Talk:Beck/Archive 1

Criticism from Wayne Coyne?
Does anybody have any specific references to a row with Wayne Coyne? I've found a few stories out there, most notably this ContactMusic story, but it hardly seems substantive enough to be included in an encyclopedia article. Is this it, or are there other stories out there? Matt T. 04:59, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree that it's not substantive enough -- it's an awfully biased article you can see that he [Jim Derogatis] criticizes many things about Beck's performance (not speaking about Wayne Coyne's point of view), and doesn't really quote Wayne Coyne at all. This is from the article: ... Wayne Coyne proceeded to tell any interviewer who asked that Beck had been a disconnected, elitist, rock-star "jerk" throughout their joint trek. This isn't evidence enough for a Wikipedia article.

In fact, I would go further -- I don't think any single user's blog is evidence enough for a Wikipedia article, even if it was a full interview with Wayne Coyne, because you can't certify its authenticity. I could set up a blog right now criticizing a famous person on it, and then cite my own blog in Wikipedia.. so this is not trustworthy.

That's why I removed this sentence last night, so.. why did someone put it back again?!

I'm going to remove it again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.15.15.56 (talk) 21:12, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm the "someone" who put it back, and I explained why when I did it. You offered no explanation of why you were deleting it, and I could see that it had a source who is a writer for the Chicago Sun-Times as well as the author of a book about the Flaming Lips, and I knew from reading interviews with Wayne Coyne over the past few years that he has complained about Beck's behavior to a number of interviewers (and his bandmate Steven Drozd has made similar complaints). That said, I admit I didn't scrutinize the source closely, and I now see that DeRogatis's phrasing is not a direct quote of Coyne, and I agree it's a weak source. (However, in principle, I disagree that a blog kept by a newspaper writer and book author should never be cited. If DeRogatis had printed an exact quote from Wayne Coyne on his blog, I would find it acceptable, because as a rock writer and the author of a book about the Flaming Lips, he is an expert on the subject.)


 * I am pretty sure I could find four or five published remarks by Coyne about his difficulties with Beck, but to be honest, I don't care enough to do that, because I don't think the information is important to the article. Like I said, I reverted your edit because I couldn't see why you did it; for all I knew you were some disgruntled Beck fan who hates Wayne Coyne and didn't want his gripes to be mentioned. But I'm content to let it stay out. Candy (talk) 05:17, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, fine. Yes, I agree with you that even if one did find all those sources, Coyne's grievances aren't really relevant to this article as a whole! I mean, maybe one could write in the "personal life" section that everyone thinks he's an asshole, but not in the history section of his recording career (although I guess he did write a song about it) :)

Mutations on Bongload?
Can somebody cite references for the whole bit about Mutations originally being planned for Bongload and Geffen releasing it against his will? I'm not really doubting it, but I don't recall hearing about this before.
 * I added two; the story has been widely reported. I made a revision to the article, because it said Geffen released it without Beck's permission. Geffen had a legal right to release the album, so it didn't need Beck's permission. But there's no question that Beck had intended for it to be released on Bong Load. If the two cites I provided don't satisfy the need for documentation, I believe I can find others after some more digging. Candy 04:51, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Compared to Prince
"He has been described as a modern-day Prince, albeit to a lesser creative extent)." Being compared to Prince is not entirely scholarly, but saying people are "compared" to other people is commonly done so we can let that slide. However, to add "albeit to a lesser creative extent" is VERY uncscholarly. A comparison is an opinion, but the level of creativity is comepletely subjective. If Beck is compared to Prince that can be proven, therefore fact. Lesser creative extent should be omitted.

I have this to say about beck. only that he is the greatest musician since. . .ever. BLARG!!

i read somewhere that bob dylan said when someone was comparing music to him that he said compare it to beck because beck is the future.

Space Ghost
The part referencing his appearance on SpaceGhost should be deleted, or edited. The episode they referenced is called "Knifin' Around" and had Thom Yorke, not Beck, as the guest other than Bjork on it.

Beck did appear on Space Ghost though. It was in episode 36, "Edelweiss" http://snard.com/sg/guide/?ep=36&fmt=0. Ja2ke 02:00, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Spanish Wikipedia
Had to attempt a rewrite on this one; I couldn't let the Spanish Wikipedia have SO MUCH MORE "Beck" info than the English one!!!!!!!!

