Talk:Battle of the Dalmatian Channels

Inaccuracies
There are some inexactnesses in this article, but one of them is significant: The Battle of Korčula channel didn't take place "around Šolta island, the port of Split, and the islands of Brač, Hvar and Korčula, between 14 and 16 November 1991". It took place at Korčula channel (between Hvar and Korčula - two islands inCroatia) on 16th of November 1991. The battle "around Šolta island, the port of Split, and the island(s) of Brač" happened on 14th and 15th of November 1991 at Split channel and Brač channel, in the vicinity of Split, Croatia. So, it preceded "Battle of Korčula channel" and in Croatia it is known as "Battle of Split channel". --Mjurin (talk) 19:24, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Two reliable sources (Slobodna Dalmacija and IKorcula) establish that the three engagements are part of the same action (see specially note #2 and the quotation there). I agree that Boj u Korčulanskom kanalu is the third phase of three days of battle between Croatian and Yugoslav navies, but given the lack of a collective name, I choose the name of the third and decisive engagement. I am open, however, to introduce a change of the title by consensus. I propose "Battle of Dalmatia channels" or something like that, perhaps a Croatian user could give us a better idea. I think that another possible solution, the split in two articles, would be not suitable to Wikipedia as per WP:POVFORK, given that at least two reliable sources take the three engagements as a single big event.--Darius (talk) 23:09, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * These are the words of Admiral Vid Stipetić which support the idea of a single battle: Pomorska bitka koja je započela 14.11. u popodnevnim satima ispred Splita, u Splitskom i Hvarskom kanalu nastavila se je 15. i 16. u Splitskom, Hvarskom, Neretvanskom i Korčulanskom kanalu. Ovo je bila najveća samostalna operacija HRM u Domovinskom ratu. IKorcula.net--Darius (talk) 23:15, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * A more simple solution could be just a change of headers; the attack on Mukos and the engagement off Split as part of the previous moves before a main section about the battle of Korčula. --Darius (talk) 23:23, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Redirect performed
The article is now redirected to a more suitable and comprehensive title. I guess things are more accurate now.--Darius (talk) 23:51, 9 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I've had a privilege to read some Croatian Navy classified documents in which are analysed these happenings. There are clear distinction between these two battles in that documents. The article in Slobodna Dalmacija clearly cites (several times) that first one is Battle of Split channel, eg. "nakon boja u Splitskom kanalu" (after the battle in the Split channel), "Boj u Splitskom kanalu" (Battle of Split channel) etc. The autor of this article is not a jurnalist. His name is Stjepan Bernardić (Navy Captain, retired) and he knows that happenings wery well because he was a member of Croatian Navy Headquarters in 1991. Beside that, in common daily conversation among Croatian Navy members there is also clear distinction between Battle of Split channel and Battle of Korčula channel. It's truth that it was "the biggest naval operation that Croatian Navy fought alone during the Homeland war" ("najveća samostalna operacija HRM u Domovinskom ratu") but there were two battles in that single operation.--Mjurin (talk) 09:07, 10 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi, Mjurin. Here in WP we rely on verifiable sources, not on "classified documents" or "common daily conversations". Admiral Vid Stipetić was a high officer of the Croatian Navy, he's cited by an online source and, as yourself recognize, he states that this was a single operation. Therefore, there is no problem to have a single article for the two battles.--Darius (talk) 11:31, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Can someone revert the order of maps?
OK, there are two maps. But the map of the 2nd phase of the battle is up, and map of the first phase of battle is down. Please, revert this. Current situation has no sense.


 * Nope, it's clear that there is no chronological order, since the map of the second (and decisive) phase of the battle is shown in the infobox, not in the article itself, while the first phase is on display on the appropiate section. I have on open mind on this, however, and if anybody can find a better image for the infobox, the maps should be shown on the article in a chronological order. Regards.--Darius (talk) 12:19, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Propaganda victory
Classic, but a classic lie!

The Yugoslav Navy was ordered to move all facilities in Montenegro and the whole purpose of the Croatian attack was to prevent the transfer of ships, weapons and ammunition, and to capture them. Not Yugoslav navy attacked but were attacked by the Croatian Army. The Yugoslav Navy has successfully completed the task, 99.99% of the ships, equipment and ammunition was moved to Montenegro and Croatia army failed in its intention.

So, Yugoslav Navy was ordered to move all capacities in Montenegro, emptied all warehouses and took all weapons, ammunition, and all boats and successfully completed the task and goal. Croatian army tried to prevent the transfer of ships, arms, ammunition and equipment, and failed in mission and goal.

If Navy wanted to go to Montenegro and Croatian army wanted to prevent the moving ships, warehouses and ammunition, and if the YU Navy successfully moved all this in Montenegro, who then won the battle and who loses? Who has achieved all its goals and who did not achieve a single goal?

Also, nothing was captured. Some ships and some equipment were repaired in civilian factories in Croatia and most of these ships and equipment was drawn in Montenegro and all that "captured" was in the Repair Facility and not in any kind of fight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.2.93.243 (talk) 16:48, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

GA review
GA review may be found at Talk:Battle of the Dalmatian channels/GA1

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 one external links on Battle of the Dalmatian Channels. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131002051859/http://www.nacional.hr/clanak/47548/talijanski-sud-oslobodio-iliju-brcica to http://www.nacional.hr/clanak/47548/talijanski-sud-oslobodio-iliju-brcica
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090923040416/http://narodne-novine.nn.hr:80/clanci/sluzbeni/1991_10_53_1265.html to http://narodne-novine.nn.hr/clanci/sluzbeni/1991_10_53_1265.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 23:09, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Battle of the Dalmatian Channels. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/69LrWYHWx?url=http://www.nacional.hr/clanak/47102/bitka-za-jedrenjak-jadran to http://www.nacional.hr/clanak/47102/bitka-za-jedrenjak-jadran
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131002133731/http://www.hrvatski-vojnik.hr/hrvatski-vojnik/1052006/prvi.asp to http://www.hrvatski-vojnik.hr/hrvatski-vojnik/1052006/prvi.asp
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://narodne-novine.nn.hr/clanci/sluzbeni/1991_10_53_1265.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131002133723/http://www.hrvatski-vojnik.hr/hrvatski-vojnik/772001/hrm.asp to http://www.hrvatski-vojnik.hr/hrvatski-vojnik/772001/hrm.asp

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 07:28, 16 July 2017 (UTC)