Talk:Beijing National Stadium

In Depth section copied
The In Depth section here is copied straight from this page. Apart from being a straight copy, it's also old information, from the concept phase of the project, the design has changed since.

--41.241.214.114 05:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC) Thomas

Solar
currently under construction, this stadium will employ solar power. Suntech a Chinese solar cell manufacturer is contracted for providing photo-voltaic solar cells. Steveat1 07:40, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Thorough article about construction
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/china/article3216569.ece Badagnani (talk) 00:08, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Could anyone provide a time line of the statdium being evolved?
The article's current time line is too brief and I wish to know the date of every milestone —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.82.231.95 (talk) 05:19, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Was the design competition finalized before November 2002 or after ?

better pictures
does anyone have any better picturesof a comparable size to the one towards the end of this page? hornplayer2 (talk) 02:44, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a nice photo at http://www.flickr.com/photos/8796598@N06/2765219695, licensed under Creative Commons License. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.50.18.96 (talk) 19:57, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Name of the stadium
The official name of stadium is "CHINA'S NATIONAL STADIUM (中国国家体育场)" but not "BEIJING NATIONAL STADIUM (北京国家体育场)".--Siriudie (talk) 03:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There seems to be some credit to this, although the official name seems to be merely "National Stadium" (国家体育场).--Huaiwei (talk) 18:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * According to July's Architectural Record the stadium's name is "National Stadium", but per naming guidelines the article should be titled as the most popular title, which I feel is "Beijing National Stadium". So ironically the "full name" is shorter than the "nick name". Any thoughts?  Black  ngold29   03:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Simplified / Traditional Chinese
I confess I'm ignorant of the Chinese language, but my understanding is that the PRC gives precedence to simplified writing. Therefore I'm surprised that the Olympic venues appear to use the template that gives precedence to traditional writing. Per Manual of Style (use of Chinese language):
 * The traditional form should go first in contexts involving territories where traditional characters are used; otherwise, simplified characters should go first.

I already modified Beijing National Aquatics Center to use Template:Zh-st instead of Template:Zh-ts, but I'm surprised to find the latter template in use here (suggesting that the PRC is a territory "where traditional characters are used"). Maybe I'm misinterpreting the manual (particularly the word used, i.e. used at all?), or maybe there's something I need to learn about Chinese. Thanks in advance. - PhilipR (talk) 05:01, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In official writing (such as the president writing a verse of the poem as a gift to a president of another country), it IS in traditional Chinese. No ifs, ands, or buts. But in this case, choose both, with traditional going first, and make both sides happy. OhanaUnitedTalk page 05:17, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, but in this case it's a place name (probably not a highly formalized usage such as your example) in the PRC, so why would traditional go first? - PhilipR (talk) 05:22, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Because everything started off with traditional chinese. The communists invented the simplified version to solve the problem of high illiteracy rate. If you look at the names of high schools on the school building, they are all in traditional chinese (which puzzles a lot of people, I admit) OhanaUnitedTalk page 18:01, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * And that "communist" word seems to suggest that your comment is politically motivated. In the same way that we use British spellings in articles on the UK and American spellings on the US, we use Simplified first on articles related to China and Singapore and Traditional first on HK, Macau and Taiwan. The only exception is when dealing with articles on ancient China, where Traditional is generally preferred. This particular stadium obviously fails to fit the bill.--Huaiwei (talk) 18:23, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The communists did exactly as he said, and I think your comment suggests you are overly thin-skinned at the mere mention of the communists... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.45.72.26 (talk) 18:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If being thin-skinned is a necessary quality to conform to WP:NPOV, then thin-skinned I will be. The political system has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.--Huaiwei (talk) 08:53, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * What about places like Tiananmen or Jiayuguan? And aren't Hong Kong and Macau (and arguably Taiwan) part of China? Montemonte (talk) 15:41, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Wording/Grammar
"It was the last Olympic flame to be lit outdoors until the 2012 Summer Olympics in London, as the next one, which will be lit at BC Place Stadium in Vancouver, will be lit indoors during the opening ceremonies for the 2010 Winter Olympics."