P.S. Thanks Spanish Wiki for the picture :) Iroll 00:24, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Sing it Again and Johnny Cash
This is a great article, but I've found one small piece of information that is not true; Johnny Cash never rejected 'Sing it again,' because it never was submitted to him; Beck considered it to be 'rubbish,' (his precise words) according to an interview back in '95. So, I've just straightened that out.Drom 00:24, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Scientology
Removed a reference to the Scientology rumor; not only was it badly formatted, but it has been debated to death on usenet and on Beck's old bbs. Just because a person hangs out with Scientologists does not make them one, and Beck has stated that he is not. Iroll 21:23, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * From the NY times magazine (3/6/05): "Like his wife and his father, Beck is a Scientologist." It goes into more detail too. Here is the link to the relevant page, registration required. Deadcorpse 02:11, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Yup, this should be taken into the article, I think, since it is official now. --capnez 09:24, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Was absent. I added it to the "trivia" section.
 * I'm going to edit the Scientologist reference. I have never come across any reference to him identifying himself as such.  While it is true that many close to him are admitted Scientologists, I have not seen anything in which he states an association with the organization.  Whether he is or not, I could not say, but the man keeps many personal issues (his relationship with Leigh Limon, his marriage to Marissa Ribisi and their child, his religious affiliation) out of the press.  He has his webmaster, Truck, discourage such discussion on the official Beck bulletin board system.  If you show me a reliable source indicating a self-declared affiliation with CoS, I'll relent.  (If it's in the NYTimes.com article, could send me a copy?  It requires payment now, not just registration.) (One more note: Beck's MySpace profile, which was created by Truck and Interscope, shows J.R. "Bob" Dobbs of the Church of the SubGenius in the background, perhaps a goof on the Church of Scientology (both CoS)).  Cigarette 22:00, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I am editing the scientology reference to put it into the biography section and to give it its own section. A person's religious membership is very unlikely to be a "trivial" part of their life, no matter how uncomfortable that particular religion might make some people.

I love the edits to the Scientology trivia. It explains perfectly the ambiguity of Beck's relationship to Scientology. Thanks Grza and anon user. Cigarette 15:15, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I edited this section after reading the interview in the Sunday Tribune i Magazine of 12 June 2005. I just thought I'd better register this fact here as well because (a) it's a controversial issue and (b) I don't know of any website offering the content of the interview. RMoloney 21:17, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * I've found no proof on any sources of Beck being a Scientologist, provide a free source for everyone and we'll put it up. The links that are free just describe possibilities of Beck being a Scientologist, and none seem true or factual. This all seems like crap to me, so please provide the best information you can, because this all seems like myth and legend, stories and lies. You know, some people still think Hilter is alive, under the ice caps of the Artitic, waiting... but you know what, no proof. willsy 20:20 10, February 2006


 * Interview on MTVNews.com, 05/27/05 in which Beck discusses the role of Scientology in his life. It is the third unique result for google search 'beck scientology interview'.  Other (potentially biased) sources that provide far more analysis can be found with the same search. Ehinzpeter 14:00 PST 19 Feb. 2006

The Scientology section reads as though the Sunday Tribune interview was the first time Beck confirmed the rumors that he was a Scientologist. However, the New York Times interview of March 6, 2005, predated the Tribune interview by three months. I would like to revise the section to reflect that. But that is a fairly big revision so I thought I would post about it here to see if there is any objection. By the way, re comment by willsy above, the NY Times is a free site (though it does require registration). Beck has commented on the fact that he is a Scientologist in a handful of interviews by now; it is an established fact. Candy 07:36, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I edited the reference to Marissa Ribisi that said she has "gone so far as to maintaining" her Scientology website. Those websites were all done several years ago and they are mostly outdated; hers definitely is, so it's not in any sense maintained. Also, having one of those sites doesn't suggest any particular extent of involvement (as implied by "gone so far"). Many people created those pages at lower levels. If one wants to make a point about the extent of her involvement, it would be more meaningful to cite the level she has reached (Clear) and her 18 years of steady involvement. I don't think that's necessary, though, in a Wiki entry on her husband. Candy 22:54, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Just realized the article referred to "many public denials" by Beck that he was a Scientologist. This actually, as far as I know, is not true. In 2000 a reporter wrote, in an article based on an interview with Beck, that he was not a Scientologist, but she did not explicitly state that he had denied it to her; even if you infer that he told her that, it's still only one time. I've read a huge number of interviews with him and never seen him quoted as denying he was a Scientologist, though for a time he did refuse to answer questions about it. If anyone can provide citations for actual quotes by Beck denying it, please do. Until then I think "many" is inaccurate. Candy 05:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I just removed a section somebody wrote about the lyrics to Exoskeleton being a Scientology reference. Beck has stated a number of times that the speech in question is a dialogue between Spike Jonze and Dave Eggers about what the ultimate album / album of the future would be like. Furthermore, on the message boards at Stewoo.net, Beck's bassist Justin-Meldal Johnsen confirmed that none of the lyrics on The Information were about Scientology. Finally, the text I deleted was pure speculation, which has no place in an encyclopedia. Dnewton 19:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Jewish?
Why is there a link to famous Jews at the bottom? Am I missing something? Deadcorpse 19:53, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I think its from Jewish law/custom, I'm not sure the correct term, where being a Jew depends on if your mother is jewish. (David Cross does a bit about it.) Although I thought I read somewhere that Beck's mother wasn't Jewish, but experimented with it. I'm not sure if it matters. At any rate, I don't think he self-identifies as Jewish. That list has a few discrepancies if you look at it, it includes people who have Jewish fathers, not technically Jews by in the strictest sense, and it also has people who don't self-identify as being Jews. Anyone feel free to correct me if and where I'm wrong. --kanadier 05:54, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * An addition, googling his mother it says that her stepfather is Jewish and she says she's half-jewish, but is a Scientologist as listed somewhere here, so I don't think he should be considered a Jew. --kanadier 06:04 16 Mar 2005


