Talk:Beer in the United States/Archive 1

Let the natives drink beer.
''The lager brewed by these companies was ... designed to meet the appetites of both native Americans and central European immigrants.''

... says the article ... leaving me wondering "Well, what about the appetites of the British and Irish immigrants and their decendants? Surely their tastes would have been worth considering."

If by native Americans what was meant was indeed white people, then the sentence needs rewriting. On the other hand maybe they really did brew the larger for the Indians: if this is the case, leave it.

Jimp 6Jul05

Maybe
The whole article needs a little touching up. On the specific point above, it's technically a correct statement because lagers are more to the taste of central europeans. If you look at beers in England and Ireland, they are technically Ales. So if we are really splitting hairs one could say the 'large commercially brewed beers were designed to accomidate the tastes of Americans and European Immigrants."

There are just so many little details that are missing and assumptions that have been made in a lot of these beer articles.

Throughthelens 20 Jul 2005

Is this historically correct?
This post on Slashdot gives an interesting explanation to the perceived inferiority of American beers: Prohibition made people tolerate "green" beer, which is only palatable ice-cold; and even after its end, big companies kept doing it because it's cheaper than the way they do in Europe -- where they drink it cool, not cold. Can someone check these facts? -- Stormwatch 14:35, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

While I cannot provide any sources, this is essentially true. Prohibition turned the beer making over to the gangsters, essentially. They made beer lower in alcohol, because it was quicker that way and/or they could stretch it further by watering down the beer. It was not aged long, because they wanted quick turnover. They didn't use hops, because hops are only used for making beer and could be traced by the law. So after drinking it for 13 years, the public got used to it, and when prohibition ended, and real breweries started up again, they found that the cheap stuff sold better than the real stuff, the public taste had changed, and the pale lager became the most popular kind. Then "light" beer was created, and did badly for a while, but the "tastes great, less filling" marketing campaign fixed that for all time, and cemented light lager as the most popular and commonplace beer in the USA.

In fact, this situation has gone on for so long that "beer" in the USA is even thought of a "light lager". That is, when most people picture a beer, they picture that light golden color, not any other style of beer. A surprising amount of people older than 60-ish are unaware that beer can even *be* anything else.

Lately, the resurgence of homebrewing (thanks to Carter in 1978) has changed the American landscape of beer, and what you see a lot more of now are microbrews. Microbreweries are the fastest growing beer market in the USA. While light lagers still dominate the market, there have been something like 1200 new breweries opened in the USA in the last 20 years. Otto42 18:12, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Nonsensical / Unsupported?
This section below seems out of place and/or nonsensical. It was apparently added by blocked user Scottfischer. The very last bit about it being "doubly so, triple spoken fresh" was added by IP 24.92.51.255. The only info I can even dig up on Greg Latreille has to do with his being an engineer of some sort in Alaska.

''The popularity of micro-brewing, or home-brewing, has been skyrocketing as of late. Home-brewing has created a sub-industry led by micro-brew visionaries such as Greg Latreille of Alaska, whose "Flavor Explosions" have been the talk of industry magazines. Mr. Latreille ran his first home-brew contraption out of his college apartment. 'His beer flowed freely and frequently to the mouths of local patrons and friends, providing for many a satisfying night. After the completion of his college career, Mr. Latreille packed his equipment and graced the peoples of Alaska with "Beers of the Fat.", and doubly so, triple spoken fresh.'  -- 220.4.54.237 08:39, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree and have deleted. Of note the list of beers given on the link is far longer than that in the article. I am aware that industry likes to have as many categories as possible, so everyone can win a prize at annual contests. Stamford spiney 13:25, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Completely agree. Many on the list while "different" are just basically variations on a theme.  I can (in the coming days) tinker with the list to make it more compact and concise, not to mention make the entire article look more professional. Radagast83 19:24, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

References need
I think the article is a good overview (kudos to previous editors), but at some point references need to be found to support the assertions in it. Thetrick 19:30, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Hopheads
Hi, I've cut-and-pasted the "Hopheads" section here:
 * Hophead in American slang is a beer drinker who favors highly hopped brews, often specifically hops of the Cascade variety. Hopheads often take great pleasure in India Pale Ales and other beers done in the hoppy West Coast style. The term can be used either by one who claims to be a hophead, or perhaps in a derogatory manner by one who is less affectionate towards overly hoppy beer.  A good example, and perhaps the epitome, of a hophead's brew is Stone Ruination IPA. The Cascade hop is native to the American Pacific Northwest and is distinguished by a floral or citrus-like aroma and an intense bitter taste. It is very rarely used by non-American brewers.''

