Talk:Battle of Guillemont

Revision
Have revised and expanded the page which could do with a fresh pair of eyes and a look at the categories section at the bottom. ThanksKeith-264 (talk) 21:54, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

3-6 September
For a battle which is officially dated 3-6 September 1916, it is very difficult to pick these dates out in the article, as most of the main part seems to cover July and August with no sense of a shift from earlier fighting in the area to the battle itself.--Rumping (talk) 00:19, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The date range was decided by the Battles Nomenclature Committee and covers the period when the German defence failed for the last time. I'll have a look at pickiing it out. Thanks for the comment.Keith-264 (talk) 07:26, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


 * That helps for the Fourth Army, so thank you. But the sections on the other formations face similar issues. --Rumping (talk) 23:40, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Question
This is an example question.

Question about 95th Brigade attack on 3 September
Re: 95th Brigade attack on 3 September that captured the German second line from Wedge Wood to southeast fringe of the village (1st para, section: September: capture of Guillemont), the article states that "The right-hand battalion had many casualties, when fired on from Falfemont Farm...", sourced to Miles pp252-253. Does the source name that battalion? It sounds like it was the 12th Gloucesters, which suffered 328 casualties in this attack, but I would like to be sure. Thanks for any help. FactotEm (talk) 08:48, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
 * "...the 12/Gloucestershire being on the right and the 1/Cornwall L. I. on the left.... At 12:50 p.m. the advance was continued by the same battalions, which captured the German 2nd Position from Wedge Wood (exclusive) to the south-eastern edge of Guillemont. On the whole the enemy resistance was easily overcome...but the Gloucestershire were taken in enfilade by fire from Falfemont Farm and suffered accordingly."

- Miles pp. 252–253 Regards Keith-264 (talk) 17:10, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The 5th Division history (Hussey & Inman) has some detail pp. 120-121, there's a pdf link in the article bibliography Keith-264 (talk) 17:18, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Brilliant! Thank you. FactotEm (talk) 14:51, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Somme Offensive vs Battle of the Somme
I preferred the term "Somme Offensive" in the lead over "Battle of the Somme" for two reasons. (1) The Somme Offensive lasted four and a half months over a wide front, from 1 July to 18 November 1916, with numerous engagements and pauses, rather than being what we normally think of as a single battle. (2) Having a battle within a battle is just a little jarring. Is there a good reason why the name "Battle of the Somme" would be preferred here, specifically (not dealing with the name of the linked article)? --Bejnar (talk) 05:29, 8 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Your preferences count for as much as mine, which is nothing; it's a matter of the Reliable sources. The Battles Nomenclature Committee decided the names not us. The campaignbox has "Battles of the Somme, 1916" but this isn't used much in prose.


 * Regards Keith-264 (talk) 10:14, 8 December 2022 (UTC)


 * As I said, I am not talking about the title of the Battle of the Somme article, I am talking about the linking reference here. So the above arguments are inapposite. --Bejnar (talk) 02:51, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * No, it's still OR. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 06:48, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * No, it is not OR, even the Battle of the Somme article indicates that it is sometimes known as the Somme Offensive, and there are plenty of those sources. --Bejnar (talk) 16:39, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

It's your OR here. Keith-264 (talk) 17:24, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh and Wiki is Wikipedia is not a reliable source regards Keith-264 (talk) 17:26, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I am afraid that I don't understand what you mean by "OR here"? I said there were lots of sources, like this one "So the Somme Offensive did relieve Verdun. And, at the strategic level, Joffre's stubbornness, combined with the Russian Brusilov Offensive which lasted from June to September, probably helped save the Italian front." page 65 The Battle of the Somme by Matthias Strohn (2016).   Could you explain what you mean by "your OR here". --Bejnar (talk) 05:17, 11 December 2022 (UTC)