Talk:Belfast/Archive 1

Belfast
Belfast may only have been bombed twice during WW2 however lack of anti aircraft cover meant that there was a substantial amount of damage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.168.10.78 (talk) 14:49, 21 June 2005‎ (UTC)

Joab
What was that 'River Joab' instead of the Farset thing all about?! Was someone just on the wrong drugs, or is that an alternative name for the buried river?--feline1 17:35, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * As far as I can see vandalism, the same anon created Armegh (Armagh?) which was quickly deleted on my recommendation. Djegan 17:56, 8 June 2005 (UTC)

City of Belfast vs. Belfast City Council
Material in the article table regarding area and population is somewhat dubious, in particular "City of Belfast" does not exist as an administrative area independent from the administrative area covered by the district served by Belfast City Council. And thus material from the latter would be more appropriate? Quite frankly the thought of styling "City of Placename" in Northern Ireland is mischevious as this implies that these places exist as administrative areas in their own right, which they do not, the City Council's hold the relevent legal documents and these are applicable for the whole area of the City Council district (except in the case of Newry). Djegan 20:18, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * The County Borough of Belfast (to which the City Charter is granted) has slightly different boundaries to Belfast Local Government District. The same is true in Derry.  I think the Wikipedians had a big argument about this in a period when I wasn't posting.  Gerry Lynch 13:35, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Notable People
Rene Fusco? Can't agree that this is a notable person. Never heard of him myself and a google search yielded very few results. What's the procedure on deleting other people's edits? Stú 12:02, 26 July 2005 (UTC)


 * You have stated your objection here, that was polite. If there is no response, just edit the page yourself and remove the entry.  "If he doesn't shout - rip it out!"--ClemMcGann 12:57, 26 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't want to be the one to delete it, but is Ian Paisley a Belfast man?

I was the one who added Paisley - Paisley has lived in Belfast for 60 years - he orginated elsewhere but the notable people section is about people born/brought up/or living a significant part of their life in Belfast. For instance Dunlop who features was a Scot who lived in Belfast


 * David Dick? The Nobel site has no mention of him - deleting


 * I moved the Notable Belfast People to their own page as it was starting to dominate the Belfast page too much. Incidentally I added most of them so I have no problem doing this. It also means that in addition to an alphabetical list, they can be grouped by sports, politics, music etc.

Historic province of Ulster
Hi Feline1,

As you correctly point out above, claiming that Belfast is the "capital of Ulster" is inaccurate. However, the version I reverted to does not make this claim. It merely states the easily-verifiable fact that Belfast is the largest city in Ulster.

We've had problems before where a user went around inserting the words "historic province of" before all occurrences of the term "Ulster" in an attempt to push their POV that nine-county Ulster no longer existed and the term "Ulster" applied only to Northern Ireland. (not to mention other problems where a different user went around changing "Northern Ireland" to "Six Counties" all over the place.) While I'm sure this kind of POV-pushing wasn't your intent, please keep in mind that the geographical terms in Northern Ireland can be a hotly contested subject.

Hope this helps explain the reason for my revert.

Demiurge 13:02, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Dungannon maybe?

Belfast co-ordinates
Checking my GPS - I have Lat: 54.59658 and Lon: -5.92983 for the approximate position for the Belfast City hall, the question is - where did the co-ordinates on the main page come from? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.18.197 (talk) 20:30, 2 December 2005‎ (UTC)
 * A car park next the Westlink it seems — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.0.202.237 (talk) 17:40, 29 December 2005‎ (UTC)

List of Districts
How was the listing of "Districts" derived? Is this an inclusive list of formal district names, or is it just an arbitrary collection of the names of different parts of town.
 * I think they are all Wards of Belfast, although I don't think it is a complete list. : Keith :: 12:18, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Its rather more arbitrary as some are not in Belfast as such being in what might be called Greater Belfast User:Biglobiglo
 * I would propose removing all the red links for now? Stu   ’Bout ye!  08:38, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I have removed all the red links in the districts section, as well as the list of roads. I don't feel these are needed and were making the article very messy. I also reworded the murals section for the same reason. Stu  ’Bout ye!  09:09, 10 May 2006 (UTC)


 * A seperate article has been created for Main Roads of Belfast. I feel this isn't needed either. Anyone agree? Stu   ’Bout ye!  15:53, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Deletion? Djegan 18:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a bit unencyclopedic, really - Ali-oops&#9997; 18:37, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and listed it. Stu   ’Bout ye!  08:10, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

History
How about moving the history section to its own article in line with the histories of Irish cities template? Any takers? Jdorney 15:30, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I say go for it, but I am on holiday now. Djegan 18:29, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Short break destination
"The city recently gained the status of being the 2nd most popular city in the UK, above London and Glasgow, for short breaks."