 * Sometime in the late 90's I saw a bit on MTV News about Beck and the Beastie Boys, and it was mentioned that Beck was Jewish. Whether or not he has ever been a practicing Jew, I'm pretty sure that he identifies as such, at least on some level.  I'm not sure if his mother converted when she "experimented" with Judaism or not, but if she did, that would make Beck Jewish by default.   The Opressed One 15:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Here's an interview from this week's issue of the Onion that settles this one once and for all: http://www.avclub.com/content/node/53655

The Opressed One 21:14, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

85.250.13.19 10:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)Can someone please explain, why famous people always get a credit of being jewish in Wikipedia? I mean, if someone has any of jewish roots, even as distant as "paternal great-grandmother", as Beck, Wikipedia's articles always mention it in the first place. On the other hand, one can rarely see mentioning of other nation's ancestry. Thanks to the authors of Beck's article, they did mention his Swedish and Norwegian roots. But sadly, authors of the various other articles on famous people aren't so impartial. Please, explain that phenomenon to me. Sopostelnik 12:37, 21 February 2007

The reason why is because his jewishness is why people hype him up.

Beck cerote anda a comer mierda
Beck is not a jew. He likes to say he is because scientologists think that saying so will open them doors to success. Scientologists are fucking nuts and believe in conspiracy theories (the jewish control over Hollywood and the media), so they try to befriend jews or lie about being one.

Beck sucks.-i agree
 * Dude, POV much? XD

What's ure problem man? Beck rules. its scientology that sucks.--BLARG!!

Shouldn't this be moved to Beck Hanson?
The word Beck is a common name and term so the search should go to the Disambiguation page of Beck. Beck (the songwriter) should go to Beck Hanson not the other way around. What do you think? --Michael Kelley 16:51, 13 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Are there any other Becks that are deserving of the main page? You note that it's a "common name", but 90% of the people who search for Beck are probably looking for the singer/songwriter - otherwise, they can click the disambig link on top. -Mariana 22:11, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

The only other famous person with the name "Beck" would be Jeff Beck. But if anyone wanted to lookup him that person would presumably just type in his full name207.157.121.50 06:54, 9 October 2005 (UTC)mightyafrowhitey

Beck's last name is spelled "Hansen." -Macarion 16:59 27 June 2006


 * See discussion below. ~ trialsanderrors 05:55, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

David Campbell
When you click the link to "David Campbell", his father, under Beck Hansen's entry, it takes you to a completely different David Campbell (one that was in fact born three years AFTER Beck was, obviously making him not his father).

Images
The picture is missing.. it was deleted by User:Vancouverguy. From what i read it was from spanish wikipedia ... publicity photos from time of his last albums. Not many images on the web and the official site is all in Flash, however i upload another (playing on stage) but it's not very good -

(from:http://www.music-atlas.com/artists/beck.htm) --max rspct 20:42, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I think a picture of Beck that isn't copyrighted would be a better choice. Using an album cover as a picture to show an example of something on it(in this case Beck himself) is one of the specific examples of "not fair use" on the fair use page. No?

Birthplace
I've never heard that he was born in Africa (if so, what country?) - most sources say Los Angeles, though one online source says Kansas. I'll leave this citation flag up for a while, then I'll change it to LA if no one provides a source for the Africa claim.--Chris 02:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Chris, there is no reliable source for Beck's birthplace being Africa. (I have never even seen that mentioned as a possibility until I came here!) On the other hand, there's a plethora of sources for L.A. I believe his mother has even been quoted on that subject, and if anyone would know, she would. If you want more backup on that I will find it for you, but it is clear that you have found a number of L.A. citations yourself. I think it's safe to trust them.

