Talk:Battle of the Kodori Valley/Archive 1

Untitled
Can we expands this? --66.229.12.186 (talk) 07:35, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Confirmation
I do not have info that warfare is going on there at all-- TheFE ARgod (Ч) 11:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think all sides have said that some fighting has taken place (bombardments, etc.). We will have to wait and see how serious this will get. sephia karta  12:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * After searching google and surfing several articles. They say the Seppertist are sending 1000 troops and bombing The gorge.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.229.12.186 (talk) 13:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Russian involvement
There are no links in the article that confirm Russian army fights in Kodori. Shouldn't we either post some links to reliable (not only Georgian, but Russian too) sources, or delete Russia from the 'belligerents' part?195.2.84.114 (talk) 12:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)DR.InK

Ganmukhuri
Does anyone think the information in this article, "Abkhazian fighters plant flag inside Georgia", should be mentioned?

An AP reporter says a few dozen fighters from the separatist region of Abkhazia have moved into Georgian territory, planting their flag on a bridge over the Inguri River.

Khoikhoi 19:28, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think it definitely should be, but I am not sure whether this is the right article. Depending how big this is, it could get its own article, otherwise perhaps it belongs in the general 2008 South Ossetia War article. Plus there have been other incidents in Ganmukhuri (the staging of a Georgian summer camp iIrc), so the village should get its own article also in which this should be mentioned.
 * BTW I think the background here is that Ganmukhuri is administratively part of Georgia, but located on the west bank of the Inguri river that otherwise serves as the border. Hence the claim quoted in the article that it was historically Abkhaz territory. sephia karta  22:57, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Good point, but why don't you think this is the right article? If Ganmukhuri is not located in the Kodori Gorge then you would be correct, but I'm not sure whether it is or isn't. As for the summer camp, I believe you're talking about the Patriot camps (the Ganmukhuri camp incident is discussed there). Khoikhoi 03:45, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok, I just checked, apparently Ganmukhuri is in the Gali district, so that would make it not in the Kodori Gorge. I see what you mean now. Khoikhoi 03:57, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's in Zugdidi district (and near the border with Gali district). Alæxis¿question? 04:47, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Casualties
What are the casualties for all sides?ShaneMarsh (talk) 17:45, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

A total of 3 casualties seems less for what was several days of intese fighting Surely marksmanship can't be that bad! Am removing it until someone can get a better number.

Sparten (talk) 09:02, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone have other sources for the casulties ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.196.105.180 (talk) 21:11, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problem
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:21, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Apologies for removing substantial content from this article. The content had been added by a serial copyright violator. Some of the content was unquestionably copyright violations (word for word lifting from news sources). Other material has been removed on the presumption it is a copyright violation - these violations cannot be confirmed because the sources used are no longer accessible. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:21, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Casulties too low
More than 2650 georgian soldiers took positions around several hills, hiding anti tank batteries, anti tank guns and traps. The georgian army repelled 5 attacks led by russian special forces and followed by seperatist and russion infantry formations, supportet by MLRS's what seemed to be very uneffective. Casulties amongst the abkhazian seperatists and russian infantry soldiers can't be less than 150-380. Some sources state that only 2 georgians were killed during the fights. That is no wonder. If anyone ever saw the region, the georgians were defending, he will know what I am talking about. A direct assault on the Kodori Gorge is just insane —Preceding unsigned comment added by ComanL (talk • contribs) 00:11, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia should contain only verifiable information (as they say "verifiability, not truth"). Currently we have a source saying about 2 and 1 casualties. When (and if) other info will appear in the media or somewhere else we'll add that information to the article. Alæxis¿question? 04:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well fact is, that the georgians repelled 5 russian-abkhaz attacks before they retreated from there. Russian forces never retreated without casulties they couldn't deal with instantly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ComanL (talk • contribs) 20:46, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

какой нах батл? грызунки ломанулись как стрекозлы вот и весь батл. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.151.28.200 (talk) 12:07, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with ComanL, casulties from Abkhazian and Russian troops should be more than 1 killed. So I suggest to write Uknown in the "Casualties and losses" section, as wikipedia should contain only verifiable information. –BruTe Talk 08:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That would violate WP:OR. The current figure is referenced by a source. sephia karta |  dimmi  16:48, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Could you reference? –BruTe Talk 07:06, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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Mention of the fact that Georgian army wasn't supposed to be there?
Based on the reactions section of 2006 Kodori crisis, where Russians and Abkhazians accused Georgia of violating previous agreements on not having troops in Kodori Gorge, and Georgians themselves denying that there are any troops in the area, and haven't violated the 1990s ceasefire, isn't it at least worth noting how 2500 Georgian troops suddenly appear where they were not supposed to be, or at least would have constituted a violation of said ceasefire? (To my knowledge, at the time this battle started, the Russian-Georgian war was still confined to South Ossetia, and Georgia still had no justification for sending troops into Kodori Gorge, since before this war the Abkhazian and South Ossetian conflicts were governed by completely separate ceasefires) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.139.99.53 (talk) 01:02, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Russian troop numbers
, re this edit, could you clarify how you arrived at the figure of 3,000? I found the following in the Red Star article you added as the source

состоящая из пяти батальонов десантников группировка генерала Шаманова

From the context, it appears that it refers to all the Russian forces active on the Abkhazian front. The article mostly talks about the action in Senaki and Poti. Five battalions may amount to 3,000 troops but it can also be less or more.

В 4.00 [12 августа] БТГр 247-го полка начинает марш на Хаиши и к вечеру берет под контроль вход в Кодорское ущелье со стороны Грузии.

This is the only mention of the Russian forces participating in the Battle of the Kodori Valley even though they were not in the valley itself and were blocking it rather than actively fighting. The article doesn't say what is the strength of this БТГр (батальонная тактическая группа) but it's only a part of the whole force. Alaexis¿question? 08:31, 9 August 2021 (UTC)


 * , well on the Georgian side, not the entire 5th brigade was actively involved either. 2,500 is the approximate number of combat troops in a Geo brigade. But fair point. Let's change that then to what's written. TheMightyGeneral (talk) 13:35, 10 August 2021 (UTC)


 * I think we can make it even more specific, please see my edit. If Georgian numbers can be made more precise that would be great too. Alaexis¿question? 08:26, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Part of the problem is that the scope of the article is not clear: it's named the battle of the Kodori Valley but also has a section on the subsequent operations. Alaexis¿question? 08:36, 11 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Then let's do the same for the Georgian side as well all sides involved. I will try to find more accurate information on the Georgians.TheMightyGeneral (talk) 11:36, 11 August 2021 (UTC)