Anyone got any references for this? I find it hard to believe that more people come to Belfast than London (if, of course, that's what "most popular" means). I had a look in Google, but the best I could find was a link to this article! MartinRobinson 00:06, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah i that refs would be nice. I know belfast is making a "comeback", but it just seems a bit out of the ordinary to be the "2nd most popular city in the UK". --Boothy443 | trácht ar 06:01, 1 March 2006 (UTC)


 * As nothing seems to be forthcoming, I have removed the sentence quoted above from the end of the first paragraph. If anyone finds a recent reference, they should feel free to insert it again. MartinRobinson 12:50, 7 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I cant find a ref for it but it was on the news and it is true!

Chinese
I would say this from the Ulster article
 * due to the considerable Chinese community of Belfast, the province's largest city. Belfast has more Chinese restaurants per capita than any other European city.

should be included here. In fact, I think the bit about Chinese restaurants should be removed from the Ulster article (the but about language and community should stay of course) Nil Einne 11:15, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 * indeed even the history article doesn't mention the Chinese community (when did they come? why did they settle in Belfast? etc) Nil Einne 11:16, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Murals
Has anyone thought about creating a separate article on Belfast murals? I have plenty of photos, which could be useful, but I do not really want to get involved in the writting (not my cup of tea, thank you) Regards,--Asterion 19:44, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it is a good idea, but i would name it Northern Ireland/Irish murals, so that way murals from Derry and other cities could also be included. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 00:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * POV minefield, but yes the subject deserves an article. Agree with Boothy, it should be Northern Irish murals. Stu   ’Bout ye!  11:12, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah thos issues would be expected in a article of the thype, but the subject could have the poential to be a featured article. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 04:40, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Forgot about this. I'm considering going ahead and creating a Northern Irish murals page. Initially I would intend to cut and paste most of the text from the mural page, leaving just the introductory paragraph and a See main article link. The article can be expanded from there. There are numerous Creative Commons images on Flickr that could be used for a. Plus if Asterion can provide any. Any suggestions? Stu  ’Bout ye!  13:26, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

International Airport
A bit much to include the International Airport as part of Belfast perhaps, its a fair few miles outside the city (11 if I recall correctly) The article even states that its near Lough Neagh, the map shows how far away this is! Alastairward 18:37, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I dont think so, it's not uncommon for the international airport of a city to be a distance away form the city proper or even the city center for that. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 04:43, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Map
Should there not be a map that shows Belfast's position in the UK and in the island of Ireland, given that it is both a British and Irish city? The current one just shows where it is in Northern Ireland. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stpaul (talk • contribs) 17:02, 10 May 2006.


 * I'd say a map showing where it is on the island of Ireland might be a good idea (with the border on it, before anyone has a tantrum! lol). The current map serves its purpose, showing where it is within NI, but it might be a little abstract for anyone not familiar with NI. And is it really necessary to show the parliamentary constituencies along with the location of Belfast? It should show the counties if anything. On the other hand, I don't think there is any need for a map with GB on it; Belfast is politically linked to GB as part of the UK, but a map is a geographical representation, and Belfast is simply located on the island of Ireland. Martin 14:14, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Belfast sports teams
I'm Looking to write a section on Belfast Sports teams can anyone tell me where I should put this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.144.90.103 (talk • contribs) 18:42, 13 May 2006.


