Talk:Bedouin

Tribe names
Comments and Additions to the Article:

Awlaad Ali - Note there are three tribes by that same name all are different. Awlaad Ali in Lybia. Awlaad Ali part of Anazah in north-west Saudi Arabia and part of Syria. Awlaad Ali or Ayaal Ali which is a nickname for people who inhabit Qassim Area of Saudi Arabia

Rwalla Many have moved back to Saudi Arabia in Al-Jouf province, Turaif and Arar. Bani Khalid - Also many in Eastern Saudi Arabia. Murrah - Eastern Saudi Arabia bordering Qatar and UAE Anazah Traibe - Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Shammar - Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Hajer - Eastern Saudi Arabia Dhafir - North-East Saudi Arabia Mutair - Central Saudi Arabia but also stretch out from near Medina to Hafar Al-Batin. Harb - Western Saudi Arabia but stretch out to the Central region and go as far as Hafar Al-Batin. Otaiba - Western near Tayef but also extend to the Central region of Saudi Arabia. Qahtan - there are two tribes of the same name, but are one in origion. in the south of Saudi Arabia and the other in Central Saudi Arabia just south by south-west of Riyadh. Ajman - Eastern Saudi Arabia Subai - Central Saudi Arabia Dawasir - Central Saudi Arabia south of Riyadh. Yam - Southern Saudi Arabia in Najran area.

There are hundreds more tribes.....

&mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alzaid (talk • contribs).


 * So why does this article focus on the plight of the Bedouin in Israel alone? —Aiden 20:27, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Because that was what someone happened to know about, and want to write about. Lack of completeness does not equate to POV. --Stbalbach 20:46, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Why are no tribes listed from Egypt or Libya?

Additional Comments:

One could never encompass the entire list of nomadic arabian tribes in the middle-east, as there are too many. Best to include prominent tribes (consider size and influentiality) from each region. Many of the tribes, especially in the gulf region, have long been urbanized. There are very few remaining nomads out there living as nomads, and they are shrinking by the decade. Some remanants of the larger Saudi tribes may be still nomadic, but most have adapted to modern lifestyle, with some that can be considered semi-nomadic. Semi-Nomadic means that they live some part of the year in the desert during a good rain season, or they use modern tools, such as, cars and water tankers...etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aalzaid (talk • contribs) 19:18, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Edited "Bedouin Tribes and Populations" Section
I have edited the Tribal section, and added more tribes, and removed tribes, many were fictional, others were part of a larger tribe. I have left only the notable tribes only.

Edited "Bedouin Culture"
I've expanded this section quite a bit. Enjoy. I may add more on nomad-village interactions at a later date. Fishies Plaice 11:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

several more comments:

there is NO tribe by the name of Sudair in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere. Sudair is a geographical region south of riyadh.

Otaiba tribe is the prominent tribe in the central region and very influential. It should be added.

Also Qahtan (Nejd branch) and Harb.

There is a tribe named after Sudair, Sudairi. I don't know how prominent it is, though. AbbasAD (talk) 06:48, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Beduin Saying
A widely quoted Bedouin saying is "I and my brothers against my cousins, I and my brothers and my cousins against the world." Here is how I heard it: "Me and my brother on (=against) my cousin, and me and my cousin on the stranger." --SheriKan (talk) 03:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

I think the most accurate translation would be "Me and my brother against my cousin, me and my cousin against a stranger." — Preceding unsigned comment added by AbbasAD (talk • contribs) 06:49, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Valid Tribe?
IS there a valid tribe named Bani Johma, as referenced in the article Gharaibeh? If so, should it be listed? Viscouse 19:28, 14 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Tribe Bani Johma is one of the tribe migrated from Arab peninsula in the late 14 century. In settled in the South of Horan( north Jordan now). The tribe continued from 14-19 century, before it migrated in different places in Horan رامي الجهماني (talk) 07:54, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Etymology
This article needs the literal meaning/etymology of the word "Bedouin." Badagnani 00:12, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

The word Badu (Arabic for Bedouin) is derived from the tri-root Baa-Daal-Alif which means: to appear, to show-up, to become visible. The verb Bada has two contradicting meanings (which sometimes exists in Arabic) which are (become seen/visible) and (become vague). They were named badu because they sometimes show-up and sometimes you don't know where they are. In Arabic it refers to any nomad whether he was Arab or not and whether he lived in a desert or elsewhere. The opposite of that is Hadar, which means those that are present at all times.