Sorry, that was posted by me, Candy, a total newbie. Obviously I still need to learn how to do this. candy 03:04, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. Thanks.--Chris 04:00, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Samples
Is it appropriate for external links to be under Samples, or is that section reserved for on-site links only? I see that someone has just added a bunch of external links there; being new around here, I am hesitant to take them down, but I suspect they may be out of place. (The same sites are also given in External Links.) Candy 00:12, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Requested move
Beck Hansen → Beck – To revert a unilateral move without community consensus. Beck (disambiguation) already exists. ~ trialsanderrors 05:51, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Survey
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~
 * Support as nominator. ~ trialsanderrors 05:51, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support Teemu08 07:02, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support --Guinnog 09:48, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support -Releeshan 11:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support -SigPig 18:23, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Comment ~ trialsanderrors 05:54, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Is there someplace where the reason for the proposed move is explained? I'm not against it, particularly, but I don't know what the argument is against "Beck Hansen." Candy 04:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC) (Moved to discussion)
 * First, the article was under "Beck" until yesterday when it was moved unilaterally by User:Jared W, without discussion. Second, his stage name is Beck, and he is still referred to as "Beck" throughout most of the article. (If it were Beck Hansen "Hansen" would be the proper form. We don't call Arnold Schwarzenegger "Arnold" in his article.) Third, almost all links to this site are now redirects from Beck, see "what links here". A typical fly-by-night page move which should be reverted. ~ trialsanderrors 07:09, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, cool. Because of the support-oppose survey, I got the idea that it was a major change (rather than an obvious revert). I'd frankly forgotten it was simply under "Beck" before. Candy 21:45, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I've moved this back to Beck as a complete no-brainer. — sjorford++ 15:57, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well done. --Guinnog 16:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks! ~ trialsanderrors 18:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

News-type edits
I've edited the paragraph about The Information down because of numerous outdated and conflicting attempts to include the latest news. (For instance, there was contradictory info about which song would be the first single and which songs and videos were currently on the official Beck website.) It's generally a good idea, when you add new copy, to make sure outdated copy in that area is removed. Also, since the official website frequently changes the videos and songs it has posted, trying to keep tabs on what is posted there, and when, is a ceaseless task and not very helpful if the info is not kept up-to-date. Also, I think that sort of news is outside the general scope of Wikipedia; if I'm wrong about that please don't hesitate to correct me. Candy 13:52, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

First appearance of Puppet Show
The article implies that the puppet show for his latest tour first appeared at the Bonnaroo Festival in Tennessee on June 17, 2006. This article talking about the puppet show at the San Francisco show on May 27, 2006 shows that the puppet show predates the currently linked festival. I have never edited a Wiki article, so someone who's more familiar with Wiki's style and citing procedure may want to edit that paragraph. 70.143.93.87 07:55, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think the article actually implies that Bonnaroo was the first show with puppets. However, I do think the section could be tightened up. After the new album is released, some of the sentences will need to be recast. I'll do that (if no one else beats me to it) and I'll fix the puppet thing then. Candy 13:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Steve Threw Up single
I own it... it's mentioned in the "Golden Feelings" article, but not in this one? Andrewhime 06:35, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Strange... I thought it used to be in this article. I wrote something for it: Steve Threw Up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by It's-is-not-a-genitive (talk • contribs) 16:12, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

Poet
Re: as far as I know, Beck is not a poet; if he is, pls provide cite

I didn't put in the original "poet" text, but I will defend it.

Beck is a poet. There's a poem he wrote in the liner notes of Mellow Gold, and a couple in the Playing With Matches book. There's also all that talk of the magazine he did as a kid, Youthless, which was suposedly a poetry magazine.

Anyway, I don't want to figure out how to put in references, but they do exist. Dnewton 18:02, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I was the one who removed it. The fact that someone has written a few poems doesn't seem like basis enough to call him a poet here. Also, as far as I know, copies of Youthless are not available, so we don't actually know what was in it. It seems to me that listing Beck as a poet devalues the term, not because he's not a talented person, but because it suggests that anyone who's written a few poems should be considered a poet. If that were the only the criterion, then I suspect Wikipedia would have to add the word "poet" to descriptions of many people. I'd think that, to be described as a poet, one would have to have a body of work, not jsut a few published poems. Further, I don't think I've ever even seen Beck claim to be a poet (which would at least make me feel that there was a compelling reason to consider listing him as one). Candy 21:47, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * good points. i concede victory to you miss candy, darling. wouldn't it be sweet if we did have copies of youthless though? :) Dnewton 23:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * wow, that was easy! yes, it would be sweet. i won't give up hope!!! Candy 05:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

lead-in
from jumping from Beck's recent (brilliant) SNL performance, looking for some wikipedia information goodness - here i am. the brass tacks: its full of pointless adjectives, original research and quite frankly some knob-polishing.