I have no idea what this sentence is trying to say. Can somebody rewrite it please?

okay, nvm, after re-reading it I understand what it says. However - is this sentence really important enough to be in the introductory paragraph? I'll delete it shortly if there are no protests. TheFinalSay (talk) 00:52, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Pictures need better alignment
They make the page seem rather cluttered at the moment. Maybe we need to reduce the number of pictures here? Maybe keep the one in the infobox and the large one at the bottom, and remove the others? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheFinalSay (talk • contribs) 21:05, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This article is on my "to do list". I have written a few stadium articles (including PNC Park and Three Rivers Stadium) I think that the pictures are are of a good quality, and when prose has been expanded they will improve the article's overall quality. I just started classes, so it may take me a few weeks, but I will get here eventually.  Black  ngold29   01:00, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, there ya go. It's one of the shorter articles I've written, but it is an improvement over what was there before. I switched a few pictures around and tried to keep the best quality ones in the article, while showing as much as I could at the same time. It's really the same from all angles so it's kind of boring to just look at after a while. I hope the article can be further expanded, the ref list is pretty much limited to the official site coverage and a few articles from big publications; I did very little Google searching, but it's a start.  Black  ngold29   06:15, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Main picture and gallery
I like this picture for the infobox, because unlike any other pictures currently in the article, it shows the entire stadium. Is there any objection to changing it back? Also, a "Gallery" section has been added multiple times, I have removed it because there is a link to the WikiCommons page concerning the Bird's Nest in the External links. That link is a gallery, there is no need to have one here as well.  Black  ngold29   16:37, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Non-free picture
I don't understand why this image needs to be included (added, re-added). The article has more than enough pictures to adaquately show what the stadium is. We are trying to create a Free encyclopedia and by adding this image it goes against that policy. Non-free images should only be added when they are needed to show what can't be adaquately explained in the text, this is not the case with the roof.  Black  ngold29   15:55, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Illumination
Does anyone know if the Stadium is ever illuminated now that the games have finished? I went to see it the other night and was disappointed to find that both it, and the swimming center were both dark. Somewhat understandable, but surely there's a schedule for illuminating them for tourists? 222.35.61.173 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 13:59, 25 October 2008 (UTC).

Artistic consultant
Why is this continually added to the infobox? The purpose of the infobox is to give a very quick and broad overview of the stadium, not give every fact known about it. If a person was so important, then the template would have a designated space for them. Ai Weiwei's name is very clearly in the prose, nobody is being racist or not giving him credit, his position is simply not in the infobox. This doesn't diminish his contributions, it just merely means his name—along with many others—isn't in the infobox. If someone feels he should be in the infobox, perhaps it should be brought up here. Please do not add it again without previous consensus here. Thanks.  Black  ngold29   02:16, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Infobox is created by man, not by God. Understand that in real life context is important and not everything is plain cookie cutter. He is as important as the other architect. Thus, Ai Weiwei should be placed in both the infobox and prose, just as the other architect is placed. To do otherwise is nothing short of discrimination. The infobox should adapt, not his contribution. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.83.254 (talk) 08:40, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I have altered the way it is formatted, but left his name; is that a fair compromise? The infobox IS cookie cutter, that's why it's a template. I don't see how it's bias, discrimination, or racism to not add him, but leave out Li Xinggang, Stefan Marbach, or the Chinese government. All made great contributions, but they simply don't have a place in the infobox. I don't want to make this into a big deal, is that OK with you?  Black  ngold29   15:51, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't mind adding all of them. Perhaps we should. But Ai Weiwei pushes hard for the bowl-shaped design. So, at least he has to be properly acknowledged. 128.208.83.254 (talk) 02:22, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Changed images
I noticed that this recent edit replaced a couple of images in the article.

