Talk:Beşiktaş J.K.

First president
In the list of club presidents, the first name to occur is M. Samil Osmanoglu, while the club web site states Mehmet Şamil Bey. Was Bey president for a very short time or is there some other explanation for this discrepancy? /Dcastor 23:31, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * 'Bey' means 'Mr.'
 * Ah, simple explanation. Thankyou. /Dcastor 01:12, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Achievement section
I just added to "Note" that 2 winnings were accepted by Turkish football federation as equivalent winning of Turkish Premier League. This decision was taken in the meeting which was held on 20 March 2002.

Ataturk and Besiktas
I propose to add a new section which includes the relation between Ataturk and Besiktas. How will we proceed?


 * honestly, i'm really not sure which team he supported and there's only very little evidence that he might have supported besiktas. i don't think we should create a new section, but perhaps just mention that "he is thought to have supported besiktas, because..." --Ademkader (talk) 14:19, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Turkish Super League
I nominated the article of Turkish Super League to be the next article to be upgraded by the Wikipedia community. Please go to this page and vote for our league. We need at least 3 votes to win!.Haydi Beyler, Deliogul 16:39, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Sovyetler Birliği milli takımının article'ına yenildik bu hafta ama bir dahaki hafta için şansımız devam ediyor.Yukardaki linke tıklayıp bir oy atın da Süper Lig'i featured article yapalım. Deliogul 11:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Zaferrr!
Turkcell Super League article is choosen as the football collaboration of the week! Please help expanding the article. Oy atanlara büyük teşekkür. Deliogul 14:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The squad needs fixing, I went into the old versions just for a minute and there are a ton of old revisions, I have no idea which is right but some are clearly very wrong. I have no idea which is right, but someone needs to fix it.

Flags and infobox
Please note that as per WP:FLAGS, flags can be used as biographical indicators, and that a consensus must be reached on the talk page. I myself feel they are not distracting as they denote the nationality of each coach and member. Beşiktaş is a team that signs many different coaches and players from all over the world. Monsieurdl Talk 14:02 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * How do you reconcile this with "The use of flag icons in the birth and death information in a biographical article's introduction and/or infobox is strongly deprecated" in WP:FLAGS? Alexf (Talk/Contribs) 16:17, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Birth and death dates for a living Manager and a Coach? It does not exist on this page, and therefore that point does not apply. I don't get that reference.

Special care should be taken with the biographical use of flag templates in the following situations:


 * Never use a flag for birth or death place, since doing so may imply an incorrect citizenship or nationality. No birth or death places in infobox.
 * Do not use the flag and name of the former country in a case of reliably-sourced renunciation of citizenship of that country. No renunciation at all.
 * Do not use the flag and name of the former (or later) country where is is unknown whether legal citizenship applied (or applies); in particular, a recent immigrant from one country to another should not be automatically given the nationality (much less flag) of the second country. For example, Alex Pagulayan, a Filipino-Canadian who recently emigrated permanently to the Philippines, will sometimes be listed with the Canada flag templates and sometimes with those of the Philippines in tournament charts, depending upon the time period, but should have his nationality or citizenship (with or without a flag) as "Canadian" in his infobox as he is not yet a Philippine citizen. Legal citizenship is not in dispute.
 * If someone's citizenship has legally changed because of shifting political borders, use the historically correct country designation, not a later one, and perhaps mention in the article prose the new country name, e.g. "Belgrade, Yugoslavia (today in Serbia)"; it may also be best to avoid using any flag at all. No change, citizenship established.
 * Use the flag and name of the country (be it a state or a nation) that the person (or team of people) officially represented, regardless of true citizenship, when the flag templates are used for sports statistics and the like. If a French player is awarded a medal for playing in a German team, the German flag would be used in a table of awards. The Scottish flag would be used with regard to the FIFA World Cup, but that of the UK for the Olympics. Caution should be used in extending this convention to non-sporting contexts, as it may produce confusing results. And a countervailing example would be an article about a sports team that officially represents a particular country but is composed of members who are citizens of several countries; a table of players at such an article might list them by their country of actual citizenship or professed nationality. They officially represent their countries in a sports context.
 * Avoid flag usage, especially to present a point of view, that is likely to raise editorial controversy over political or other factual matters about a biography subject. No controversy of facts.