"Beck's work defied easy description,"

"Beck's music—with its pop-junk culture collage of musical styles, oblique, ironic lyrics, and post-modern arrangements "

"drew on an absurdist, free-flowing lyrical style that was totally original "

...whoever is looking after this article should change this stuff. blech. JoeSmack Talk (p-review!) 07:08, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, no one in particular is looking after it. People simply pitch in. I have a number of criticisms of it (see my complaints about "news-type edits"), but I haven't felt I have a solid argument for changing others' work. (Btw, I don't understand your complaint that it's full of "original research." Do you mean information that isn't cited?) Candy 22:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Guerolito
There is no mention of Guerolito in the main article. There's a link at the bottom but it doesn't mention Guerolito, the remix album of Guero. I loved it. Clap Hands rules.

YouTube links
This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed or you would like to help spread this message contact us on this page. Thanks, ---J.S (t|c) 03:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Why clean-up tag?
Suppressed the last 4 lines of the section where the tag was; still don't have a clue what that tag was all about. Too many words? Dilane 06:39, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Jewish issue revisited
Anon user, if you want to set a standard, Beck's mother was Jewish, and her mother was Jewish, it's stated in the article. A person is Jewish if their mother is Jewish. "According to Halakha (Jewish law), only a convert or a child born to a Jewish mother is counted as Jewish. " See the WP page Who is a Jew?. Ckessler 06:52, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Halaka (Jewish Law) only refers to the religion. Having a Jewish father does not subtract someone from a Jewish ethnic category. That is why people with Jewish fathers but gentile mothers are still listed as Jews on wikipedia. Beck was not born Jewish by religion. Therefore this is irrelevant. 141.213.212.16 06:58, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * His ethnicity has nothing to do with it. Even if he is a Scientologist, a Swedish member of the Church of Satan or a Christian from Belize, he is a Jew by birth according to Halakha. Ckessler 07:00, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Halakha Law is not used on wikipedia. People with Jewish fathers are still listed as Jews. If you wish to go by Jewish Law, I suggest you start removing people with Jewish fathers who were not raised in the Jewish religion from List of Jewish Americans. 141.213.212.16 07:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

By WP standards, Beck is Jewish, even if he is non-practicing. He self-identifies, and has Jewish heritage via his mother. It's enough, and the category should stay. Ckessler 07:09, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * So you've given up on the Halakha Law argument? He admits he has Jewish ancestry which is not the same as self-identifying. What exactly is he going to do, DENY he has it? If he is non-practicing, wasn't raised in the Jewish religion, and is one-eight Jewish...how on earth can he be considered a Jew (especially if he mother even isn't)?? 141.213.212.16 07:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

His mother is Jewish! If his maternal great-grandmother is Jewish, then his grandmother is Jewish, then his mother is Jewish, then he is Jewish. Whether they are Swedish or Swahili, it still applies. The religion of his maternal great-grandfather, et al, doesn't matter, since being Jewish comes from the mother. Ckessler 07:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * You can only be Jewish in two ways: ethnically or religiously. There's not some magical element that exists that makes someone Jewish that isn't biological or cultural. Jewish ethnicity is not determined by who your mother is. Ethnicity/genetics are simply the same everywhere - they are from both parents. Jewish religion is, however, matrilineal in the sense that someone born to a Jewish mother TRADITIONALLY adopts the Jewish religion. Since his mother states she was "somewhat" raised Jewish, this can barely qualify her as being a Jew through law. Beck himself was born to when his mother was already a Scientologist, therefore he was not raised in the Jewish religion as it would TRADITIONALLY be held. Please understand. I can't imagine how Judaism can exist outside of religion and ethnicity. 141.213.212.16 07:27, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, if one parent is Swedish, and the other parent is Italian, then what does that make their offspring? If, as you say, Judaism exists as an ethnicity, and Bibi Hansen is Jewish, among other ethnicities, then wouldn't that make Beck Jewish as well, even if he is now a Scientologist? If she is Jewish, from her mother's side, and Spanish from her father's side (as an example), isn't she is still Jewish, as is her son?

