, 1904 reports this: Baxter Springs took its name from A. Baxter, the first person to take a claim on the land on which the northeast part of the town was afterward built. According to the statement of Mrs. A. Willard, who is now 64 years old, and who has lived all her life in the neighborhood, 'Old Man Baxter' lighted upon his claim about the year 1850, and could, therefore, be nothing more than a 'squatter.'"  That it was incorporated as a city in 1867 does not change the fact that it was already a recognized place name.
 * 4. The full O.R. has many, many references to "Baxter Springs" before and after the massacre.
 * 5. I don't believe editors are supposed to coin new names for battles. Red Harvest (talk) 06:44, 7 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment At the suggestion of User:Red Harvest, I looked at the bold move by (now blocked) User:Az81964444. Clicking through sources, I couldn't find a single one which used the naming Battle of Fort Blair, though I did of course find numerous references to the fort, as it was the name of the post at the time of the incident. I moved the page back to Battle of Baxter Springs, then clicked through the pages which linked to the Fort Blair namespace, removing the double redirects. BusterD (talk) 13:55, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Infobox battle result
An IP editor at Fort Hays State is adding additional information to the infobox result, which per the APBB is classified as a "Confederate victory." Calling it a "raid victory" is contorted. Similarly, the other wording is inappropriate for what should be a simple summary, and is already covered in the text. While the small fort held out, there were extremely heavy Federal casualties because of the attack on Blunt's column, so I don't see a good reason to add "Fort Blair remains in Union hands" in the summary infobox result, especially considering it was abandoned shortly thereafter because of its vulnerability. It wasn't like it held strategic value and there wasn't an all out assault. It was typical of raiders (and guerrillas) attempting to capture such a position without heavy assault, and withdrawing in the face of determined defense. Absent the massacre and assuming that the raiders did not make and succeed in an all out assault because of the absence of Blunt, it would have been a Union victory.

Insertion of the additional wording carries some unnecessary bias that I believe it would be best to avoid. Red Harvest (talk) 00:47, 25 March 2015 (UTC)