Talk:Battle of Seven Oaks

Can you tell me where exactly does this take place please?
Thank you for the information, Lainie'''

Hmm...I guess that should be in the article! It took place in modern Manitoba, near Winnipeg. Adam Bishop 03:22, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I am from Winnipeg MB and to clarify further Seven Oaks is part of the Greater Winnipeg City.

Took place in Seven Oaks, near the junction of the Red and Assiniboine rivers, in the heart of what is now Winnipeg.


 * The battle took place in the northern part of the city, near where the Seven Oaks Museum now stands. A large log home was built in the area in 1851-53 by a man named John Inkster.  It is now one of the oldest extant residential buildings in Manitoba, and is the home of the museum.  It is located at 115 Rupertsland Blvd.  A lot of that same neighborhood is  known as Seven Oaks, with a number of businesses and an elementary school carrying the name.


 * The junction of the Red and Assiniboine Rivers (or the Forks) is approximately where Fort Gibralter (the Métis fort) stood, about 2.5 miles south of the battle scene, while Fort Douglas (the Hudson Bay Colony fort) was said to be a short distance north of the battle site, perhaps near Kildonan Park.
 * Couillaud 21:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

"Irish Paramilitary" and the Métis Perspective
Book is available from the Louis Riel Institute ,103-150 Henry Ave. Winnipeg, MB,Canada. ISBN 9780980991291 Battle of Seven Oaks, 2010 ISBN 9781927531082 Battle of Seven Oaks: A Metis Perspective Second Edition, 2015 also available at scribd.com/lbarkwell — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.71.176.29 (talk) 12:14, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Mr. Barkwell's book is not readily available, online or in the U.S.A. Its ISBN doesn't come up on any searches. While I do not doubt its existence (I've been looking for it since seeing an announcement on it), it does not enjoy a great circulation. This is why I said in my edit summary "cannot find evidence of book". I didn't mean it did not exist; I meant that I could not find the book to verify its evidence, and I wrote it out badly.

That said, please do not expect others to find your proof for you; it is your responsibility, an obscure source is difficult for others to find and verify, and sources used here should be readily verifiable. Giving me a Manitoba phone number to call does not fulfill that need. I do intend to purchase a copy for my collection, but it still cannot be fairly used to change accepted fact without providing some very convincing evidence.

It is accepted by both Anglophone and Francophone historians, as well as documented in testimony given to William B. Coltman during his investigation and at the trials at York, Upper Canada in 1818 that the HBC consisted of settlers. Calling the group an "Irish Paramilitary force" is (as Barkwell's title indicates) the Métis perspective. It is a legitimate claim unless disproved by historical fact or rejected by peer review, but it is the minority view in any case. We can make his viewpoint known, but it is not the only viewpoint. Let's list both, until or unless one can be shown to be overwhelmingly true. -- Couillaud 15:09, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Math Doesn't Add Up
In the "Battle" Section of the article, it states that the casualties were 1--21, yet in the summary box it states that the casualty numbers were 2--22. Clarification is needed. MattFromOntario (talk) 00:16, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Made the correction, official sources give 21-1 as the casualty figures. Couldn't find any other source (verifiable or otherwise) that gives 22-2 as the casaulty numbers. Mediatech492 (talk) 02:50, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, there were two fatalities on the side of the NWC. I will have to look them up, but there are references to a second death, of an unnamed Native American, and I believe it was described as "the Metis" lost only one man", with a peripheral mention of a Native American who may have only been traveling with the company and not actually a member of the NWC.  Since I don't have the data handy at this moment, however, I will not argue for change.  -- Couillaud 16:01, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Categorization as a "massacre"
Until a few weeks ago this article was categorized in both "Massacres of First Nations" and "Massacres by First Nations". Neither is correct. This conflict was not a "massacre" in the normal sense of that word. Instead it was an confrontation between two armed parties, which escalated to use of those arms by both sides. It was not a slaughter of unarmed parties perpetrated by armed parties. I therefore have removed the remaining categorization, that of "Massacres by First Nations", a category stated to be "for Massacres perpetrated mainly by First Nations, Inuit or Metis peoples". Such a judgment is unsupported by the text here. Kablammo (talk) 14:33, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Aftermath
This section does a good job of outlining the events that followed after the battle, although it is missing some important details. It fails to mention that the Selkirk settlement, morally defeated from the battle, packed up and left the settlement to go back to the provinces of Canada. This section also fails to mention the implications of the winners of the battle. For the North Westerners, their chief opponent was leaving the area, allowing them to flourish in the fur trade. As for the Metis, this was an early instance of the building of a nation - a bond that surpasses that of a company or family.

Justo Mendoza (talk) 02:23, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * There is no evidence of this, and your point contaisn a number of factual errors. There was no such mass departure from the Selkirk colony. Also the "provinces of Canada" did not exist at that time, they were the colonies of Upper Canada and Lower Canada. They did not become the "Province of Canada" until 1841. Furthermore the Selkirk settlers came from Scotland; therefore they could never have "returned" to the Canadas since they never came from there in the first place. Mediatech492 (talk) 15:14, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * From Gerald Friesen's The Canadian Prairies: A History page 80:


 * "On the morrow of the clash, the settlers, broken by the loss of family and friends and by the sight of the mutilated bodies, hastened to collect their belongings and depart. Cuthbert Grant, once more a clerk rather than a war captain, took an inventory of the goods left behind, signed the lists of thousands of items for hours on end, and, then, after two days of these last details, he watched the colonists sail northward, leaving his metis once more in command of the forks."


 * Friesen, Gerald. "Maintaining the Old Order 1805-44." In The Canadian Prairies a History, 80. Student ed. Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1987.


 * I need to edit an article as part of an assignment for my class, so I will be adding this information with the citation. Justo Mendoza (talk) 17:29, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

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Why is it published here? Creuzbourg (talk) 18:26, 14 December 2022 (UTC)