Talk:Begging/Archives/2012

NPOV?
The first few entries in the list of "spange lines" seem to be described in a somewhat contemptuous manner. Note, for example, the quotes around the word "clever."

Beggars may be dangerous
I have one beggar who who called me a murderer after he said that he had to feed their families. He called me a "murderer" because that I refused to give them money. When I noticed he had a big, long knife in his pocket, I immediately gave him some spare change and scrambled off to my car as fast as I could. -- Stevey7788 06:02, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hypocrisy?
You say you patrol for "racism". Why do you clutter a wikipedia article with a personal bad anecdote. You are a student of Asian languages and thank you for your many contributions on that topic. But how would you like it if the word "beggar" above was exchanged for a racially or ethnically tinged word?

Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia where entries are based upon published citable writings, preferably from credible sources such as academic studies and official investigatory reports. Journalism is unfortunately used way too much, as are opinion pieces in blogs. But there is no role on Wikipedia for original research, nor is a personal anecdote a basis for wikipedia or for that matter dry "dead tree" encyclopedias.

Sorry that happened to you, but taking out your revenge by making deleterious entries on Wikipedia is not the means to achieve nirvana. Brothercanyouspareadime (talk) 21:49, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Cyberbegging and Begging on the Internet
I propose a merger. Cyberbegging is just attracting spam (HTML links to promote their cyberbegging site). -- Perfecto 19:31, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Cyber Begging Article Does Not Need to Be Merged
No need for a big long debate. There is a mature article about this subject under Internet begging. Also, Internet begging is a distinct enough phenomenon to warrant a separate article. Schmeitgeist 23:40, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Revisions
I made a number of changes -- many of the sections were riddled with contemptuous and clearly biased language. All instances of the pejorative term 'mark' were changed to 'solicited' or a variation thereof, and words like "clever" were removed.

I also removed a ridiculous sentence that suggested begging was inexcusable in times of economic prosperity & which had been linked to a newspaper editorial page. Nickinmontreal 01:38, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Just added in under 'use of funds' that giving people vouchers or actually buying them food doesn't always help. I don't know how to cite as a reference that someone I met once had been begging to try to get accomodation for the night, but instead he'd been given about thirteen burgers from the fast food outlet down the road which really did not help. Dragongirlhellfire (talk) 14:29, 27 June 2010 (UTC)


 * It's a not uncommon experience, but it's original research, and needs a source. JNW (talk) 14:42, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Crime
In SEVERAL areas of the US, this is considered a criminal matter, incl. "Vagrancy" punishable by a 30-180 day stay in JAIL, pending if the judge is pissed at the defendants. 205.240.146.156 05:58, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Any comments ? 205.240.146.156 06:00, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * sounds like one way for the truly needy to get free food and shelter for a few weeks... 199.214.24.219 (talk) 23:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Other kinds of beggers
What about the salvation army kettle drives, aren't they begging for money,or are they "asking" for a "donation"? Or how about little leauge hocky teams, girl guides,or other "charities" that stand out side buisnesses(malls,convienience stores,gas stations) and "solicite" for money? It's still begging,one is nicely presented, while the others not. A beggar is still a begger...just food for thought


 * Heck, for that matter, what about PBS? Never quite understood why panhandling laws don't apply to them.... -- Kendrick7talk 22:59, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Charities such as the Salvation Army are usually licensed to bellring for donations. They do not use the money, either, it is used to give food and clothing to the poor and homeless. As for groups such as scouts, sports teams, and clubs, they are usuallying selling candy bars, popcorn, cookies, or other small items for money. This is obviously not begging, as the consumer paying money gets something in return... just food for thought. --204.248.58.136 (talk) 01:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Medieval begger
I found the picture of the Medieval begger somewhat comedic. If other people think this is funny maybe it should be removed. It's next to 'real' beggers who are obviously in a bad way and then there is this guy who is in a park in some first world country dressed up with an almost grin on his face.
 * Sure, some are in a "bad way", others go panhandling as a joke - it varies. However, the picture caption could be updated a bit to make it more realistic - no need to censor an appropriate image. 134.117.137.66 22:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Distinctions
I dislike that this article is the target of a redirect from Panhandling, and specifically mentions "peddling" in a bad context a few times. These two things have virtually nothing to do with begging. Begging is asking for money. Peddling is selling things as a Peddler, a completely unrelated article that doesn't even link back here. I myself have sold my crafts (origami models, of the 2-8 hour variety) in situations that would qualify as peddling. Sparr (talk)

