Talk:Batu Khan

Old talk
The Mongols' horses were of the Tatar breed, a breed of horse that is able to find food by brushing the snow aside with its nose. The horses used by the Europeans would starve. WheahYooAt, June 18, 2005, 04:05 UTC

   The Tatar cavalry was superbly disciplined and their weapons were superior to any in Europe. Their arrows were longer and heavier. The Mongol horde entered Russia in 1237.

"The villages disappeared, and the heads of the Russians fell like grass before the sickle."

The majority of Europeans were either monks, hired servants, or slaves. Only the nobility and the free men were armed. Feudalism prevailed in Europe.

Alexander Nevski dismissed all thoughts of battling the Mongol tornado of war.  WheahYooAt 16:16, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)

Breakneck speed was a quality that was manifested by the Golden Horde. The main unit of the army was preceded by thousands of Mongols who constructed roadways.

Breakneck speed was a quality that was manifested by the Germans at the onset of World War II, also. The Nazi troops rode motorized vehicles as they performed their Blitzkrieg ("Lightning War").

WheahYooAt 12:29, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)
 * Idiotic comparison. The Mongol tactics have no similarity whatsoever with a modern mechanized army. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.46.18 (talk) 12:23, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Aftermath
I can't say that Russia was ruled 'directly'. Had it been the case, there would have been no local princes. Wydraf 10:12, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Sartak

 * Unable to find leader Sartak. WheahYooAt, June 18, 2005,13:42 UTC


 * Sartak may have been a Christian son of Batu. 68.162.175.51 18:33, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Great Khans list

 * 1. Genghis Khan (1162-1227)  (Named Temu-jin, originally).  He united all of the nomadic Mongol tribes in 1206.
 * 2. &Ouml;gedei Khan (also called Ogotai)  Sent out three armies in 1235.
 * 3. G&uuml;y&uuml;k Khan  WheahYooAt 17:43, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)
 * 4. Mangu Khan  ( -1259)  Succeeded by his brother, Kublai Khan.
 * 5. Kublai Khan ( -1294)  (Also called Khubilai Khan)  The son of Tuli Khan.  He declared himself Emperor of China in 1280.

Kublai Khan was the last of the Great Khans. A new title of Emperor began. His successor, Timur, his grandson, the second Emperor, ruled from 1294-1306. Kublai Khan had established the Yuen (which meant "a Mongol," and hence an alien) dynasty. He had fought and defeated the Tatars in 1260 and founded the city of Khan Balig (Kambalu) which was the nucleus of Peking. His defeat of the Tatars and the establishment of a capital city effectively shattered the Mongols sphere of influence into four great divisions. 

The third Emperor, Kaisun, accomplished little during his short reign (1307-10).

Ayuli Palpata, the fourth Emperor, a dedicated Buddhist, spent vast sums on priests and ceremonies, and grinding taxation resulted during his reign (1311-20). 

In 1367, during the reign of the ninth Emperor, a temple servant named Chu Yuan-chang, at the head of a large army overthrew the Yuen. The Ming or Illustrious dynasty (1368-1643) replaced The Yuen. 

151.201.131.24 14:20, 12 July 2005 (UTC) WheahYooAt

In history, the title Khan has been used in a variety of ways in widely-separated geographical areas. Its origin is uncertain. It has been modified into terms such as Ka-Khan, Il-Khan, Tar-Khan, Gur-Khan, and Ir-Khan.

The term khan has been applied to an unfurnished inn that afforded temporary shelter to merchants and travelers. A caravanserai or caravansery is the type of place in which Christ was born.


 * The term KHANATE is of European origin. 21:04, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

68.162.175.51 20:30, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Batu Khan was also known as Sain Khan, ("the good prince").

WheahYooAt 13:11, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)


 * Sartaq Khan contains the facts. 71.253.56.204 18:53, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

An Early Emperor
Although Kublai Khan declared himself Emperor in 1280, the first Emperor of China had appeared in the third century B.C. at the Ts'in dynasty from which China is named. WheahYooAt 00:56, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC) WheahYooAt 02:48, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)


 * That would be the Qin Dynasty, led by Qin Shi Huang. In the MoS, you may note that pinyin (Qin instead of Ts'in, Yuan instead of Yuen) is preferred unless the name is very popularly known through W-S or some other notation (e.g. Confucius instead of Kong Fuzi.) siafu 15:50, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

