Talk:Belarusian Democratic Republic

[Untitled]

 * Capital city was Smalensk.
 * I am afraid you are mistaken. BSSR was proclaimed in Smalensk immediately before the Red Army crushed BNR. Mikkalai 15:48, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Name
Belarusian People's Republic in belarusian : Беларуская Народная Рэспубліка, eng. transliteration : Belaruskaya Narodnaya Republika. Wrongly translated as "Belarusian National Republic", because national in belarusian is Националная.


 * Why not moving it to People's Republic then? Brugues 15:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Please follow reliable sources in the English language and do not engage in wp:original research. You have mistaken National for Nationalist; two different words with two different meanings. Poeticbent talk 19:55, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

one contributor
Wikipedia contributor Kuban coSSack's talking about dictatorial ruler Lukashenka (who massively and monstrously falsified the vote) and today's storming of the October square, when hundreds of special police arrested peaceful demonstrators, totally destoryed the camp, threw empty vodka bottles into the mess and videotaped that for Belarusan state television. Here's Kuban coSSack's comment about this police action and break-up of a peaceful protest, which took place at 3AM so that there would be no witnesses of their activity:


 * http://www.br23.net/en/2006/03/24/game-over/#comments
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rydel#.22kuban_coSSack.22

Dear fellow Wikipedians, do you understand that the only purpose of his contributions on articles about Belarus (such as Belarusian language, Belarusian history, Belarus, etc.) is to push Russian imperial POV and lies? Please, see history and talk pages of the Belarus-related articles. --rydel 16:33, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Armed Forces
Armed forces are not a legal requirement for nationhood, as the article implies -- else Costa Rica would not be a country. --Daniel C. Boyer 20:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Influence today
Does the BNR have any influence over Belarusian politics today? Fishal 01:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Not english spellings
These names should be written in English alphabet. Letters č and Ž don't exist in English.

* Jan Sierada (1918–1919) * Piotra Krečeŭski (1919–1928) * Vasil Zacharka (1928–1943) * Mikoła Abramčyk (1944–1970) * Vincent Žuk-Hryškievič (1970–1982) * Jazep Sažyč (1982–1997) * Ivonka Survilla (1997–present)
 * It's in Lacinka. 195.222.71.80 20:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

What about Red Army crimes in Belarus starting from 1918?
The article lacks some information.

Ttturbo 08:44, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Government in exile
"Similar governments-in-exile of the neighboring countries (Lithuania, Poland and others) handed back their symbolic "authorities" to the corresponding independent governments in the 1990s, after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. The BNR council has not done this because it views the current Belarusian government of president Alexander Lukashenka as an anti-Belarusian, anti-independence, and an anti-democratic power."

What happened in 1990–1991 was exactly what the government of BNR in exile was longing for. (The authoritarian regime of Lukashenko was established only in 1995) So this does not explain why they didn't hand back their authorities to the new Belarusian government in 1991–1995. — Glebchik (talk) 16:51, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

"was" should be replaced with "is"
The article states that the government is still in exile, so wouldn't it still exist, even if only de jure?--CafeDelKevin (talk) 02:23, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Recognized
Germany have not recognized Belarusian Peoples Republic. the links is not a good reference. " Belarusian Peoples Republic was recognized by Lithuania, LOatvia, Estonia, Finland, Ukrainian Peoples Republic, Czechoslovakia, and Turkey." When german recognized Belarus of an independant state ? http://www.terradelfuoco.org/pdf/uff-3_en.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.250.207.231 (talk) 12:37, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Requested move
Belarusian People& → Belarusian National Republic – Per inline citation in English, and wp:verifiability. Present name (Belarusian People's Republic) is not supported by references in the English language. The only wp:rs citation clearly says BNR... not BPR. Please see applicable naming convention policies and guidelines for support. Relisted. BDD (talk) 19:36, 27 December 2012 (UTC) Poeticbent talk 18:33, 15 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose.
 * " Present name (Belarusian People's Republic) is not supported by references in the English language." Well, it is:
 * http://www.kas.de/belarus/en/publications/31196/ an exhibition titled “Unknown Belarusian People’s Republic”
 * http://en.ehu.lt/en/events/show/exhibition-unknown-belarusian-peoples-republic An exhibition of newly discovered archival material entitled “Unknown Belarusian People’s Republic” is opening in Vilnius on March 23.
 * https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Belarusian+People's+Republic%22+-Wikipedia
 * same as for "Ukrainian People's Republic" Українська Народна Республіка
 * same as other translations of "Народная Рэспубліка"
 * Narod means people, not? be:Народ links to en:people and has a see also "Нацыя" which is linked to "Nation". NVanMinh (talk) 19:29, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. Narod means Nation, i.e. National, as in National Republic. Search results for "Belarusian National Republic" -Wikipedia amount to about 20,500 including Belarusian National Republic Anthem, Head of Belarusian National Republic government and Belarusian National Republic by The Journal of Belarusian Studies among countless others. Poeticbent talk 21:49, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * "about 20,500" ... well for "Belarusian People's Republic" -Wikipedia I get 100 000 more: "About 126,000 results". NVanMinh (talk) 22:21, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Take a second look, please. Most of your results are from Belarus, not from the English-speaking countries. According to Google books, only about 279 results mention "Belarusian People's Republic" -Wikipedia. Less than the Belarusian National Republic. Poeticbent talk 01:36, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Then why you still have " wp:verifiability. Present name (Belarusian People's Republic) is not supported by references in the English language. "? NVanMinh (talk) 07:47, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

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External links modified
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Territory
What territory occupied BLR in the fact? The map shows the range from Bialystok to Smolensk, but actually BLR did not occupy this area. Can anyone explain this? Konarski (talk) 10:19, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

