Talk:Battle of Mud Lake

Possible Updates
There are some updates that could be made to this page, I'll line them out below

Battle of Mud Lake vs. Skirmish, Mud Lake.
I'd like to see a reference for "Battle of Mud Lake".

For "Skirmish, Mud Lake, Nevada," I found
 * Philip D. Smith, "The Sagebrush Soldiers: Nevada's Volunteers in the Civil War," Nevada Historical Society Quarterly, Volume V, Nos. 3-4, 1962. An account of the "Expedition to Pyramid Lake", also know as "Skirmish, Mud Lake, Nevada".
 * "A compendium of the War of the Rebellion, Volume 1," (1908), p 987 "Skirmish, Mud Lake"
 * "United States Congressional serial set," (1901), p. 682 "Mud Lake, Nev., Skirmish"
 * Wells' 1865 report (see below) uses the word "Skirmish".

For "Battle of Mud Lake," I found:
 * "The Union Army: Cyclopedia of battles," (1908) states: "Mud Lake Nev March 14 1865 Detachment of 1st Nevada Cavalry Twenty nine men of the 1st Nev and 2 citizens under Capt AB Wells surrounded at daylight the camp of a band of Indians wanted for stealing cattle The Indians attempted to cut their way out but before the fight was over they had lost 29 killed and only 1 managed to escape Several of the attacking party were slightly wounded."
 * This is listed in a book about battles, does that make it a battle?
 * Gregory Michno, "Encyclopedia of Indian Wars: Western Battles and Skirmishes, 1850-1890,", (2003).
 * The index says on p. 431 "Mud Lake (Battle)"
 * p. 168 uses the word "battle"
 * Unfortunately, Michno's citation ("390") is not included in the Google preview, but it is probably Wells' report to Congress, see below.
 * I see other references to "Battle of Mud Lake" that seem to refer back to the Wikipedia article.

The Idaho State Historical Society reference does not seem relevant?
 * The Snake War, 1864-1868, Idaho State Historical Society Reference Series #236, 1966 is dead, I found it at http://history.idaho.gov/sites/default/files/uploads/reference-series/0236.pdf and https://web.archive.org/web/20110721042915/http://www.history.idaho.gov/Reference%20Series/0236.pdf. This citation does not seem relevant to this event?  The citation is about Idaho.  Should this be removed?

I propose that we discuss renaming this frome Battle of Mud Lake to Mud Lake Skirmish, which is earliest (1865) citeable historical name used by one of the military leaders (Wells).

Neutrality
This is a big issue. Sessions Wheeler spends several pages suggesting that Wells' and his men killed women and children. Wheeler cites several sources including Sarah Winnemucca.


 * Sessions S. Wheeler, "The Nevada Desert," (1971), p. 60 - p. 73.


 * Sarah Winnemucca Hopkins, "Life Among the Piutes: Their Wrongs and Claims," (1883) p. 76-78. In the chapter "Reservation of Pyramid and Muddy Lakes": "This reservation given in 1860 was at first sixty miles long and fifteen wide. The line is where the railroad now crosses the river and it takes in two beautiful lakes one called Pyramid Lake and the one on the eastern side Muddy Lake." ...  "In 1865 we had another trouble with our white brothers. It was early in the spring and we were then living at Dayton Nevada when a company of soldiers came through the place and stopped and spoke to some of my people and said, "You have been stealing cattle from the white people at Harney Lake'" They said also that they would kill everything that came in their way men women and children. The captain's name was Wells. The place where they were going to is about three hundred miles away. The days after they left were very sad hours indeed. Oh dear readers these soldiers had gone only sixty miles away to Muddy Lake where my people were then living and fishing and doing nothing to any one. The soldiers rode up to their encampment and fired into it and killed almost all the people that were there. Oh it is a fearful thing to tell but it must be told. Yes it must be told by me. It was all old men women and children that were killed for my father had all the young men with him at the sink of Carson on a hunting excursion or they would have been killed too. After the soldiers had killed all but some little children and babies still tied up in their baskets the soldiers took them also and set the camp on fire and threw them into the flames to see them burn alive. I had one baby brother killed there. My sister jumped on father's best horse and ran away. As she ran the soldiers ran after her but thanks be to the Good Father in the Spirit land my dear sister got away. This almost killed my poor papa. Yet my people kept peaceful."

It would be good to track down some of Wheeler's sources.

I'm happy to discuss the above changes so that we have a high quality article. Cxbrx (talk) 18:56, 31 December 2013 (UTC)