 * Hi, I'd encourage you to register with Wikipedia before making major changes to any articles. That way, people will have more faith in your edits, and you can be contacted should anyone wish to discuss them with you. Martin 14:16, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

District pages merged
I merged some stubby district pages into the section on districts on this page. I redirected the old stubs here and removed some of the links from pages that linked to the districts that got merged. This is consistent with Articles for deletion/Precedents info on suburbs, which is the best guide I know. I also think it's just good practice not to have a short, individual article on every district of a big city like Belfast. --Chaser (T, C, e) 08:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * A one or two sentence stub seem rather useless and fit well into the main city article with a redirect from the district page unless there is some real substance to them. ww2censor 02:29, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure all those names should be in bold either. It looks a bit clutttered and I don't think it conforms to Manual of Style.  Gerry Lynch 16:05, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

CFD
The related Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from Belfast constituencies has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for Discussion page. --Mais oui! 09:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

World Gazetteer
The World Gazetteer gives no source or reference for its figures, so I've removed them pending that. Also, under no circumstances should the World Gazetteer figures be compared with the 2001 Census figures for the Belfast Urban Area; the two figures may not be calculated on the same basis - in fact given that 'estimated' increase of 17% or so, wildly unrealistic, they almost certainly aren't calculated on the same basis. Gerry Lynch 11:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * On the subject of population:  Stu   ’Bout ye!  12:02, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Images
I propose replacing some of the images on this article. The quality of some of them isn't great, and I definitely think the murals should be changed. These paramilitary type murals aren't entirely typical anymore and there are better alternatives at Northern Irish murals. Ones that I suggest be included are:


 * Stu, they shouldn't just be corralled off in a gallery like that though - it makes the article a bit too drab and difficult to read. Also, there should be a 'highlight' image in the infobox as there is for most other cities - I'd suggest your one of the City Hall. User:Gerry Lynch 18 August 2006 at about midday.

Opinions? Stu  ’Bout ye!  10:55, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Trying to whitewash the sectarian murals of the past, are we? ;-)--feline1 11:23, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Give me a bucket of paint and I'll have a go! But I don't think it is necessary to portray an overly negative view of Belfast. Stu   ’Bout ye!  11:35, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It's only necessary to portray an accurate one. Murals were first and foremost a public display of sectarianism, it would be egregious not to mention this in any encylopedia article on them.--feline1 11:49, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think that's what Stu is suggesting. In fact, I think he actually created a separate article on the very subject of murals in Northern Ireland. While the Troubles affected the whole of Northern Ireland, and Belfast suffered considerably as a result, there is much more to Belfast than just the Troubles, and I think that's the point Stu is making. --Mal 20:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * On a different point. could someone take a picture of the "sleeping giant" that is mentioned in the intro as inspiring Gulliver's Travels.- i think I know the place you mean - it's nicknamed Cleopatra's nose, or something? but to have a picture of it would surely give the sleeping giant claim a lot more identifiability to people who are completely unfamiliar with the city.--Macca7174 10:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Napoleons nose, mate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.146.148.140 (talk) 18:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

Belfast
Is this Wildlife paragraph really needed? I think perhaps it should atleast have some information added to it, or remove it completly. Not to mention the distinct lack of wildlife in Belfast, aside pigeons and rats. --Dom0803 18:28, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I did not see the Wildlife section - have added a "Natural History" section. Would "Natural Science" be better. How about "Biology"? I don't mind. I new to this contraption! I howe to find more about the woldlife & to add. Osborne 09:12, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Natural History: Readings
 * Beesley, S. and Wilde, J. 1997. Urban Flora of Belfast. Institute of Iriah Studies. ISBN 10: 085389695X

Osborne, thanks for suggestion of the book. Please feel free add something to the article about Wildlife/Natural History/Biology. Until then - I've moved the reference to the talk page. Tsumo9 23:51, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Rats?Episcopal 13:41, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Auto peer review suggestions
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and may or may not be accurate for the article in question. You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Mal 06:23, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The lead of this article may be too long, or may contain too many paragraphs. Please follow guidelines at WP:LEAD; be aware that the lead should adequately summarize the article.
 * Per WP:CONTEXT and WP:MOSDATE, months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.
 * Per WP:MOS, avoid using words/phrases that indicate time periods relative to the current day.
 * This article has no images. Please see if there are any free use images that fall under WP:IUP and WP:IT that can be uploaded. To upload images on Wikipedia, go to Special:Upload; to upload non-fair use images on the Wikimedia Commons, go to commons:special:upload.
 * Per WP:MOSNUM, there should be a non-breaking space -  between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 18mm, use 18 mm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 18&amp;nbsp;mm.
 * Per WP:MOSNUM, when doing conversions, please use standard abbreviations: for example, miles -> mi, kilometers squared -> km2, and pounds -> lb.
 * Please alphabetize the interlanguage links.
 * There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.
 * Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
 * While additive terms like “also”, “in addition”, “additionally”, “moreover”, and “furthermore” may sometimes be useful, overusing them when they aren't necessary can instead detract from the brilliancy of the article. This article has 10 additive terms, a bit too much.
 * Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “ All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
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Featured article
I've made a few changes today. These are to reflect what I've seen in other featured articles on cities. I don't think we're far away from featured status for Belfast. Peer review anyone? Or are there further changes that need to be made? Stu  ’Bout ye!  09:29, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Submitted. --Mal 16:00, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

