Talk:Battle of Kosovo (1448)

= Comments =

Untitled
I wasn't sure where I should add this comment. In "the Wallachians deserted to the Ottoman side" the word deserted gives the impression that they left the field. Is that correct? If they remained in the field, but joined the other side, "defected" may be better, or another word, perhaps. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.89.140.181 (talk) 22:44, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Re-writing History
Serbs or serb supporters: please stop vandalizing the page by removing accurate but what maybe embarrassing info. Serbs did NOT help the Christians, in fact they helped the sultan (by blocking Skanderbeg and telling them of Hungarian plans) as they were vassals. 

Very true, while they overglorify the first Battle of Kosovo they try to hide, fake or to minimize the significance of this very important event in balkan history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.105.7 (talk) 22:36, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Numbers
I couldn't find any info about the size of armies in any reputable source. any help?

'''The souces from the books regarding the numbers does not cite ANY citations at all. The article is nothing but a lack of quality as long as the numbers are stated as official. It should be noted as Unknown. It is impossible to know how many forces there were. But I doubt that the Ottomans could gather such forces before 1453. the fundamental sources are not being neutral, but they are being irrational, such as most of the battles concerning the Ottomans are. '''
 * It is possible that the Ottoman army numbered about 60,000 men, but there were very few numbers of Turks. The army consisted mostly arabic slaves and Janissares, only 1,000 Turks as a maximum joined the battle, since the actual Turkish population was small.


 * "Hunyadi,who was now the richest landowner in Hungary, had raised an army of 24,000 men from his private resources, including German and Bohemian infantrymen armed with handguns to supplement his Hungarian cavalry. [...] This time the sultan brought on to the field a force of at least 60,000 men including Janissaries with muskets and a contingent of artillery." Jean W.Sedlar, East Central Europe in the Middle Ages, 1000-1500, p. 248


 * "Hunyadi led an army of 24,000 men, including 8,000 Wallachians, but suffered another military defeat without even seeing his Albanian allies." S.R. Turnbull, The Ottoman Empire 1326-1699, p. 36 Lysandros 03:15, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I edited the battle section so that it was in better English. I didn't alter the factual information. I think it is unclear where the position of the Hungarian light cavalry when they were routed by the Turks, someone who knows more about this battle than me might want to elaborate? Hera52 10:34, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

15 000 Turkish size 40 000 cristian size and please be obgjecite not only of cristian and slavish side!Kamuran otukenli (talk) 11:23, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

It is interesting, every article I read about a war between western powers and ottomans, ottomans fight with too many opponents, but always ottoman armies is twice (or more) the size of opponents, and at the end ottomans have too many casualties, they lose almost all soldiers even if they won. I think turk populations at that time was like china. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.179.138.173 (talk) 10:28, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Skanderbeg's men joined Hunyadi?
Here on page 53 Stanford J. Shaw in his History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey: Volume 1 says:


 * "As he (Hunyadi) marched south, he was joined by soldiers sent by Scanderbeg as well as from Wallachia. "

It is undisputed that Skanderbeg did not participate in this battle. But is it possible that Skanderbeg managed to send some of his troopss to Hunyadi? Are there some additional sources which could confirm this assertion? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:36, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Duke of Athens
I've noticed the relationship between the Duke of Athens and this timeline. In Dukagjin, there was a "Duke John" who primarily ruled the area. I'm not sure if there is a correlation, but there seems to be a relationship between the battles of the Ottoman Empire in both Athens and Kosovo simultaneously. In addition, John, Duke of Randazzo seems to be the best fit and was buried in Sicily, quite West of any assumed efforts in Athens. I'm curious to know if these correlations have occurred to anyone else or if any research joins this information.

Twillisjr (talk) 16:54, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That Duke John (Duka Gjin) lived more than 600 years before the battle of Kosovo. The Dukagjini are first mentioned in the 7th century(Ducagini d'Arbania in a seventh-century document at Ragusa (Dubrovnik). These Ducagini instigated a revolt against Byzantine rule in Bosnia and in particular at Ragusa, but they had to submit.)-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 17:08, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Skanderbeg
On October 4, 1448, Skanderbeg signed the peace agreement with Venetians, in Alessio. That is about 180 miles from Kosovo Field near Prishtina. The 2nd Battle of Kosovo started on October 17. There is no way his (or any other) medieval army could march 180 miles in 12 days through Albanian mountains.

Regarding Brankovic's motives, I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the peace of Szeged (1444). He couldn't go to war against the Ottomans without breaking the oath. --N Jordan (talk) 06:50, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Ottoman casuelties
Highly unlikely that the ottomans lost “30,000”. 4000-8000 is more likely. Germanicus44 (talk) 21:57, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * More historians have more opinions, many of them presented. Wikipedia is not about the personal POV or what do you like to see, but about to show the reliable academic contents.
 * It is also very strange that a new user like you, in a very short time delete the sourced numbers by historians and academic sources, or even overwrite the provided numbers in the marked source from a lot of battle articles in the same day. OrionNimrod (talk) 22:39, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Then why aren’t there any ottoman sources mentioned? only sources are either modern sources,or christians one who always exaggerate the numbers of ottoman troops. Having both ottoman and Christian sources makes more sense then having just Christian sources.Also adding the modern estimates.

I’m gonna stop removing the Christians sources and also try to add reliable ottomans sources. Germanicus44 (talk) 01:51, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Infobox: If you have reliable academic modern Turkish historian sources you can present them among the other estimations, you can see there are many estimations regarding all medieval battles.
 * Text: Also you can mention the contemporary estimations if secondary modern academic sources mention what the old sources claimed (if they are not fringe) as an extra info. OrionNimrod (talk) 12:01, 16 August 2023 (UTC)