Being Jewish ethnically is not the same as being Jewish culturally. Even if I didn't eat latkes at Hanukkah and go to Passover seders, I would still be Jewish by blood. Ckessler 07:33, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Beck is also of Swedish, Norwegian, and likely English or Scottish descent too, among god knows how many other ethnicities. Being 1/8th Jewish by blood is not significant enough to merit a category. Notice on Beck isn't in Swedish categories like Category:Swedish musicians or Norwegian categories like Category:Norwegian musicians nor is he on List of Swedes or List of Norwegians. Is having Jewish ancestry somehow more important than the Norwegian and Swedish ancestry, and so that's why we should record it more predominantely? I'm sorry, if the question isn't about religion/culture anymore, then I can't see where this is going anymore. 141.213.212.16 07:47, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

No, it's not. Feel free to add the Swedish-Americans or Norwegian-American categories. That's what they exist for, and there's no limit on the number of categories one person can be placed in. Ckessler 20:46, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Why do you not feel the need to add them, curiously? There is a limit to when someone has significant Swedish or Norwegian ancestors. It's impossible for me to stress this anymore than I have. Given that Beck is 1/8th Swedish, that's exactly why he's not on List of Swedish Americans or Category:Swedish-Americans. So why....may I ask...is he in a Jewish-American category when he has the same extent of Jewish heritage? 141.213.212.16 23:40, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * If he's not Swedish, and he's not Jewish, then what is he? Ethnicity is made up of lots of smaller parts. What category would you suggest we apply here? Ckessler 23:48, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Nobody is denying he has Swedish and Jewish ancestry. It says it straight in the article for god's sake. If we found out Beck's great great great great grandfather was Chinese, is he a Chinese musician now? No. There is a certain extent to which ancestry is not relevant for categorization. Typically it's at or especially beyond 1/4th descent. 141.213.212.16 01:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Who decided that? You? If so, there's a lot of work for you to do, removing people from categories. Mandy Moore is listed on the Jewish musicians page, and she has a Jewish paternal grandfather, and certainly does not identify as Jewish. That's one of many examples. Regardless of how much Jewish ancestry Beck has, (and he certainly has enough to qualify as Jewish) he self-identifies. That should be enough to satisfy you. Ckessler 03:52, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Um...it's been decided and implemented on nearly all lists and categories. Do you honestly believe Category:Italian writers has every writer who has any Italian descent in their blood? Because the Mandy Moore article slipped through, doesn't mean it will be spared. Point out other examples then. They need to be corrected equally so. 141.213.212.16 05:15, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Guys, it's very simple. It all depends on what the sources say specifically about each person (and especially since there are a lot of definitions listed on Who is a Jew?). Since there is a source that refers to Beck as Jewish - well, Beck himself - in the JVibe interview. And another reference that refers to Beck as "Jewish". There are no sources that refer to Mandy Moore as Jewish, only her grandfather, so she shouldn't be listed as that. Same thing for the other categories. If there are sources that are reliable and decree Beck as Norwegian-American, Scottish-American, or anything he can be listed as that as well. Mad Jack 07:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Genre
Beck is not indie rock, he is on a major label. Please dont add "indie rock" to that long list of genres.

It doesn't matter. look at the flaming lips and modest mouse. they're signed to major labels and are still indie rock.

there are WAY too many genres listed. we should make them more general, instead of listing every fuckin genres beck has dabbled in.


 * That would be reductive though, wouldn't it? I certainly wouldn't call him just rock, when he's a prime country, blues, yadda yadda, musician --It&#39;s-is-not-a-genitive 16:10, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Songs included in European versions
In "(2004–present) Guero and The Information" the article says that European customers got "The Information" CD's with both "Inside out" and "This Girl That I Know", however I bought in Germany a CD containing only "Inside out" as an additional track. (I bought a version that included a DVD with all the music videos and Sticker 4 just with the difference that it didn't include a sticker for "This Girl That I Know"). What I want to point out is that probably only British customers got both additional tracks.

