Talk:Bawa Muhaiyaddeen

July 2008 Major Re-Write
I have re-written the article with the intention of addressing the issues regarding POV, dubious assertions, and NoFootNotes. I will remove the POV and NoFootNotes flags unless I hear comments that need to be addressed (and maybe will go ahead anyway). MilpitasGraham (talk) 00:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Quotes section
Should we have one, or should that be relegated to a wikiquotes link? 68.125.54.140 (talk) 03:52, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I added an extensive Wikiquotes page and link, but left three examples of quotes for the casual reader. MilpitasGraham (talk) 00:20, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Dubious assertions
There are a lot of these in the article. I particularly find it unlikely that five major religions would consider him a saint. Clarityfiend 11:44, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I cleaned up the article, added a lot of references to support the assertions, and found a source that describes Bawa Muhaiyaddeen as 'saintly'. There may still be some 'gushing' prose, but it does read better. MilpitasGraham (talk) 00:24, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Clarification requested
Please be more specific in your assertion that there are lots of dubious assertions in the article so that they may be corrected or clarified. I agree that it is unlikely that five major religions would consider him a saint. However, the statement of the article "Certain scholars and leaders from the Islamic, Judaic, Christian, Hindu and Sikh communities considered him a saint." derives from comments of scholars and leaders within those religions and is broadly documented. Furthermore, followers, many of whom are still in the Philadelphia area, are a diverse population of Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, at least and there are probably some Sikhs somewhere. That would make it six religions and by your standard, even more dubious. I visited Sri Lanka at the time of the tsunami and met followers of Bawa Muhaiyaddeen there who were Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists who considered him of saintly stature. The head of the Serendib Sufi Study Circle in Jaffna, Sri Lanka, is a practicing Hindu as are people that care for his ashram there and a Mosque by the sea in a village called Mankumban which is located on Kayts Island. The Islam of Bawa Muhaiyaddeen appears to be an inclusive rather than exclusive practice of Islam, for which there is criticism in some circles.

In both Sri Lanka and the U.S. there were more than a few occurrences witnessed which could fall under the category of "miracle" assuming one accepts the existence of such. The population of witnesses is aging and his followers seem unable or unwilling to publicly document them in the first person. They do discuss them anecdotally face-to-face.

I apologize if this edit is in improper format, but I was searching Bawa Muhaiyaddeen on the Wikipedia and this dubious assertions caught my eye. George 01:30, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


 * You claim that it is "broadly documented." Where? I don't see a single source or reference for any claim in the entire article. Anecdotes are not acceptable as substantiation in Wikipedia. Who are these "certain scholars and leaders"? Why aren't they named? The whole article is filled with vague generalities. Clarityfiend 09:57, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Regarding "dubious assertions"; a "saint" is whomever that word/concept is applied to within, or after, their lifetime. As regarding M. R. Bawa Muhaiyaddeen, I quote [from the Philadelphia Inquirer, October 1, 2000]; The picture in Islam is mixed, according to Charles Panati, author of Sacred Origins of Profound Things. While the orthodoxy "forbids any consortship with Allah," Panati writes, folk beliefs and most mystical Sufi orders revere a rare breed of saints known as wali, or "friends" of Allah, who are said to have achieved charismatic and miraculous powers.


 * For years, in fact, Philadelphia was the home of a Sri Lankan sage, Bawa Muhaiyaddeen, who many Sufis believe "was the first Muslim saint who died in North America," says Imam Muhammad Abdur-Razzaq Miller. When "the Bawa" died in 1986, his followers, many of them Westerners, placed his body in a domed sepulcher in East Fallowfield that has become a Sufi pilgrimage site. His chair and bed remain on display, untouched, at the mosque he founded, Bawa Muhaiyaddeen Fellowship in Overbrook.


 * Imam Miller, the center's leader, says many of the members feel the Bawa still protects and counsels them "in the unseen realm."


 * The Hadith writings, he says, “speak of reaching a state of paradise before you die and passing a judgment while on Earth.” The Bawa said perhaps one person in 200 million can reach that state. . . . They become a saint by removing what is other than God from them and . . . remain inwardly and outwardly pure in their efforts" both before and after death.


 * Imam Miller likened the walis to Allah's "adjutant generals, a hierarchy of saints who carry out the commandments. The right protocol is to ask God's blessing for the saint and for all God's people. Because of the influence of the saint, and if your prayer is good, it is likely to be granted. Benefits come from honoring the person."


 * Khalid Blankenship, a Muslim scholar who chairs Temple University's religion department, said belief in walis remains widespread, if a bit weakened by literacy and modernization drives in the Muslim world. He found it interesting that members of the Bawa fellowship, many of them modern converts, "have reproduced the piety of the old world." --Sufiheart 23:56, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * After a major re-write of the text, I believe this topic should be re-visited. Unless I hear comments that require attention, I intend to remove the POV and NoFootNotes flags.

MilpitasGraham (talk) 00:29, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

First Muslim Saint Who Died in North America
There was a recent edit to add "His followers regard him as the first ever Sufi saint to be buried in the United States." I could find no citation for the belief of his followers in this regard. There have been other Sufis who have been highly regarded and buried in the US prior to the death of Bawa Muhaiyaddeen in 1986 according to the web-sites http://www.aulia-e-hind.com/dargah/Intl/USA.htm and http://www.mysticsaint.info/2008/03/sufi-shrines-in-america.html. I have extracted three examples:


 * Hazrat Shah Maghsoud Sadegh Angha (1916 – 1980) is the forty-first Sufi Master of the Oveyssi Sufi Order. His tomb is in Valley Memorial Park Cemetery, 650 Bugeia Lane, Novato, California 94945


 * The tomb of Hazrat Shah Maghsoud Sadegh Angha (1916 – 1980), in Valley Memorial Park Cemetery, 650 Bugeia Lane, Novato, California 94945. He was the forty-first Sufi Master of the Oveyssi School.


 * The maqbara of Sufi Ahmad Murad Chisti (Samuel Lewis)(1896–1971) is at Lama Foundation Road, off Taos County Road B-014, Questa, New Mexico, north of Taos Pueblo.

Since there is ample evidence of other Sufi sheikhs buried in the US prior to 1986, I will revert this edit. MilpitasGraham (talk) 02:01, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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