... because, as per Merriam-Webster "hophead" means drug-addict, and I dispute this section's claim that hophead could also be "American slang" for someone who favours strongly hopped beer. And the rest of this section just rambles on a bit about hoppy beer in an unencyclopedic manner, so, like I said, I threw the entire thing out. Sorry. What do you think? Maikel (talk) 23:16, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I disagree. I've known the term "hophead" for many years to mean a person who loves strongly hopped beer. I doubt the term is used very much anymore for a drug addict. Perhaps the section can be improved, but I say keep it, as it provides information about something peculiar to American beer and American beer culture. I've undone the edit. --Skylights76 (talk) 03:43, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Criticism
There should be a critiscism section, about how many people world wide think of it as weak and with out body. For example, we could talk about the German reaction to Budweiser being the official beer of the 2006 world cup. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.89.208.135 (talk) 22:19, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps a criticism of specific beers are warranted in their respective article (such as the Budwiser incident), but lumping all companies in a nation together in 1 criticism section in this article seems inappropriate. Travis T. Cleveland (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging
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Narragansett Brewing Company
Hello folks. I am hoping that I can talk an editor who is interested in the US brewing industry into giving some love to the Narragansett Brewing Company (Rhode Island) article/stub that I just created. I've looked into it a bit and it has a rich and fascinating history complete with wealthy industrialists, a huge philanthropic gift to Brown University, prohibition-era hijinks and early-80s economic doom. It's too far afield for me, unfortunately, but I am glad to at least have put a stake in the ground with the stub. Anyone? --AStanhope 22:58, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Untitled
This talk page was stagnant and contained no active discussion for several months. Consequently, it was moved to an archive for reference.

Clean Up
This page needs a clean up. Here's a quick list of problems to fix and some suggestions.


 * History section full of stuff that's not even history.
 * I've done some work on this and removed the trivia.philosofool (talk) 21:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Lots of trivia
 * It's gone. If that information can be reintegrated into the article in an appropriate way, it should be, but it occupied far too much of the content of the article.philosofool (talk) 21:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Types of Beer is just a big list. There should be some narrative content with this list, a quick over view for the reader that doesn't want to chase fifteen different links to find out about fifteen styles of beer. Also the orginal list emphasizes what's of american origin; it should include what is brewed in the U.S., whether the style is american in origin or not.
 * Started on this. This section needs to find balance by providing relevant information without going overboard. I hope this is a nice start.philosofool (talk) 21:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Social/Health Consequence
This article should probably include a discussion of the social perceptions of beer in America and the health consequences of beer. However, these need to be NPOV and preferably involve precise facts rather than vague generalizations. Since these articles tend to be edited by individuals that like or love beer, that isn't the easiest thing to do.

Also, "representing both sides" usually makes an article schizophrenic. A clearer discussion arises when the uncontested facts are presented in the most neutral way possible. philosofool (talk) 23:47, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

No mention of malt liquor
Based on sales volumes alone malt liquor would have to be a major component of the USA brewing industry, and malt liquor is definitely a beer, being represented overseas by such styles as Euro superlagers. Why no mention here, with a link to the Malt Liquor article? --MichaelGG (talk) 06:39, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that it should be mentioned. However, I think this article shows that malt liquor is not a very large part of the american beer market and is shrinking in size. Market share of beer in 2000 was just 3.1%, compared with 14% for craft beer. Also, these beers aren't made by independent breweries but instead represent part of the portfolio of the macros. Anyway, I think you are right that it should be mentioned.philosofool (talk) 18:12, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Low alcoholic content?
Most mainstream beers such as Budweiser have an alcohol - by - volume of 5% which places them in the same range as most German and other European pilsener style beers, and currently stronger than most Australian beers. Perhaps this misapprehension arose as a result of the USA labelling beer alcohol by weight. As alcohol is lighter than water this results in a figure that is only about 4%. Not the same thing at all.--MichaelGG (talk) 06:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * American beer is not especially low in alcohol, even the Macro brewed lager. philosofool (talk) 18:15, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

California Common = Kölsch???
Why is California Common described as "a kolsch type beer"? It has nothing to do with Kölsch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.206.101 (talk) 20:34, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Removed the part equating Kölsch with California Common, since it's nonsense. 212.139.63.45 (talk) 20:38, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

American lager
It is currently tagged for discussion regarding it being moved to a separate article, yet no discussion has begun. I see no good reason it cannot have its own page, with a re-direct being posted under the current "Styles" section. Thoughts?--Chimino (talk) 20:46, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * As the talk section of this article appears to be a dead zone, I've deleted the American Lager section, and listed a redirect under the Styles section. The article reads much better now as a result.--Chimino (talk) 14:59, 23 March 2011 (UTC)