This image (1) was replaced with this one (2)  in the infobox,

and this image (3) was replaced with this one (4)  later in the article.

Personally, I prefer the prior images (1 and 3). The prior stadium image appears more balanced and has much less foreground clutter than the new image. As for the night shot, the one with the fireworks seems more interesting. Opinions? -- Tcncv (talk) 03:48, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that 1 is the better of the first pairing. Either of the second matchup works for me, but I would rather have the original unless some sort of reason is behind altering it.  Black  ngold29   04:17, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I've restored the prior images. -- Tcncv (talk) 08:28, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Higher quality images are definitely preferred. Readers can hardly view the structure and the design of the stadium in the image (3).--TheLeopard (talk) 22:41, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I also found another image of the stadium for the template. It has the same composition as image (1) but it is a newer image (from July) and has a higher resolution and visibility than image (1).--TheLeopard (talk) 23:08, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, and the sky is bluer. Sorry about that, it was a gray day in Beijing when I snapped the first one; I'd go with the last one too. bd2412  T 00:35, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I like the new infobox image. Better resolution AND less smog.  I still like the fireworks image though, but I'll yield to the consensus.  -- Tcncv (talk) 00:47, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Of the nighttime images, I find the fireworks image too busy. It detracts from the stadium itself, rather than highlighting the stadium's own internal lighting. bd2412  T 02:58, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Coordinates
The coordinates need the following fixes: 39.99098017279517
 * Write here

116.395103931427

Zyxwvut2009 (talk) 13:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Coordinates
The coordinates need the following fixes: 39.99098017279517
 * Write here

116.395103931427

Zyxwvut2009 (talk) 13:18, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Cost?
$420 million. Hmm. Sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.182.147.215 (talk) 05:54, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

stadium design?
I had recently heard that Ai Weiwei had designed the stadium not to resemble a bird's nest. Instead he designed it to resemble the straw lining latrine pits, the type his father was forced to clean during the Anti-Rightist Movement. Does anyone have a source for this? 24.55.45.81 (talk) 02:36, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

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Name
The official name is National Stadium, is it properer to name the article Beijing National Stadium, is it better to change it to National Stadium of China or National Stadium (China). Jiangyu911 (talk) 09:42, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The policy is to use the common name, if there is one, not the official name. See WP:COMMONNAME. You should research what name this stadium is most often given in the English language media and books. Rincewind42 (talk) 01:09, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

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Requested move 5 January 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved.  Calidum   03:02, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Beijing National Stadium → National Stadium (Beijing) – Both Beijing National Stadium and National Stadium in Beijing are common name. There is nothing to choose between them. If Beijing National Stadium is more common, Because of Wikipedia tile-Beijing National Stadium. This is circulation logic Trap. I think that In this case, We have to choose National Stadium (Beijing), Becasue National Stadium is official name.

Not long ago, Moving of Tokyo Nationa Stadium was denied, But Moved to National Stadium (Tokyo).

I think this is same case. I really don't know, Beijing National Stadium is common name in English, Tokyo National Stadium is not common name in English. If Beijing National Stadium is more common name, Also Tokyo National Stadium is more common name than National Stadium (Tokyo).

Finaly, if we don't have dominant commona name in English, official name is best choice.

For consistency, National Stadium (Beijing) is better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footwiks (talk • contribs) 01:36, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I'm going to start with the nominator's rationale here: Both Beijing National Stadium and National Stadium in Beijing are common name. There is nothing to choose between them. That being the case, if there's nothign to choose between them in terms of common name, then we have an inbuilt guideline to break the tie, namely WP:NATURALDIS. The current name is better and more readable than the proposed one. THanks &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 09:29, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose Same reasons as Amakuru. From what I was able to find in third-party sources, the current name of the article is regularly used to reference the stadium, so no need to move it per WP:COMMONNAME. --JonRidinger (talk) 17:16, 12 January 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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