2nd Auto peer review
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question. You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Mal 15:11, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Per WP:MOS, avoid using words/phrases that indicate time periods relative to the current day.
 * Per WP:MOSNUM, there should be a non-breaking space -  between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 18mm, use 18 mm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 18&amp;nbsp;mm.
 * Per WP:MOSNUM, when doing conversions, please use standard abbreviations: for example, miles -> mi, kilometers squared -> km2, and pounds -> lb.
 * Please alphabetize the interlanguage links.
 * There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.
 * Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
 * Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “ All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
 * Temporal terms like “over the years”, “currently”, “now”, and “from time to time” often are too vague to be useful, but occasionally may be helpful. “I am now using a semi-bot to generate your peer review.”
 * Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that the it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 2a.

GA failed
I see there is a lot of interesting info in the however. However, a GA must meet several criteria, and I must fail the article for the following reasons:
 * There are some unreferenced and sweeping statements in the article, such as Many locals have quipped that this merely shows that "God loves a drinker".; in the transport section "Belfast is, by European standards, a relatively car-dependent city, and later Black taxis are common in the city, operating on a share basis in some areas
 * Lacking any historical references. In addition, inline references are also necessary for sentences such as Belfast was heavily bombed in 1941 during World War II, killing 1,000 people and leaving tens of thousands more homeless. (History-section)
 * "Points of interest" is trivia-like. This is not Wikitravel ;-). I suggest you restructure "Points of interest" into sections such as "Architecture and cityscape" and "Arts and culture"
 * Lead -- should be expanded. For example it should say something about modern times. See some FA:s, such as Vancouver or Canberra.
 * Would be nice with a reference of any sort to the section "Local politics"

Additional concerns:
 * Could you put the reference to "Climate" in a better place? See Canberra

Sorry I can't pass the article, and that I cannot pinpoint everything that needs to be done. I suggest you look at some other GA and FA articles on cities, and structure this article after those.

Fred-Chess 13:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think all of the points have been addressed. Stu   ’Bout ye!  11:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I started reviewing this article for GA status, but ended up making a couple significant changes which might go beyond simply minor grammatical modifications. I think it's probably worthy of GA status, but I'd like another reviewer to look at it first.

One thing that could possibly hold it up, however, are the citations; while the article is well-referenced, the citations are not formatted very well, with many citations including only a single URL to a website or news article. Citations should included additional information, such as author, title, date published, who published it, and when the URL was retrieved, so as to make the citation useful even if the URL is no longer accessible. You might find WP:CITE useful in this regard.

Other than that, the article looks good! Good luck! Dr. Cash 23:56, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Wanted to get a second opinion, but after a one week lapse, with no major changes to the article or my suggestions, I think this article meets the GA criteria, so I am passing it! Editors should still review the reference citations and add necessary formatting details per WP:CITE, but it's good. Cheers! Dr. Cash 22:10, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