Fan Sites
I just reverted an edit that deleted the links to fansites. I admit that I am biased because I run one of these sites, but I think getting rid of those links does a disservice to anybody looking at this page. As of now, there is far more information available on fan sites than on Beck's official site. Anyway, if others think they should be removed, or if this is in accordance with wikipedia rules I'm unaware of, that's fine. I just thought it was unwarranted without discussion here. Dnewton 08:07, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I just got a stern message telling me those links are inappropriate. I think that's bull, but whatever. For neutrality reasons, I cannot suggest adding my own site back to the link list. However, I do think some of the external links that were removed conform to Wikipedia's "what should be linked" criteria, especially numbers 3 and 4. So let's discuss this. Anyone agree? Dnewton 16:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I removed those links to fan sites because they seemed to be going against the conflict of interest and spam policies. And one of them was in Chinese. Here's why I removed it (the Chinese one)-- $U IT  17:31, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, the Chinese one makes sense, but what about the others? As far as I know, none of the site owners listed their own sites there, so it doesn't really fall into conflict of interest. And, at least in my opinion, they are good resources. For example, beckbeckbeck.net has an article archive that spans 10 years; stewoo.net has a forum where members of Beck's band post news and updates and contribute to discussion; becktabs.com has an archive of Beck guitar tablature. My own site, whiskeyclone.net, is also a valuable resource, but I won't fight for its inclusion, as that would be a conflict of interest. Anyway, I'd say these sites all either "contain neutral and accurate material that cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article..." or are "sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as reviews and interviews." Maybe I'm just missing something? Dnewton 20:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't understand why the links were taken down. They were useful and relevant to Beck's career, regardless of who posted them. (And I am not responsible for any of the sites, or for posting the links.) Also, I just checked several Wiki entries for other performers. I followed links from Beck's profile, so the ones I checked were the Beastie Boys, Prince, and Bob Dylan. All of them had fan sites listed in the external links section. I stopped checking after three, but I'm willing to go and check out more if it will make any difference. If I'm looking for informative sites about well-known people, I frequently check their Wiki entries; I've had better luck with doing that than I have with Googling. Candy 03:50, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I completely agree the fan site links should remain. They are relevant and useful without violating any interests or spam policies.  However, I do agree that any foreign language fan sites should not be linked here.  I do not remember which ones were deleted, but I do know I frequent the sites listed below for information on Beck (certainly more than the official myspace or beck.com sites).  Specifically, these sites should be included here:

http://www.whiskeyclone.net/ http://becktabs.com/ http://www.stewoo.net/beck/home/ Lefted 18:02, 1 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree also,the sites that were linked before are very useful and contain information that is no longer included in Beck's official site,and a lot of information that has never been there in the first place.If there was anyone looking for specific information that has to do with Beck,say a song that isn't listed on his site and can't really have it's own separate section in this Wiki article,it would help to have these sites linked here.Little MV 20:06, 1 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I want the fan site links to remain on Beck's Wiki page too. It is really useful to be able to find them all listed together on a page such as this one. dora maar


 * I think that the taking down of some of the 'fan' sites was rather silly. Maybe a compromise can be reached. The forums could go (although Stewoo is a prime source of Beck-related news,) but Whiskeyclone should certainly stay. It provides an analytical appraisal of Beck's works more than anything. --It&#39;s-is-not-a-genitive 16:09, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Mellow Gold: Mainstream smash success?
I never really paid attention to this statement before: "In 1994, Geffen's official debut release of Mellow Gold, culled from sessions with Rothrock, Schnapf, and Stephenson, made Beck a mainstream smash success." As far as I know, it was Loser that made Beck a smash success, not Mellow Gold. I don't have any specific citations for that, but i do know that on the Lollapalooza tour in 1995, he faced crowds who liked Loser but weren't fans of his other material. I'm not even sure the "mainstream" part came with Loser; I think that was more with Odelay. But again, I have no citations. Any thoughts? Candy 12:22, 9 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that you're absolutely right, Candy. Mellow Gold wasn't so huge a success. It got to 13 in the US and 41 in the UK, but Beck got famous off the back of sales for Loser... the other songs didn't do so well. Also, I don't think he got 'mainstream' acceptance until Odelay. Other than Loser, the songs of Mellow Gold are relatively unexplored outside keen Beck fans, which is a shame, because so many of his MG songs count along his finest (Whiskeyclone; Soul Suckin' Jerk perhaps; definetly Pay No Mind. But anyhow... --It&#39;s-is-not-a-genitive 16:24, 9 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The fact remains though, that Mellow Gold is a platinum record (may even be multiple at this point, not sure) that had HUGE amounts of buzz based off Loser. Regardless of how he was being viewed at the time, that constitutes a successful record in my book. I can agree that maybe a different choice of words could be used, but the album itself Mellow Gold did a lot in terms of thrusting Beck into the public eye both critically and commercially. It's what got him a lot of reviews that WEREN'T relying solely on "one hit wonder" tags etc. If Loser stood alone and didn't have a solid album behind it, I think Beck would have been perceived a lot differently. 205.166.37.110 22:08, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I wasn't disputing that Mellow Gold has, in the past 13 years, sold in large quantities; I just questioned whether it was accurate to say (as the article does) that the "release of Mellow Gold...made Beck a mainstream smash success." To me, that suggests that it was an immediate hit with the mainstream, which isn't the case. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Misscandy (talk • contribs) 04:14, 11 May 2007 (UTC).

Junk culture?? Grunge??

