Talk:Battle of Nördlingen (1634)

Untitled
I changed Swedish infantry to Protestant infantry under Swedish command because no regiments from todays Sweden participated in this battle. 83.248.26.40 02:39, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that at least the five infantry brigades under the direct command of the swedisn were in fact swedish, i don't know the cavalry. But for example, the "swedish" infantry was deployed with the typical colours regiments (yellow, black and blue), contrary to the pure germans troops under the command of Weimar.

-fco — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.124.132.250 (talk) 10:51, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No, there were no regiments from Sweden proper present at the battle. 83.248.27.130 17:05, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

All the acounts, articles and books say that the the troops under the command of Horn was mainly swedish, can you provide us with sources that suport your afirmation?

-Fco — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bentaguayre (talk • contribs) 16:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * All Swedish and Finnish regiments are listed in the constitution of 1634. Their history is well documented, none of the Swedish regiments were present at Nördlingen (and as far as I know non of the Finnish either). The Swedish army in Germany consisted of both Swedish/Finnish regiments and regiments put up in Germany (with German, Dutch and Scottish mercenaries). If there's talk about Swedish regiments at Nördlingen it must have been hired troops. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.248.24.253 (talk) 23:50, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I started contributing to this page. First of all I removed some major mistakes in the right overview box: Date of battle: September 5 and 6 (not Sept. 6 and 7). The Entries under "Belligerents" needed to be restructured as well. At the time of the battle in 1634 the term "Bernadines" was not yet in use. Bernadines (german: "Weimaraner") firstly appeared, when Bernhard of Weimar led his troups into french service in 1635. It is also not correct, that Bernhard's troups in 1634 had a special "saxon-weimar" status. Instead Bernhard was General under swedish command and his troups belonged to the Heilbronn Alliance, consisting of the Swedes and their german-protestant allies under directorate of the swedish chancellor Axel Oxenstierna". Within contemporary official swedish regimental lists and correspondence, Bernhards army was called the "Frankonian Army", because of it's main area of operation and also because most of the regiments were levied in frankonian and thuringian countries. Consequently Horn's Army was called the "Swabian-Alsatian Army". It was merged of the former army of General Johan Banér (originally deployed in Swabia, but - because of Banér's injury at Alte Veste in Sept. 1632 - replaced by count-palatine Christian of Birkenfeld) and Gustav Horn's Alsatian Corps in January 1633.

Concerning the Swedes/swedish we have to distinguish between native Swedes and what was called the swedish party or just the "Swedish" in german common speech. Concerning the second issue all protestant troups under swedish command in Germany were called "Swedish" in contemporary common speech.

Following native swedish troops and other foreign mercenaries were present at Nördlingen Horns Army:
 * a swedish cavalry regiment under Colonel Ture Oxenstierna
 * a finnish cavalry squadron under Colonel Arvid Wittenberg
 * some finnish infantry companies under Colonel Arvid Forbes.
 * The Scots Infantry-Brigade at Nördlingen consisted of the regiments Col. William Gunn, Col. Henry Muschamp (Spens), Lt.Col. William Stewart (Mackay), Col. James Ramsay, Col. John Ruthven, Maj.-Gen. Patrick Ruthven and Col. Robert Cunningham.

Bernhards Army:
 * Some native swedish companies of the Yellow Infantry Regiment (Hofregiment)
 * two scottish companies in Bernhards green infantry regiment (liferegiment)
 * a scottish infantry regiment under Col. Ludovick Leslie.

All other swedish-protestant regiments were made up of german mercenaries!!

Unter paragraph "Battle" I also changed "Bernadines" to "Swedish left wing under command of duke Bernhard of Weimar".

I would like to continue working on this article, especially adding more references. One major reference the has to be considered with new changes on this article is the new book of Peter Engerisser and Pavel Hrncirik (released Oct. 2009), titled "Nördlingen 1634", containing all detailed figures and regimental histories as well as all spanish, italian, swedish, english and german primary sources. Even though it is writen in german language it has plenty of tables and figures to be understood by non german speaking persons. To my knowledge it can be obtained under the german amazon.de website. International availability needs to be checked out. Forquett (talk) 16:23, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Sources and numbers
I removed the geocities source and added one source from SMB [] and one from [], the first one is reliable since it is the Swedish military history library (Don't know how to translate that correct), the second one however, is supported by "Historien om Sverige: När Sverige blev Stormakt", a book by the Swedish historian Herman Lindqvist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Björnebacke (talk • contribs) 16:08, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Added another source on numbers and pre battle moves. Also added a second source about Imperials having numerical superiority although disagrees on exact figures Kurtk60 (talk) 14:01, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Saxons
I think the references to Saxons needs to be removed the army of the Elector of Saxony was near the Bohemian border under Marshal von Arnim no where near the battle. The troops under Bernards command were a very polygot mix of mercenaries mainly but by no means exclusively from germany and are referred to in most texts as 'bernadines' or mercenaries. Kurtk60 (talk) 23:34, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Additional Comments on the Battle and Aftermath
I suggest drawing more on Wedgwood's description of the battle. What I think is missing is how the Protestant command divided its forces, sending half on a wide-maneuver to push Imperialist forces off the high ground on the right. The attack initially drove in the enemy outposts, then lost cohesion and was driven back. Meanwhile, the Protestant left and center faced a strong majority on their section of front which proved overwhelming.

The chief result of Nordlingen is that France was forced into the war prematurely to take heat off the battered Swedes.

The Battle of Wittstock was fought in 1638, four years later, not two, after Nordlingen. After Wittstock, the Swedes steadily regained their dominance in most of Germany. As the bigger, stronger power, it is natural France would dominate any peace deliberations with the Hapsburg-Bavarian alliance. I doubt Nordlingen had much effect on that point

I'm surprised to learn so few native Swedish troops fought at Nordlingen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kongabonga11 (talk • contribs) 11:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)