You have no leg to stand on as nothing applies as I stated. Monsieurdl Talk 17:24 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Notable Fans
Someone cite a source for Pervez Musharraf, President of Pakistan being a fan of the club. Maajid 17:37, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Done. That was way too simple! Monsieurdl 18:14, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Stadium Capacity
TFF claims it is 32,086 but official BJK cites its 32,145. can someone find which is true? thanks!
 * i think the difference is negligible. --Deprem 14:41, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Here is a new clue: My boss told me that TFF is certainly true because they inform and update UEFA about all club facts such as capacity, squad, techincal staff etc... So we would rather take TFF datas as reference. --umi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.101.98.249 (talk) 14:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Articles in red
Hi folks, In my opinion, we must keep undefined articles without angle brackets ([ ]) till we find enough information to define them. Because they do not look good at all. For example: Former coaches and presidents. Just check Former Milan Managers and you fill get what i mean. Cheers! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Umi1903 (talk • contribs) 15:47, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Carsi Hooligans
Can someone please put up something about the carsi grubu under supporters or create a new article for it because i am no good at editing on wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.138.43 (talk) 02:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

--I started adding a couple of things, but i agree, there has to be a new article about it. i don't really have lots of references/facts regarding the group so i can't really start a whole new article. --Ademkader (talk) 18:09, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

History Section
Hello fellas,

we need to expand the history section. please try to find some info from various websites. BJK history not only till early 20th century !!! --Umi1903 (talk) 00:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Userboxes
Just created a new userbox for Besiktas fans.

--Ademkader (talk) 02:59, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Besiktas and Ataturk
Someone that knows how to edit on wikipedia really needs to add a section about Ataturk's suport of Besiktas. I know that when he went off to war he left his family at the Besiktas club building. Also someone needs to create an article about the carsi
 * For Carsi, I'm on the way of it. But for Ataturk, we need some solid sources to pose his name here. If we could justify it, it would be a perfect pleasure to put his name here for sure !! WE MUST FIND SOURCES ! --Umi1903 (talk) 12:14, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

African players
I think there should be a section to introduce the players with African roots that played at Besiktas ! Besiktas had a lot of players with African roots they even had a manager with African roots >> Jean Tigana

i think many BJK-supporters are proud to have seen players like Pascal Nouma at their squad :)

Redman19 (talk) 13:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I think dark skinned players is more suitable then Redman19 (talk) 19:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This is inappropriate! I disagree with this idea cause this is an absolute race discriminating! You might like black players as much as i do but this does not allow you to split them and relish their name, not lovely at all... If you do that, people can either think that you support positive discrimination or you abuse the black races ironically.
 * All in all, this section must be removed! I am barely waiting for aspects. --Umi1903 (talk) 20:54, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok i removed it Redman19 (talk) 22:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for attention. By the way, the managerial table which you created is also have some missings such as Austrian coach Melchior. Could you take a look? For me, we rather expand the history section than concluded parts such as managers. And I think this table is also unneccessary because there are lots of managers (almost 60) and the cells of table are really big, this cause the table to lay on too much. --Umi1903 (talk) 12:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

As far as i know Melchior succeeded Recep Adanir to finish off the season this is the reason i did not mention the interim coaches or coaches that were at the team for 4 months :) i only mention the managers that were appointed to coach a whole season, before i made this table, the managers area was a mess, it also look awful, i think adding those names in a table made it a lot better. Redman19 (talk) 15:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Fahri Tatan
Fahri Tatan transferred to Konyaspor, so I removed him from the list. He was a good player. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.3.224.9 (talk) 14:38, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

First sports club
It wasn't the first.It was the first Turkish. --Ioannes Tzimiskes (talk) 18:01, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

78.171.1.13 <= This asshole keeps causing vandalism

League Position Chart
Can we make a chart showing BJK's historical league position? We could highlight a few milestones such as the undefeated season, first champs league appearance etc too. please see the manchester united example here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Manchester_United_League_Performance_1893-2008.PNG Ademkader (talk) 02:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Record defeat
People keep removing Besiktas's record 0-8 Champions League defeat to Liverpool in 2007 from the page.

Please will those who do so please justify why they think this isn't a notable record that should be included in an encyclopedia. It is listed on the Liverpool F.C. page as the record Champions League victory (and presumably if Besiktas has won the game by the same 8-0 margin it would be on the Besiktas page). Just because it was a deflating loss and record for Besiktas supporters does not mean that the biggest loss in the biggest international club competition in the world isn't notable and worthy of inclusion. Ericoides (talk) 09:20, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That match isn't the biggest defeat in the history of Champions League. There has been 10-0 and 8-0 defeats before, so it is neither the first, nor the biggest defeat.  EinderiheN (talk) 12:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks for the information, although I believe it was the biggest at the time. Cheers, Ericoides (talk) 13:03, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Erkan Zengin
To whoever keeps changing the flag by his name, stop doing it. Until he has played for the Turkish national team, if he ever will, his flag should remain that of Sweden as that was the last nation he represented internationally. This is how it is supposed to be under Wikipedias WP:MOSFLAG guidelines. 81.231.155.144 (talk) 20:45, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