NPov, Belfast is Booming
Thanks for your additions, dude, it's all factually correct, well done - though I'm afraid I don't think it meets the npov criteria. Would calling it Urban Regeneration be more accurate? I think if this was written in a more neutral fashion it would be a hugely more valuable addition. Actually a vast amount of regeneration has gone on recently.martianlostinspace 20:54, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Stub, join a discussion with me about this please. I don't want an edit war.martianlostinspace 12:14, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ummm, it's Stu. Left a reply on your talk page. Stu   ’Bout ye!  09:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Cityscape?
What about a cityscape photo of Belfast? Something like these Featured Articles: Cape Town, Hong Kong or Seattle (this has a few). This photo used to be in the Belfast Article but it's a bit far from the city centre and it's raining! The city doesn't have much of a skyline so maybe a panorama from Cavehill or an aerial or sat photo might be more interesting? Any suggestions? Tsumo@ 11:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to add this, there's no other image that shows such a view of the city. This image gives you more of a feel then the ones of individual sites. MichiganCharms 13:29, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I was on Cavehill on Saturday. Took a panorama, but the results aren't spectacular. It is from too far away, and as Tsumo says the skyline isn't that impressive. I'm thinking a panorama like Image:Laganside development.jpg would be better. The resolution isn't very high on this one though. Stu   ’Bout ye!  13:32, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Belfast county borough / county status
with regards to Belfast's status and recent edits... Under the 1972 local government act traditional counties (contrary to popular belief) weren't abolished. They simply ceased to have any administrative functions. So Belfast is in County Antrim and County Down. County Boroughs were a seperate thing. The background to this is that many county boundaries used geographical features notably rivers. However rivers with their water supply/trade potential etc are also an excellent place for starting cities. Consequently many cities crossed county boundaries. The result was that many cities were granted borough status which made them independent of the relevant county councils for administrative purposes. Although they remained geographically part of those counties.

Belfast's county borough status has nothing to do with parliamentary elections. Constituencies are subdivided into 'county constituencies' (those that contain more than a token rural element) and borough constituencies (those that don't). For example Luton was a County Borough but Luton North was a county constituency and Luton South a borough constituency. Valenciano 11:57, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

GA on hold
This article has been reviewed as part of WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed.
 * Please provide a fair use rationale for Image:Imagine Belfast 2008.JPG
 * I have doubts whether User:Dom0803 owns the copyright to Image:DSCF0195.JPG
 * "The Northern Ireland national football team, currently ranked 27th in the FIFA World Rankings" - to ensure readers the figure is up-to-date, state which month this ranking was given
 * "Celtic League champions and former European Rugby Union champions Ulster play at Ravenhill" - state which year they were Celtic League champions
 * Please provide citations for these statements:
 * "However, the IRA Ceasefire in 1994 and the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 have given investors increased confidence to invest in Belfast."
 * "The Belfast Trust is one of five new NHS trusts which were created on 1 April 2007 by the Department of Health."
 * "Casement Park in West Belfast, home to the Antrim county teams, has a capacity of 32,000"
 * "the Belfast Giants play their home matches at the Odyssey Arena, watched by up to 7,000 fans."
 * "Other significant sportspeople from Belfast include double world snooker champion Alex "Hurricane" Higgins and world champion boxers Wayne McCullough and Rinty Monaghan."

I will check back in no less than seven days. If progress is being made and issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GA/R). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAC. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions. Regards, Epbr123 16:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * All done. Stu   ’Bout ye!  20:15, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

GA Pass
This article has been reviewed as part of WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Epbr123 20:22, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Infobox.
Anyone else agree we should revert to the old infobox? It seems more relevant. Derry Boi 23:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No. Regardless of your obvious political motives (shown by the fact you've reverted a few infoboxes to the Ireland info box) geography as well as politics puts Belfast firmly in the United Kingdom. Anything else is inaccurate. If the mention of the UK bothers you *that* much then why not consider proposing a Northern Ireland info box, but to be fair, don't mention the south in it, ok? --Blowdart 20:43, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * A mix of both would probably be best. This article has had a GA review and a PR in the last week or so, and I'm intending to FAC it soon. A FA article has to be stable, so please can we work contructively on this.
 * There's more information on the UK template, so I would propose using that as the base. The only information currently contained solely in the Irish template that I can see is postal codes and province. This could probably be added to the UK template. However this isn't about the Belfast article individually, so I suggest raising it elsewhere. Stu   ’Bout ye!  08:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


 * And of course the province doesn't really apply; Ulster as a "political" entity doesn't exist any more. Post codes are in the UK template, using the UK terms as opposed to the more generic "Postal Code" reference. --Blowdart 09:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

