Talk:Battle of Caloocan

Igorot POWs at Caloocan
Perhaps more information on the disenfranchisement of the Igorot people in the "results" section would be helpful in contextualizing the U.S. subsequent navigational help — Preceding unsigned comment added by Devonsisunik (talk • contribs) 04:27, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Reversion of 2018-11-12 addition
This edit caught my eye, and I have reverted it. Wikisource:https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Soldiers_Letters is cited in support. That source presents material taken from Anti-Imperialist League pamplet, 1899, "Soldiers' Letters: Being Materials for the History of a War of Criminal Aggression.", and notes: "As [that source] is often unable to verify their statements, or even to identify the writers, it disclaims responsibility for their truthfulness."Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 10:56, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Recent revisions
I have concerns about these recent revisions by . They strike me as an improvement in presentation, but with some muddling of details. We've discussed this briefly here on my talk page, and that produced some change, but I still have concerns. I'm airing this here not because I think we have a dispute to be decided but, possibly, to get wider input on changes I think are needed and presently intend to make if I'm not beaten to it or persuaded otherwise by discussion.

Discussion? Suggestions? Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:32, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Elwell Otis commanded the 8th Corps, in which Arthur MacArthur Jr. commanded the 2nd Division. Harrison Otis (no relation to Elwell) commanded the 1st Brigade under MacArthur. There's too much potential for confusion there. Elwell should be added to the infobox and these relationships should be clarified.
 * The lead section says that the U.S. offensive was planned by MacArthur and Harrison Otis. I see no support regarding who did the planning. Unless clarified and supported in the article body, this assertion should be removed.
 * The Background section explains that this action followed on a 4 Feb attack on U.S. forces in Manila which resulted in Filipino forces being pushed northwards with U.S. forces in pursuit, and that Filipino forces regrouped in Caloocan, 12 miles north. It says that MacArthur wanted to attack immediately but was "persuaded by fellow officer Elwell Stephen Otis" to delay. The supporting source cited says that Otis (that would be Elwell, MacArthur's commander) approved the plan (begging the inference that it was MacArthur's plan), but urged a delay. The battle commenced on 10 Feb, so there was a delay of several days. This needs to be rewritten. I've looked for more detailed sources re the delay, but have not found any. I did stumble across this in looking for sources. That is not pertinent to this discussion, but I mention it here thinking that it might be useful in the Aftermath section.
 * Hi Wtmitchell, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I've been somewhat busy over the past few weeks, so do forgive me if I have made some errors in my edits. That being said, I'll try and go over the points you have raised so far.
 * From what my sources say (and do correct me if I have misinterpreted them), while Elwell Otis did indeed command the 8th Corps, MacArthur Jr. commanded the 2nd Division of that corps- and as such was the highest ranking commander present at the battle. (Linn 2000) writes that it was Harrison Otis who commanded the attack on Caloocan, while MacArthur Jr. merely observed next to the artillery positions (as the lede image amply demonstrates). I understand there is confusion over which Otis the article is referring to (damn you fin-de-siecle American surnames!) so I'll try my best to sort that out. I also don't think that Elwell Otis should be in the infobox, as my sources do not reference him being present at the battle in any way. The infobox as it currently stands (MacArthur Jr., Harrison Otis and Funston) I think should be sufficient.
 * I've reworded it to just MacArthur Jr. Looking at my sources again, I think it's fairly clear that Elwell Otis did not plan the offensive with him, merely advise him to delay it.
 * Here is what (Linn 2000) has to say about this: "Otis approved the plan but urged MacArthur to delay a few days, not only to permit him to shift reinforcements from the south but also to allow the Filipinos enough time to concentrate their forces into the Caloocan pocket." Now I know there maybe a paucity of sources on this, but Linn 2000 is a reliable source IMHO and I think that the section is fine as it stands- though if you want to reword it I am more than happy to concur with any such changes. Regards, Dabberoni15 (talk) 12:36, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Place parameter in infobox
This is a WP:BRD discussion.

I question this reversion. Quoting from the docs for Template:infobox military conflict:

See also the articles targeted by the two alternatives for this parameter: Manila (province) and First Philippine Republic.

I propose that this be reverted back to link the former article, possibly clarified and section-linked as something like "the former province of Manila".

Discussion? Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 23:28, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Seeing no discussion, I made the change. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:35, 27 January 2023 (UTC)