League name
The correct name for the league that Besiktas plays in is the Türkcell Süper Lig, or Süper Lig, not Turkish Super League. Real Madrid and other Spanish clubs play in La Liga, not the Spanish League. I have corrected all instances of the inaccurate name and changed them to Süper Lig. Monsieur dl   mon talk 00:47, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Logo
The article states that besides Besiktas only Karşıyaka S.K. has the right to have the Turkish flag in their emblem. I also see the flag in the logo of Bursaspor and Konya Şeker S.K.. So I doubt the statement. Miho (talk) 19:27, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Wrong Information, please correct "The club's football team, the oldest in the country"
Beşiktaş were founded as gymantics club and they had a football team only in 1911, predated by several Turkish teams who are still active (Galatasaray being the oldest one) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.234.204.5 (talk) 02:25, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 9 November 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Procedural close: as many of the oppose !votes have noted, this will need to be done for all Turkish football clubs and WikiProject Football might want a wider input. I advise the nominator to go to WT:FOOTY and create a centralised discussion there so a consensus can be established. No prejudice to speedy renomination should consensus be gained there. (closed by non-admin page mover)  SITH   (talk)   12:39, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

– Correct name is without dots as per official club sources and Turkish naming rules. Can be confirmed through club's official online presence. Also in line with WP naming conventions guidelines for sports teams and was discussed on WikiProject Football. Junk2711 (talk) 01:43, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Beşiktaş J.K. → Beşiktaş JK
 * Beşiktaş J.K. (athletics) → Beşiktaş JK (athletics)
 * Beşiktaş J.K. (men's basketball) → Beşiktaş JK (men's basketball)
 * Beşiktaş J.K. (women's football) → Beşiktaş JK (women's football)


 * Oppose no consensus in WP:Footy. Also mass move dot to without dot that affect the consistency among 100+ Turkish clubs, is not a good way to start individual moving thread such as this one and another in Talk:Fenerbahçe S.K.. Matthew hk (talk) 07:32, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose Per Matthew hk. Also, this sort of change needs to be done en masse via a centralised discussion rather than individual clubs at a time. Number   5  7  12:11, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Support but not procedurally I think the abbreviations should be considered on a country by country basis, as the Balkan domestic teams/Eastern European teams certainly don't use periods in their Wikipedia articles (GNK Dinamo Zagreb, AEK Athens), and the typical way of reading Turkish football team names is without the periods. But I agree this should be done centrally. SportingFlyer  talk  12:42, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose - I agree that all clubs should be moved to titles without dots, but this isn't the correct method for gaining the consensus to do so. – PeeJay 12:44, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 13:12, 9 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose as above - whatever naming convention is decided, it needs to be constant for all Turkish clubs. There needs to be a central discussion, not a bunch of ill thought out RMs. There is no consensus anywhere that we should not use dots, not any evidence presented that dots are not used. GiantSnowman 13:17, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Apologies if this isn't the correct way to request this then. If someone can start a centralized process I would appreciate it. Otherwise I'll just leave it as it seems like too much of a hassle to correct something simple. As we discussed earlier, this affects a minority of Turkish clubs and only a handful in the league. Not sure how you get 100+ clubs. Actually there are sources at the mentioned discussion, and the link I used on this page leads to that specific section on WikiProject Football. The point there is that the naming convention for Turkish names is not for us to decide as it has already been decided by Turkish naming rules, making the use of dots incorrect and not just a matter of preference or convention. -Junk2711 (talk) 22:39, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * As we previously discussed, Turkish naming rules are relevant to tr.wiki, but not en.wiki. (it was also pointed out to you that this would need a centralised discussion not individual RMs, so it's disappointing to see you ignored that advice). Cheers, Number   5  7  11:34, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I don’t recall any mention against individual RMs but I did start a centralized discussion. Maybe you could assume good faith and consider that this specific type of move is not something that everyone might have experience in. As I pointed out earlier, the whole point of mentioning the Turkish naming rule is to show that having “J.K.” is incorrect and not the same as in English where you can have either FC or F.C. We can’t just make “SK” become “SC”, “FK” become “FC” - these would also not be the correct name. You can’t change or Anglicize a name for consistency. If there is an article for someone with the Turkish name Muhammet, does there name become Mohammed on en.wikipedia? No. I would ask you to please start a centralized discussion for this topic in the appropriate manner. Thanks. -Junk2711 (talk) 21:13, 15 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Support per nom and SportingFlyer. I believe however that we must change it also for the other clubs. Linhart (talk) 23:26, 11 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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