Arab nomads (badu) are called A'raab أعراب (not Arab). --Maha Odeh 09:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

"Bedouin" is from the Arabic plural of Badu (however transliterated) although in English it is often used as singular with plural "Bedouins". "Bedouin" may be used as a plural though whether on the sheep/sheep pattern or as some attempt at following the Arabic is unclear.--SilasW 21:03, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I have spoken with a friend from Saudi Arabia who tells me that calling these people "bedouin" can be taken offensively by those that are bedouin citizens of Saudi Arabia, because it supposedly refers to or may sound like a different word in Arabic which describes illegal aliens, (e.g. not of the country, and where the government has to deal with them). He said that the bedouins referred to in this article that live in and are citizens of Saudi Arabia should be called "badu".  This confused me, because that would just be the Arabic word that this transliteration came from in the first place.  Can someone research into this and clarify?  Does the English transliteration actually sound like another word in Arabic that means something like illegal aliens? This is probably an issue where Arabic speakers who are not native English speakers may get confused about the English word. It would be nice for some clarification, however. Mmortal03 (talk) 05:27, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

In reference to the possible offensiveness of the word "Bedouin" or "Badu", this is due to the different meaning in colloquial form. In informal language Badu refers to those whose ethnic origins are within the Gulf region, and some have used it as a stereo-type to mean uneducated and close-minded. This is in opposition to those who are not originally from the Gulf region, which (in their initial advent) were mostly financially capable, and come from many different countries. The stereo-types are, of course, stereo-types, and as such not to be depended on. It is extremely important to mention that although Nomads are very few, the tribes who have settled long ago still maintain most of the value and beliefs of their older Nomadic-self, and stil adhere to tribal values. Not all, of cousre, but it's still qutie common. AbbasAD (talk) 06:56, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Clothing
I have read that Bedouins have developed a layer system of clothing that is famous for its efficiency of keeping one cool from the desert heat. I would like it if this article had some information on this.


 * Actually not only Bedouins use this, it consists of a sort of cloak on top called Aba'a, which is made of heavy wool to use in the cold winters or light cotton for the summer. The summer one is not tightly woven and in both cases it is not tightened around the body.  In the summer heat one sweats and this Aba'a allows the air to move freely inside it which cools the body by drying the sweat - it is only efficient if two conditions are met: 1) the inner cloths (underwear and external clothing) are not tight fitting and 2) you are in a dry area, a humid weather does not help because the sweat will not be absorbed by the dry air.


 * Hence the layers are three: a. underwear. b. outer clothes. c. Aba'a. However, don't imagine that it is exceptionally efficient; it's only better than wearing tight clothes in the summer - which most people avoid during hot months wherever they are.  In my understanding, three layers of clothing is not really rare worldwide - not in the past and not in the present. --Maha Odeh 09:12, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I am also interested in their clothing, specifically their white headdress (can be seen in the second picture in the article). I'm sure other cultures use similar devices for sun protection, but it seems to be common to most bedouins. Does anyone know what it is called, what it is made of, how it is worn? I think their clothing should get a mention in this article, which could be hyperlinked to more specific articles dealing with each item. Clothing is an important aspect of culture, whether it is unique or not, and it should probably be mentioned. LostCause 01:40, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The cloth is called Keffiyeh (all three photos), follow link for details. The name differs depending on the design and the way it is worn.  The rope thing is called Agal.


 * In the photo you inquired about he just folded the square shaped Ghutra (white Keffiyeh) into a triangle, laid it on his head with the pointed part towards his back and fixed it on with the Agal (so it won't fall off as he moves around) then he took one side and casually threw it on his other shoulder, just the fashion of the time. The fashion these days is to hold each of the two sides and throw it on the top of your head causing the sides of head (mainly the hair) to show (see last photo).  The formal way is just to let it drape.


 * I think it just seems complicated because you are not used to it, but it's way simpler than the ordinary tie.

