Talk:Battle of Longstop Hill

Background section
Been reading through articles on North Africa campaign and the second paragraph of the background section appears to be inconsistent with other pages.

"In January 1943, the German-Italian Panzer Army under command of Erwin Rommel had withdrawn West after General Montgomery's Eighth Army had given him a beating at Medenine and had taken the formidable Mareth Line."

It implies that the beatings occurred before January, when they occurred 6 Mar and 16 - 31 Mar respectively. It also implies that Rommel was in command for both battles. Regardles of the actual date that Rommel was posted from his appointment in North Africa, he was not in the theatre.

"General Giovanni Messe was appointed commander of Panzer Army Africa, renamed the Italo-German Panzer Army in recognition of the fact that it consisted of one German and three Italian corps. Though Messe replaced Rommel, he diplomatically deferred to him, and the two coexisted in what was theoretically the same command. On 23 February Armeegruppe Afrika was created with Rommel in command. It included the Italo-German Panzer Army under Messe ([later ?]renamed 1st Italian Army) and the German 5th Panzer Army in the north of Tunisia under General Hans-Jürgen von Arnim." (Rommel page)

"On 9 March he returned to Germany ... Command was handed over to General Hans-Jürgen von Arnim. Rommel never returned to Africa.[116]" (Rommel page)

The next sentence of the second paragraph reads:

"Rommel retreated and then linked up with von Arnim creating a significant force to become the Fifth Panzer Army."

The 5th Panzer Army was created in December 1942 (5th Panzer army page). The Battle of Sidi Bou Zid, 14 - 17 Feb, was fought by 5th Panzer Army under Von Arnim and this army had linked with the Italo-German Panzer Army in the prelude to this (Battle of Sidi Bou Zid page.) The two Generals have equivalent commands but at the Battle of Kasserine Pass, 19 - 24, the 5th Panzer Army had apparently came under the command of Rommell, even though this predated the formation of the Army Group Africa (Kasserine Pass page). With the formation of Army Group Africa, it appears that the two axis Armies were reorganised along National lines, giving rise to the Italian 1st Army, from what had been the Italo-German Panzer Army. (Army Group Africa page)

Suggest replacing these two sentences with:

"In January 1943, the German-Italian Panzer Army, confronting the British 8th Army, had withdrawn Westward and linked up with the 5th Panzer Army under von Arnim, which had been confronting the advance of the British 1st Army from the West. Army Group Africa was formed, with the two Axis Armies under command of Rommel. In March, the Army Group received a beating from the 8th Army at Medenine and the formidable Mareth Line fell after Rommel's return to Germany."

Need to clear up the ambiguity with other pages (assuming they are correct) and make this suggestion in the spirit of providing a solution. Absolute newbie and don't know how to make a change so I am more that happy for somebody else to take up the baton.

Cinderella157 (talk) 11:17, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

fixed minor typo Cinderella157 (talk) 23:29, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

While I am at it, I think that the remainder of the paragraph would be improved by the addition of a couple of commas and breaking the last sentence in two. The need for the hyphen is an interpretation of its use that may be argued against by some.

Change:

In the central west north of Medjez el Bab and some thirty miles from Tunis, the First Army continued to fight for the dominating, German held peaks in the Medjerda Valley, this included a Massif with two highly strategic hills known as Djebel Ahmera and Dejebel Rhar.[7]

To:

In the central west, north of Medjez el Bab and some thirty miles from Tunis, the First Army continued to fight for the dominating, German-held peaks, in the Medjerda Valley. This included a Massif with two highly strategic hills known as Djebel Ahmera and Dejebel Rhar.[7]

I assume that the first comma has been correctly placed so as to be historically accurate.

Cinderella157 (talk) 23:41, 12 June 2014 (UTC) Cinderella157 (talk) 23:43, 12 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the help here and I will change this accordingly with use of your structure. Shire Lord 21:48, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Location coordinates
By the way ... the coordinates are: 36.735617,9.650066 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.140.225.167 (talk) 04:50, 28 February 2015 (UTC)