Wholesale deletion of Folk Wisdom Concerning Begging
The parenthetical explaining the edit is dismissmissive. I think the section is useful and up to WK standards. I'm putting it back. David in DC 14:30, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Vote for deletion. Paul Slocum 18:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. Apart from the dubious concept of "folk wisdom" and it being irrelevant to the article itself, which is already a bit of a mess as it is, the second supposed example of "folk wisdom" may qualify as such but has nothing at all to with begging.GBH 12:06, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, I'm convinced. Thanks for discussing it here.  I'll go delete it now. David in DC 14:16, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Removed 'Begging techniques'
This section was deeply prejudicial, including words like 'ruse', 'subliminal psychological interrogatories'. There may well be some truth in some of what was said, but it is all based on original research and unverifiable claims. Not encyclopaedic at all. This is a good topic for an article, and could be so much better than this. Annatto (talk) 21:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC) I disagree. The section you removed would be encyclopedic. There must be a study of techniques used by beggars (that could be used for reference). The section was very useful and I encourage somebody to revive it (or at least consult it). Typical of this encyclopedia, this is one step forward, two steps back (and so on, ad infinitum).206.75.198.6 (talk) 15:15, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

No begging in Cuba?
I have received multiple reports of begging in Cuba. Can someone back the statements about begging being low in Cuba?. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.16.66.35 (talk) 16:01, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Major Bias Problems
Hey, I put in the bias tag. I am an activist who focuses on homeless issues, and much of this article--aggressive panhandling, use of money, etc.--is from the viewpoint of the government, often trying to gentrify their cities. There are no definite statistics and a large amount of sources about governments passing laws against begging. I realize my perspective is also biased, this article should not simply be a mouthpiece for people who are bothered by or want to illegalize begging. It must be a balnaced article that includes the perspective of the beggars. There are a lot of changes and additions to be made to this article, and I will start editing it tommorrow in as neutral a way as I can.


 * It is not clear what more we require to present the "perspective of the beggars". The anonymous editor above did not seem to follow-up and so I am removing this tag. Colonel Warden (talk) 13:14, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The article starts with "agressive panhandling", going on to "restriction of beggars". It's obvious this article is biased, as it tries to deal with begging as a solely criminal problem, while it is, firstly, a socioeconomical issue. As for the matters of "perspective of the beggars". For starters, why are there beggars? To the ones that beg because they lack in finances, why don't they have money? How many beggars chose to be beggars? Is there any kind of statistics? Depoiments from the panhandlers, from the governments and such. In my opinion, only after seeking it's root - why the begging exists - is that this article should handle agressive panhandling. I'm not defendind panhandling in any way - I've been robbed twice by beggars, by the way. I just want to know why it happens. Added POV tag LuizMarcco (talk) 01:17, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * You were robbed by thieves, not beggars. Aero13792468 (talk) 10:52, 9 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree that it is clear that there has been some very biased editing on this page. For instance, it starts right off the bat with a link to the "coney catching" articles but neglects to mention that they were defending the beggars. It also omits many more positive portrayals in literature, altogether. There is a lot of hate written against beggars all over the web so it is not surprising that on wikipedia there would be that bias. It is not a matter of "presenting the perspective of the beggars" it is a matter of NPOV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikidgood (talk • contribs) 03:38, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Panhandling -- not homeless
http://blogs.discovery.com/sleuth_truth/2008/07/to-be-or-not-to.html JToddMatthews (talk) 01:36, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Atlanta, GA ban
The article mentions a ban that was approved in 2005 with the mayor expecting to turn it into law. Is there an update? 68.19.237.79 (talk) 04:22, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Child Beggers
"Child beggars are heavily common in the inner city areas of Toronto and Vancouver" I have lived in inner-city Vancouver now for 4 months and have never seen a child begging - not even once. (I cannot view the given reference either to confirm this). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.6.209.196 (talk) 21:24, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Hedge against data loss on possible merger - non=admins now can access this without trying to track down admin who may delet cone catching article
Coney-catching is Elizabethan British slang for theft through trickery. It comes from the word "coney" (sometimes spelled conny), meaning a rabbit raised for the table and thus tame.[1]