Defacing
Someone clearly defaced this article. I am not an expert on this subject, I just thought it was appropriate to notify someone.

3:57pm UT August 31 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.150.160.171 (talk) 14:58, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Anarchists
Is it not fair to label this group of people an anarchist group in the good senses of the word as its meaning is listed on the wikipedia. As it appears there is no centralized group this would seem as an anarchist society. I believe it should be mentioned as a successful anarchist example.

BiTMAP

new pic
add this pic to the article



The picture was taken in 1925 of man from Shammar tribe with Asiatic Cheetah ( Fahd Sayyad or Fahd Alrabi)..bedouin use this animal for hunt.
 * Where was the picture taken, and where was it found? Also seems like the licensing is wrong. Funkynusayri 17:16, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * picture was taken in the southwest portion of iraq, he is bedouin and before 4 years from taken this picture (Al Rashid)Shammar tribe was rule almost all arabia and part of iraq--Hisham ibn Oamr Alharbi 23:36, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, got any more information? Give me all information about the picture and the man in it, then I'll upload it to Commons with a comprehensive description, then we can put it different places on Wikipedia. Where did you find the image? Funkynusayri 00:02, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of entire section on Changing ways of life - Israeli case
Someone has deleted this entire section, which I do not think was warranted, exactly. Certainly, the section needed a lot of work, and needed to be cut back A LOT, and it would have been good to get different sources. However, it would have been much more collegial for the user who did the edit to have edited it a bit himself and come here to suggest that we join in too. At the moment I do not have the time to do the work. Here's the article section before the cut and here's the history. LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 17:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

FYI I have taken the section and created the entry unrecognized villages.LamaLoLeshLa (talk) 23:23, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

What does this phrase mean?
"especially as hot ranges have shrunk" --Filll (talk | wpc ) 15:45, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Origins
I know it's hard to trace the origins of this ethnic group, but wasn't there an origins section just like every other ethnic group gets on wikipedia?

Bedouins are just Arab nomads, what's so difficult to understand? Akmal94 (talk) 23:58, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

weird
Isn't the listing of 'Africa' and the 'Middle East' as areas of habitation of the bedouins rather too vast areas to be mentionned? True is however that Bedouin population doesn't follow political borders, but what sort of land are we in atuality refering to when using these enormous pieces of land as reference? A more specific geographical reference should be stated. 83.255.5.252 (talk) 23:26, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Weird maybe - but true
Yes this are vast amount's of land mass. Whole Beduin tribes and alliances moved from areas such as Hedjas and Yemen to places like Sudan or Mauretania.Example: Rashaida.

Merge ?
But why is the article on Beduins in the Negev so exidingly long while the actual article Beduin is kept in such a poor state? This should be the opposite way around and the Negev article should be shortened, only giving relevant information, then the two should be merged.But without focus on the Negev beduins alone.

Occupied Palestine vs Israel
This article uses Occupied Palestine to refer to locations within the pre-1967 Israeli borders. For example, the Khawalid tribe is "located near Nofit" pretty far from the West Bank. That is, this article seems to be claiming that all of Israel is occupied territory. Besides being a non-neutral point of view, that misled me when I came here looking to see which tribes live in Israel vs. Arab territories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JeffreyYasskin (talk • contribs) 06:58, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * That was due to an IP changing it 6 hours ago, I noticed the change and reverted it before I read this. Dougweller (talk) 07:44, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Gaddafi
Why is there no mention of the most famous Bedouin?? At the very least an image should be included to improve on the integrity of the article. It's like having an article about African Americans without mentioning Martin Luther King jr. I'm comparing the two men solely on their significance, not on whether we agree or disagree with their actions/beliefs. Lakerking04 (talk) 03:20, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Gaddafi is certainly not the most famous Bedouin. All the ruling families in the gulf are of Bedouin origin, and so are many inhabitants in Jordan. AbbasAD (talk) 07:00, 29 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Gaddafi was genetically Jewish and Italian. 86.186.93.14 (talk) 02:37, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