 * Has the person who wrote that Beck emerged from the mainstream because of following junk culture grunge actually heard MTV Makes Me Wanna Smoke Crack?! It isn't grunge; it is an acoustic quasi-protest song about, as I wrote in the article that I started about it:

''his fellow colleagues, who he believed were "imitating a sitcom." Beck uses the public image of MTV, where "everything's perfect and everything's bright", to contrast with the mundane lives of those who are sucked into believing what MTV sells, and with his own threadbare existence.''

Thus, he is not following junk culture, but being a critic of it. That part of the article is so misleading; if you don't mind, I'll have to rewrite it. --It&#39;s-is-not-a-genitive 16:19, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * You wrote the "MTV" article? I was thinking the title should be corrected, but that's a big edit and I wasn't feeling secure about doing it. Per the record itself, the title is "MTV Makes Me Want To Smoke Crack", isn't it? (I'll gladly continue this discussion there if you prefer.) Candy 18:28, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Filmography
As the Filmography now stands, it's impossible to tell which movies Beck actually appeared in versus which ones he recorded music for versus which ones simply used a previously recorded song of his on their soundtracks. I don't see a reason for listing the latter group at all. I think his songs have been used in many more films than are listed; are we going to try to list all of them? If any are listed, they should all be listed, but that list could be awfully long. Maybe I'm missing something, though, so I'll wait awhile to see if anyone defends their inclusion before I remove them. Candy 09:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

It was me who edited the Filmography most recently, I just forgot to sign in. I was kinda thinking the same thing, so I'm glad you posted about it. I wouldn't mind seeing the stuff that his music appeared in being merged into the discography page, and leaving this section for a filmography of movies he's appeared in (with a link to the discography for the other stuff). That said, I don't think there are many movies his songs have a appeared in that I've left out, at least not major ones. I could be wrong, though. Dnewton 16:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I was figuring his songs have appeared on at least a dozen more soundtracks. Not that I know they have--I just suspected it because so many songs in general are used on so many soundtracks. (I always watch credits and am often amazed at how many songs were used in the movie I just watched.) So maybe I'm wrong about that. If you want to do the merging onto the discography page, that's fine with me. I'd like to edit these entries to make it clear which ones are appearances, anyway. Candy 03:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Child birth
In the article it says Beck's second child is due April, 2007. It's May, has the kid been born yet? 04:22, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * That's a good question. If it hasn't been born by now, I think it's safe to assume it's been resorbed by the mother's body like a rabbit. Seriously though, shouldn't there be at least one source mentioning this child's birth? One would think that Beck's famous enough to have the birth of his children at least receive a small blurb in People or something. 69.61.152.204 03:29, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Those magazine/gossip column blurbs generally come from a celebrity's publicist. Beck seems not to want to release birth announcements (or marriage announcements, either). However, his bass player, Justin Meldal-Johnsen, did mention on his MySpace blog on June 19, 2007, that Beck's baby had been born three weeks earlier. No mention of the name, sex, or any other details, though. Candy 05:50, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:BeckSeaCh.jpg
Image:BeckSeaCh.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:BeckOneFoot.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:Mutations.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:Guero.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:MellowGold.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:Odelay.jpg
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Birth Name
I see that Beck's birth name (Bek David Campbell) has been flagged as needing documentation. Is that really necessary? His birth name has been published in countless magazine articles and several books over the past thirteen years. It also appears on numerous websites, though I'm not sure if any of them would be good enough to cite. If it is truly necessary I'll find an authoritative reference. But if the goal is mainly to deter the helpful individuals who keep "correcting" the first name to "Beck," I doubt a citation will stop them! Candy 16:19, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh dear :|! People should know that Beck's birthname was Bek. Although it's rather eccentric to have to provide sources for someone's birth name (even the articles on Elton John, Marilyn Monroe and Marilyn Manson, I have added a few sources for the time being: TV.com, which has been accepted as credible on other articles, and an interview in support. I also added an unseen warning that 'Bek' was not to be changed, and that it is not a typographical error. Hopefully, this will offset changes, and even more hopefully, maybe we can remove the sources at some time. --It&#39;s-is-not-a-genitive 18:05, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't mind having the sources, though it seems silly. I'm glad you did the work. (ease go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot 04:27, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Spelling in a quoted British source
Per the Wikipedia Manual of Style (see WP:PUNC), "Whenever possible, faithfully use the same style that was used in the original quotation; do not change it to follow Wikipedia's rules on punctuation. If there is a spelling or other mistake in the original quote, it can be noted with [sic]." A British spelling is not a spelling mistake; it was the correct spelling in the context in which it was published. Using "[sic]" for a British spelling suggests that it is a faulty spelling. You wouldn't expect to see U.S. publications putting "[sic]" after every British spelling they use in a printed quote, would you? Candy (talk) 07:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)