A coney-catcher was a thief or con man.[2]

The term was used in 1592 pamphlets by Robert Greene,[3] the titles of which included "The Defence of Conny-catching," in which he argued there were worse crimes to be found among "reputable" people, and "A Disputation betweene a Hee Conny-catcher and a Shee Conny-catcher." [edit] References

1. ^ 1  2. ^ 2   3. ^ 3

1. Bryson, Bill. Shakespeare: The World as a Stage. HarperPress, 2007 2. "Coney Catching," http://internetshakespeare.uvic.ca/Library/SLT/history/coney-catching.html 3. "Robert Greene's Social Pamphlets," http://www.bartleby.com/214/1604.html Stub icon 	This linguistics article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.v · d · e Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coney-catching" Categories: Slang expressions | Archaic English words and phrases | Linguistics stubs — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikidgood (talk • contribs) 03:36, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Citations in Chinese are not useful on English Wikipedia
Citations in Chinese are not useful on English Wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brothercanyouspareadime (talk • contribs) 21:43, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:RS does not require that the source be in the language of the wikipedia. It sure helps though, and at a minimum someone should translate the link-name itself so readers can decide if they will want to bother trying to translate it. That's why has   and   parameters. I'm more concerned about the reliability of the sources themselves...for example, the first non-English ref (農禪vs商禪, presently footnote #3) points to an apparent blog. DMacks (talk) 22:50, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Especially in the case of a language that so few editors can be expected to understand, however, it would help dispel scepticism to add a translated excerpt from the source, for convenience. The "cite web" template has a  parameter, too. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 13:36, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Section on Boston
"In May 2010, police in the city of Boston started cracking down on panhandling in the streets in downtown, and were conducting an educational outreach to residents advising them not to give to panhandlers. The Boston police distinguished active solicitation, or aggressive panhandling, versus passive panhandling of which an example is opening doors at store with a cup in hand but saying nothing.[13]"

This section of the article just seems a little unclear to me. Was the point of the second sentence to bring to light the fact that the police distinguished a difference between active and passive begging? Is the latter considered begging? In this case was it even punished in Boston? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.214.110.95 (talk) 14:26, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Way too many images
Is it really necessary to have ten images of real-life beggars? I think not. I've added a tag for now, but I'll start removing some of the images in a week if nobody else has by then. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 02:11, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Using US-centric language
The heavy use of the (partial?) synonym "panhandling" seems unfortunate when that word is so tied to US English only. Oak (talk) 19:12, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Jimmy Wales picture
Is it really appropriate to have that picture of Jimmy Wales at the top of the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.215.141.186 (talk) 15:23, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

It is absolutely fitting. 137.229.183.2 (talk) 19:58, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Alan Abel
Alan Abel wasn't a beggar... he was a prankster who was making jokes. It's silly to list him as one. Anyway, I would remove this myself but the page is protected and I don't have an account. Someone should either provide a source that he spent part of his life as a beggar, or remove him from the article entirely.--216.31.211.11 (talk) 22:49, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Seems reasonable--doesn't sound like he was notable as a beggar or that this was a major part of his identity--so I removed it. Easy enough to re-add if someone provides some cites that would support inclusion. DMacks (talk) 18:08, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Romania or Bulgaria
This sentence is written under the Romania section: US State Department Human Rights reports note a pattern of Roma children registered for "vagrancy and begging". But according to the reference, it is about Romani children in Bulgaria and the report itself is completely about human right issues in Bulgaria.--Abuk SABUK (talk) 22:44, 25 April 2012 (UTC)