organisation of the tribes section
Would it not be easier to organise this section by the modern states within the border of which Bedouins currently predominantly reside? Koakhtzvigad (talk) 03:56, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Bedouin Housing
I am doing a project on Bedouin...please, I would really like to know more about their housing. If anyone has information, please share it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.27.237.213 (talk) 00:14, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Multi-Racial/Ethnic Bedouins?
Was wondering why the ancient Bedouins are described as "white Arabs" instead of being a multi-ethnic group of Arabs, to include Africans, whom were probably the most ancient, since they were known to have occupied the southern regions of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, and Iraq since 4000 B.C.? The questionable explanation that their presence is due solely to Arab importation during slavery, which actually did not occur until after the 6th century; does not explain many aspects of their ancient history, religions and culture in the region.

Interestingly enough, I recently had my DNA tested (twice), and one of my maternal genetic markers, indicates ancestry from the Bedouin of Israel. I was shocked, which prompted me to delve deeper into this history, since pheontypically, I am of African descent. I think many of these ethnic classifications might be too narrowly defined, limiting ones ability to accurately document our very diverse human populations and ancestral origins. Never would I had thought to look in this direction until these [scientific] DNA results proved otherwise. Don't know if this YouTube link is allowed, but there is one clip where it shows these Black Bedouin Shepherds in Israel 74.229.102.208 (talk) 21:57, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It is not difficult to find images of Black Bedouins online. Al Mukalla, Yemen, 1946

https://www.prmprints.com/image/800343/seated-portrait-of-three-bedouin Bir Ali' well, Saudi Arabia. https://www.prmprints.com/image/800045/group-portrait-of-bedouin-boys
 * So why are there none on Wikipedia? 83.84.100.133 (talk) 22:19, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Bedouins are most definetely not black nor are they multi-ethnic in any sense. The Africans are not native to the middle east, they are primarly descended of black slaves via the arab slave trade. You also have no proof at ALL that black people have inhabbited these areas, black people have their origins in africa regardless of where they are living. Also that video is afrocentrist garbage with no historical basis at all.
 * Nowadays you could prove that with DNA testing. Also "Black people have their origins in Africa?" People have their origins in Africa. And they were Black in phenotype when they left Africa to populate Europe (Western Hunter Gatherers), North Africa (Iberomaurusians), the Middle East (Natufians), Arabia, India (Andamanese Islanders), East Asia, Papua New Guinea, Australia and Tasmania - between 50,000 and 35,000 years ago. 83.84.100.133 (talk) 22:19, 14 October 2019 (UTC)


 * How about the Queen of Sheba. Wasn't she Black? 86.186.93.14 (talk) 02:39, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Why is this article rated as "low-importance" in WikiProject Ethnic Groups?
What is the rationale for this rating? Jarble (talk) 16:55, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Unrecognised villages
"As for the rest, they live in so-called unrecognized villages which are not officially recognized by the state due to general planning issues. They were built chaotically without taking into consideration local infrastructure." This is a truly impressive distortion. Of course everybody knows that they don't have local infrastructure because the state refuses to provide it. Zerotalk 03:51, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

"Ethnic" or "Ethnoreligious" Group?
The opening sentence has been changed fromsaying that the Bedouin are an ethnic group to an "ethnocultural" group. According to Wikipedia, the term ethnocultural refers to ethnoreligious groups - ethnic groups which share a religion. As far as I am aware, not all Bedouins are Muslim, so they should be labelled as an ethnic group. However, on the other hand, Christian Bedouins (and the wider Christian Arabs) tend to adopt different Christian/Western-based cultures compared to their ancient ancestors, so perhaps they don't count as Bedouins. In the latter case it would be accurate to label Bedouins as an ethnoreligious group.

