Talk:Beaumont-Hamel Newfoundland Memorial

CorenSearchBot
The bot CorenSearchBot tagged Beaumont-Hamel Newfoundland Memorial as a poosible duplicate article of Beaumont-Hamel. This is not the case and article Beaumont-Hamel Newfoundland Memorial should have been created as an article in it's own right. A summary section is however being left on the Beaumont-Hamel article. Labattblueboy (talk) 17:09, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

sub-articles that may need be created
Sub elements of the park which will likely require sub-articles

Cemeteries:
 * Hawthorn Ridge No. 2 Cemetery ✅
 * Y Ravine Cemetery ✅
 * Hunter's Cemetery ✅

Other Memorials located on site: Labattblueboy (talk) 22:35, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 51st (Highland) Division Monument (Beaumont-Hamel) ✅
 * 29th Division Memorial - not needed


 * Creation of sub-pages complete --Labattblueboy (talk) 18:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Merge proposal
Proposed merge of Danger Tree into Beaumont-Hamel Newfoundland Memorial based on Good Article Nomination suggestion. Any opposition? --Labattblueboy (talk) 12:31, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Excess Material
Although significantly understrength, the Newfoundland Regiment continued to see service and after taking on reinforcements was back in the front line on 14 July near Auchonvillers.(Nicholson p. 284) On 17 July the 88th Brigade was transferred to a quieter portion of the Western Front.(Nicholson p. 284) A period of recovery coupled with additional reinforcements would eventually help the regiment return to full strength. In recognition of the unit's valour during the later battles at Ypres and Cambrai of 1917, King George V bestowed the regiment with the prefix "Royal" on 28 September, 1917, renaming them as the Royal Newfoundland Regiment.(Nicholson p. 223-224) This was the only time in during the First World War that this honour was given and only the third time in the history of the British Army that it has been given during a time of war, the last occasion having been 101 years earlier.(Nicholson p. 223-224)

Possible resource: Gough, Paul (2004) Sites in the imagination: the Beaumont Hamel Newfoundland Memorial on the Somme, Cultural Geographies, 11: 3 pp.235-258, ISSN 1474 - 4740 5

Memorial inscriptions and the other caribou memorials
I've been going through a set of First World War memorials and adding inscriptions (with sources) where missing. I've been having difficulties with this one, but I eventually found a picture here. That is the central one of the three plaques, and the inscription is just legible."'To the Glory of God and in perpetual remembrance of those officers and men of the Newfoundland Forces who gave their lives by Land and Sea in the Great War and who have no known graves. 'Let them give glory unto the Lord and declare His praise in the islands' - Isiah 42:12'" I'll add it to the article, but if a source could be found, that would obviously be better than relying on a Flickr picture. The headers of the other two panels (to left and right) say (at right) "Newfoundland Royal Naval Reserve" and (at left) "Newfoundland Mercantile Marines". Not so central to the article, but still nice to be able to refer to, is this picture, which is the information plaque at the site. One thing that would also be good to know is whether there are any other inscriptions on or around this memorial. Oh, and I found this, which is one of the other memorials referred to in the article (this picture is of the one at Bowring Park). It seems to have only been unveiled in 2009. Would be nice to have details of the exact location and dates of unveiling of these other memorials, and to what degree they replicate this one, which is presumably the original one. More on all that is here. Note that the caribou at Bowring Park (at least) looks quite different. (My mistake - it is only the angle that makes it look different). Also, a news story here, which has more details (in particular: "One plaque is devoted to the regiment and features 591 names. The others list 114 people from the Newfoundland Royal Naval Reserve and 115 from the Merchant Marine." - those numbers would be good in the article, plus something about the memorial tablets being replicated and the timing (July 2009) and costs ($330,000) of that - I won't push it and ask how much the original caribou memorials cost, though knowing how much the memorial site land was purchased for, from the "250 landowners" would be nice). Carcharoth (talk) 15:10, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Added to 19:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC) and 19:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Final suggestion: this source gives the other five locations for the caribou memorials as Beaumont Hamel, France (this one); Gueudecourt, France (Gueudecourt (Newfoundland) Memorial); Monchy-le-Preux, France (Monchy-le-Preux (Newfoundland) Memorial); Masnieres, France; Courtrai, Belgium, and Bowring Park, Newfoundland. Is that level of detail needed in this article? It would be quite nice to have co-ordinates for all of them, which could be used to generate a map showing their location relative to this one. I also noted that visiting these memorials seems to be referred to as the 'Caribou Trail', which is the phrase that appears on the stamp! And I now see the two other caribou memorials with articles are mentioned in the template at the bottom of the article (but because it was collapsed, neither me nor anyone else was likely to have found those links). I'll mention them in the article so they are more visible. Carcharoth (talk) 19:40, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Copy edit and unfinished sentence
I just did a copy edit of the whole article here. I hope those changes are mostly OK. There was one sentence I couldn't fix, the penultimate one: "Lastly, the six caribou memorials and the National War Memorial erected following the First World War, and the establishment of the preserved battlefield park at Beaumont-Hamel which is visited by thousands of tourist a year." It seems to be a bit unfinished, though the finish to the article in the final sentence is nice. Carcharoth (talk) 18:57, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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Size of the designated memorial?
The article seems to have an error re: the size according to Canada's Historic Places:

Official recognition refers to the whole 25-hectare site, its component parts including the remains of the battlefield and the war memorial in their existing spatial relationships. ..... Determined to erect a permanent memorial to their dead, the Government of Newfoundland acquired a 25-hectare portion of the battlefield in the early 1920s. ... Boundary description:  The designated place consists of the 25-hectare site as it was when the Government of Newfoundland acquired the site in the 1920s. http://www.historicplaces.ca/en/pages/beaumonthamel.aspx

Other articles indicate the government of Canada owns 80 acres, but the above suggests that the designated Memorial is smaller. Peter K Burian (talk) 15:48, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

This is the source cited for the size but I don't see any such discussion in that article.

Jacqueline Hucker (2012). "Monuments of the First and Second World Wars". The Canadian Encyclopedia. Historica Foundation. Retrieved 2012-07-26. Peter K Burian (talk) 15:57, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I will find a source for us..... I have been to the park and the park and the monument are two different things.... the monument resides in the park. I will Email  Tim Cook and see if he has an answer for me.....I am sure he's writen about this....just not sure what book.--Moxy (talk) 16:37, 2 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Veteran Affair Canada (the site manager) presently states the site is presently 30-hectares but this detail is burried. The Monument Board of Canada, in the historical designation of 1996 make mention of 25-hectares. I don't have access to Nicholson's Fighting Newfoundlander but if someone else does p. 518 might say something on the subject. I wouldn't generally see Historica as a accurate source on such a mundane fact, as Historica isn't exactly the pinnacle of source quality and normally acts as a aggregate. However Jacqueline Hucker is an architectural historian; I don't know the source but could be interesting.--Labattblueboy (talk) 17:11, 2 April 2017 (UTC)