The correct spelling of Chernihiv
Please note that the correct English spelling of the city name is Chernihiv. The city has been never renamed. The name Chernihiv is applied by respectable English sources to the whole history of the city. Please note that Britannica reffer to the spelling Chernigov as to Russian. Let's use British/American English. Please do not invent "Russian English". Thanks.--AndriyK 09:33, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * replied at talk:Chernihiv. --Irpen 17:04, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Speculation
I commented out the following section from the article:"It is very clear militarily that had the Kipchak Khanate attacked the remainder of Europe in 1241, after their destruction of the Hungarian and Polish forces, they would have easily crushed Austria, Germany, Italy, France and Spain. Only the death of the great Khan, and the subsequent enmity between cousins saved Europe. Each year the Poles celebrate the Battle of Leignitz as a great victory that saved Europe from the Mongols.  The truth is, it was a terrible defeat for the Poles, showed the utter uselessness of the European Knights and their 'Battles' as a basis for armies against the Mongol grinder.   While European rulers lead their armies and considered honor as a prime consideration for any battle, the Mongols were interested solely in winning.  While the Europeans were loosely organized, to put it mildly, in their 'battles,' (Knights and their yeomen), Mongols fought in a modern army formation based on units of 10, 100, 1000, and 10,000. Mongols had mastered the use of flags during a battle to dictate troop movement, and other innovations that Europeans would not use for another 200 years. Luckily for Europe, Batu Khan died in 1255, just as he was preparing to finally invade Europe using Subutai's plans. His son might have carried out his father's plan, but he also died shortly thereafter, and by the time Hulagu Khan sacked Bagdad, Batu's brother Berke had become Kipchak Khan."This is not, by and large, factual information and can't be presented as such. I'm not suggesting, of course, that's it's a ridiculous supposition, but it presents a particular POV as fact.  In order for this paragraph to be acceptable for an encyclopedia it needs to be referenced and attributed, so that it's not original research, and rewritten to reflect its origins, so that's it's NPOV. siafu 01:58, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Hold your horses! Excuse the pun. Have you checked the population estimates by region/country of Europe (medieval sourcebook offers something from an economic study of europe in the middle ages). From Spain to Italy was about 50 million people. Hungary had between 1.5 and 2 million people. Poland had 2 or 3. Are you sure this speculation isn't laughable. How many more Mohis and Liegnitzs would the Mongols have to win let alone reducing the fortresses (which they couldn't in Hungary or Silesia). Laughable idea, though a popular one, that Ogedei's death saved Europe... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.155.56.25 (talk) 08:43, 11 January 2012 (UTC)


 * They most certainly could have reduced fortresses - but when the Mongols invaded Hungary they were moving fast, and had left their siege engines and Chinese specialists to operate them in Russia/Ukraine. They were trying to catch the remainder of the Cumans and while in Hungary had no time for long sieges. Ogedei's death did indeed save central Europe from a nasty route, had Subotai continued his campaign. Holding on to the area with garrisons would have been another matter, as the Mongols were over-extended. HammerFilmFan (talk) 05:32, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Not on topic
IMO this article is totally off topic. It reads more like a general "invasion of europe" article than the one about Batu Khan that it is suppose to be. We should take away most of the stuff here. At least site the sources. ParallelPain 09:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it should be rewritten. He did more than the invasion of Europe.--Enerelt (talk) 09:46, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

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Inline cites
Not much in the way of inline cites in this article, are there? AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 23:49, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
 * It's a very, very badly written article that meanders all over the place and has many factual errors. I've re-written many of the Mongol articles, but just don't have the energy anymore. Wiki is so full of crap it's astouding.50.111.46.18 (talk) 12:26, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Languages for the name
We seem to be over-doing the alternative languages for Batu Khan's name. I couldn't immediately find the WP:MOS page that addresses the issue (I assume one exists), but MOS:NICKCRUFT gives Batu's grandfather Genghis Khan as an explicit example and says to not use any foreign languages, not even Mongolian. I'll follow that example and remove the clutter. Huon (talk) 22:06, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It's OK to remove them. However we can add common alternative names/languages used in academic sources to the article. --Wario-Man (talk) 04:56, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Temporary lockdown
There are some internet jokes being made about batu khan so i say a temporary lockdown is necessary to prevent vandalism Greatfloorpads (talk) 21:06, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The article should have been extended confirmed months ago. I raised concerns but sadly they fell on deaf ears. - Hunan201p (talk) 13:58, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * im guessing this is about ambatukam? TheEpicChickenYT (talk) 23:02, 22 September 2023 (UTC)