No, Saudi Arabian Bedouins are not the same as African Bedouins, Central Asian Bedouin etc. Bedouin means nomad like any nomad it doesn't have any ethnic or racial value. Most people of Saudi Arabia are were Bedouins but all of them are settlers now. The national drees of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait etc (Keffiyeh and thoub) is a Bedouin dress aka Arabian. It's only has ethnic meaning in Palestine/Israel, but even though the Bedoiuns there look different than those in Arabia and Arabian Bedouin who moved to the Levant. They probably came from to Palestine from Sinai, Egypt. (10/Feb/2019) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.166.158.189 (talk) 06:16, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Population Numbers
The first two listings of population numbers (global and Sudan) seem to be inflated, particularly the Sudan statistic. Neither numbers are stated in the links given. Since Sudan has an Arab population of over 20 million, the given number indicates that nearly half of the Arab population in Sudan is considered Bedouin, which is an improbably high proportion when compared to other predominately Arab countries on the list. Additionally the total population should be a range of estimates rather than the probably inaccurate number listed here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.11.243.197 (talk) 07:36, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Hawkwind
A bandmember of Hawkwind has a band called Bedouin but that is NOT mentioned on this page, like in " other pages" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPVSMFTG5cw quote album recorded by Bedouin http://www.last.fm/music/Bedouin

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.96.201.236 (talk) 10:43, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Common culture joke?
So I read the intro, and then the first paragraph ended in this line:

They are traditionally divided into tribes, or clans (known in Arabic as ʿashāʾir; عَشَائِر) and share a common culture of herding camels and goats.

The author of this line then referred to a page that can't be viewed publicly.

Is this a joke? Reducing the culture to just camels and goats? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.19.13.229 (talk) 08:28, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

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Bedouin in Central Asia




There is no evidence that these are Bedouin and the claimed source of these images is not the original source. I can find at least one of these in the Library of Congress collection where it is simply labeled "Meals of Central Asians" and states that the "Photograph shows eight men seated on blanket eating at entrance of tent." The one with a camel can be found here at another Library of Congress site. Both of these are from Turkestan from the same publication. Doug Weller talk 16:13, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I've changed the description on Commons. All copies of these almost certainly come from the same source. Doug Weller  talk 16:30, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

"The Ghost Photo"
I wanted to talk about the first picture on the right today because not much people can see the mistake or the "creepeness" in the photo.If you look at the bottom right area of the page, you will see a ghost like picture.I would like everyone including me to know what it is.I would also want it to be deleted because it is scary.It would be a pleasure if you did so.Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:1701:806F:A942:3650:9D54:C88A (talk) 03:57, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

What on earth are you talking about? 1.152.105.178 (talk) 23:51, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

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Two conflicting etymologies
The very first paragraph gives one etymology, just to have different other provided in the following etymology section. -- 31.16.254.254 (talk) 14:00, 30 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Not conflicting, just with the singular and plural mixed up. Eperoton (talk)

Issues with Israel and Palestine Section
A couple of issues in the Israel/Palestine section 1) This sentence “They are allotted child cash benefits, which has contributed to the high birthrate among the Bedouin (5% growth per year).” - Hopefully this doesn’t need much explanation. This is racist. Added "Citation needed" here but honestly it needs to be deleted. 2) The citation for the above selection comes from an evangelical Christian website whose express purpose is changing the target population’s religion. When the webpage starts with a “Percent Progress” for Christianity conversions, it is very difficult to imagine exactly how they are qualified to speak on any of these issues. Added "unreliable source" here. Recommend removing this source and all information attributed to it. 3) A lot of this section reads from the Israeli government administration/planning perspective. The reader gets one vague sentence about how the European Parliament called for more respect for the rights of the Bedouin people. I find this very one-sided because there is essentially nothing in this section that speaks from the Bedouin perspective. How do the Bedouin populations within Israel feel about urbanization and changing their way of life? Unfortunately, I am no expert in this field, but is there anybody else who is familiar with other potential sources and content we could use here?

Postaltoad (talk) 22:08, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Religion
There is no section about religion. Eg What kind of Christianity do the Jordanian Christian Bedouins follow? What religious practices do the Sunni Bedouin follow, eg do they rest on Fridays? What is the practice for becoming engaged and what happens at a wedding? Can someone who has reliable information please create such a section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by FreeFlow99 (talk • contribs) 13:04, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Mistaken photo for Merzouga, Morocco
In the Maghreb section there's a picture of a man leading a camel caravan. Merzouga is a very touristic city, as are its sand dunes. I think the people riding the camels may be tourists. The nomads don't actually live at the sand dunes. BrianKovo (talk) 22:09, 6 February 2023 (UTC)