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Introduction to the Article
I had to replace the introduction to the article, because almost every sentence of it was incorrect. The BPR itself was proclaimed on 9 March 1918, not on 25 March, when it declared independence. It had several diplomatic missions, not only the one in Berlin (and the source to this claim says nothing about the Berlin mission being the only one), and the mission in Riga is even mentioned in the article itself. The SSR of Byelorussia was founded on 1 January 1919 in Smolensk, not Minsk. The government in exile wasn't formed "two years later abroad", it was the same old government of the BPR that continued its work in Vilnius and then moved between different European cities, becoming more of a political organisation than a real government. Its independence didn't correspond to the Brest-Litovsk treaty, nor was its demise connected with the fall of Minsk to the Soviets. Svawald (talk) 17:55, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 * What you did, User:Svawald, is absolutely positively not acceptable by our standards. You removed references and replaced existing data with new claims which have no citations of any kind, whatsoever. This is called WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH. Sorry,  Poeticbent  talk 20:19, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but I cannot but disagree with you. Did you read the citations? Number one directly contradicts the information it's supposed to support (about the SSRB being founded in Minsk on 5 January), number three only describes the BPR's mission to Germany without making any claims about it being the only one. If you insist, I will find the citations for my variant of the text, this topic is well-researched and those facts are one of the few that are not debatable in the BPR's history. --Svawald (talk) 21:09, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Would you consider the following variant? I cited the BPR Council's own site, where they display their original founding documents, and an academic study.

The Belarusian People's Republic (Белару́ская Наро́дная Рэспу́бліка,, transliterated as Bielaruskaja Narodnaja Respublika, BNR), historically referred to as the White Ruthenian Democratic Republic (Weißruthenische Volksrepublik; ) was a failed attempt to create a Belarusian state on the territory controlled by the German Imperial Army during World War I. The BNR existed in 1918-1919.

The BNR was declared on March 9, 1918 in Minsk, and two weeks later, on March 25, 1918 it was proclaimed independent. In 1919 it co-existed with an alternative Communist government of Belarus (the Socialist Soviet Republic of Byelorussia, which later became part of the Lithuanian–Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic), moving its seat of government to Vilno and Hrodna, but ceased to exist due to the capture of the whole Belarusian territory by the Polish and the Bolshevik forces during the Polish–Soviet War. Currently, its government in exile, the Rada (Council) of the Belarusian People's Republic is the oldest still existing.
 * I'm fine with whatever you choose to include for as long as the new (and revised) information is supported by corresponding new citations. Some citations, however, are better than others, according to WP:RS and WP:V/R so please keep that in mind also. The first-party sources are the least desirable and considered unreliable. Peer reviewed works are most reliable for our purposes. Thanks,  Poeticbent  talk 01:04, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you, then I'll use this variant. Although I must remind you that under WP:WHENNOTCITE we are not required to put citations in the lead, insofar as the information there is supported by the citations in the rest of the article (and although this article has a huge problem with citations, the information I had put is, in fact, referenced) and is not controversial. Svawald (talk) 11:10, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:54, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Government of BNR.jpg

Requested move 30 August 2021
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 08:39, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Belarusian People's Republic → Belarusian Democratic Republic – The current name, Belarusian People's Republic, is of limited use in scholarly and popular literature. It does not appear in the titles of publications, judging by Google Scholar. It does not appear in book titles either. The Belarusian Democratic Republic name has a significantly wider use, incl. in scholarly literature and in literature originating in Belarus and in the Belarusian diaspora. It is also used by the Rada of BNR, the body claiming the mandate of the original Republic’s government. Note: the 2013 discussion about renaming the page for the Belarusian National Republic was inconclusive, the request was rejected. Nieszczarda2 (talk) 05:03, 30 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Support the request. The suggested name (Belarusian Democratic Republic) is used more widely. I support the reasoning expressed in the comment above. SuuriMara (talk) 09:54, 30 August 2021 (UTC)


 * I support “Democratic” - this is more widely used in English language sources.


 * NB that the title of the article was from its creation in 2005 until 2008, the target of the previous move request.  — <span style="border:1px solid #93010b;background:#ef0000;padding:2px;color:#efe6e6;text-shadow:black 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em; font-family: Georgia;"> AjaxSmack  16:17, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support the request, as based on sound arguments.--W (talk) 16:58, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Support the renaming to Belarusian Democratic Republic, as it is widely used in reliable sources. --Kazimier Lachnovič (talk) 18:31, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Change name
I suggest we rename this page to Belarusian People’s Republic because it is the correct translation of “Bielaruskaja Narodnaja Respublika”. Narodnaja doesn’t mean “Democratic”. Oh, and Translate says that “Belarusian Democratic Republic” means “Bielaruskaja Narodnaja Respublika”, probably because of wikipedia. I still support the change to Belarusian People’s Republic. TankDude2000 (talk) 17:55, 14 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Judging by the above motivations for moving, such was done on the basis that "Democratic" is more common in sources. The Government-in-exile appears to use "Democratic", however. The sources may instead be reflecting the afore-mentioned as opposed to the original entity. I've only ever known this entity as the "People's" and agree it should be changed back. There needs to be a proper debate about this! UaMaol (talk) 02:31, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Slight agree. Belarusian National Republic seems to have more hits in books, and would be more accurate than 'Democratic'. Its really weird because when looking at the article body, it cites the Rada, which goes to a website....which says Narodnaya in the archive photos. what. We shouldn't duplicate mistranslations because then other people cite wikipedia and it enters the consensus in a feedback loop. LeVivsky ( ಠ_ಠ ) 16:10, 19 March 2024 (UTC)