GAA in Belfast
Am I the only one who thinks that this section is extremely flawed. Especially the line about Belfast not being a 'hotbed for GAA'? When 22 clubs compete full-time in the Antrim championships, and a few like Ballynafeigh compete in the Down championships, I think that statement can be disproved quite easily.

http://antrim.gaa.ie/clubs/?2

Every club on that page is from the Belfast area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.29.227.86 (talk) 14:50, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree with this. I'm not a huge fan of GAA myself and I might be describled as being from the "other side of the fence" but the Gaelic Games are a very large part of the sporting culture of Northern Ireland and Belfast, and the statement is pretty flawed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.71.134.247 (talk) 16:16, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Capital of Northern Ireland??
I know we had the debate on Belfast being capital of Ulster, but I'm wondering is there any cited, referenced, statutory basis other than custom for describing Belfast as Capital City of Northern Ireland. Perhaps someone is aware of some legislation. 4theChildren 12:01, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The local government is based there. That`s the normal definition of capital. Ben W Bell   talk  02:44, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Ben, getting very flexible in your old age. Usually only countries have Capital Cities and if the term is being used for a unit at a lower level some other descriptor is added - for example in America the term State Capital is used. Belfast could be described as a Regional Capital perhaps. Surely the Capital City of Northern Ireland is London.4theChildren 12:31, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Is correct. But the UK has a different tradition to its constituant countries than the USA does.  The Capital of the UK is London, but it would be fairly well accepted that 3 of the 4 constituant countries of the UK have their own capitals.Traditional unionist 12:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

That's the problem. Northern Ireland isn't a country. It was never a country. It didn't have any prior existence outside the UK in the way that England, Scotland and Wales (and indeed Ireland) did. So it's a regional capital but not a Capital City.4theChildren 14:28, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree that Belfast isn't really a capital. However all of the other encyclopedias say that "Belfast is the capital of Northern Ireland" (small "c"), so that is what we should probably use, i.e. leave it as it is. --Sciencewatcher 15:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

The capital of the United Kingdom is London, so Northern Irelands, Scotlands, Englands and Wales's Capital is London. (YellowSnowRecords 08:46, 8 November 2007 (UTC))


 * The lead currently omits any mention of Belfast being, or at least described as, the capital of Northern Ireland. Is this the consensus? - I can't see it being. Indeed there are multiple sources that assert the claim, this being a fairly high quality one. -- Jza84 · (talk) 21:05, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * There's something suspect here; The source being used to claim Belfast is the capital of Ulster, actually states it is the capital of NI. . I suggest a change. -- Jza84 · (talk) 21:12, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * "Seat of government" is accurate; "capital" is problematic. Yours, GeorgeLouis (talk) 04:53, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Just an idea, from United Kingdom -- "The United Kingdom is a unitary state consisting of four countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales." If Northern Ireland is a country, then surely it must have a capital. Shonty08 (talk) 22:27, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

The capital of Scotland is Edinburgh, the capital of Wales is Cardiff and therefore quite clearly Belfast is the capital of NI. --Candymk2 (talk) 19:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Automatic addition of "class=GA"
A bot has added class=GA to the WikiProject banners on this page, as it's listed as a good article. If you see a mistake, please revert, and leave a note on the bot's talk page. Thanks, BOT Giggabot (talk) 04:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Infobox static image
There are loads of great images in this article. Why not have one in the infobox as a static image? This would be like Detroit, Manchester, Hamersley, Western Australia, Oldham, New York, Dorset, Tulsa, Oklahoma, all FAs. -- Jza84 · (talk) 21:12, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Climate chart
One suggestion: Should we move to a standard Template:Climate_chart ?

One comment: we really should not have imperial measures before metric ones in that chart. I can't think of another UK city that has a precedence for imperial measures in its wikipedia page and meteorology in the UK has been completely metricated for many decades. I am changing.

Gerry Lynch (talk) 12:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Another issue over climate, I know we have a cold climate but 18C average max for July/August sounds a bit wrong!? As far as I can remember it's always been hovering around mid 20s. Except in 2007 when it just went Spring --> Rain --> Autumn. 82.7.99.78 (talk) 21:15, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'm sure. One only remembers the good days!  Temperatures above 27C are as rare as hen's teeth and temps in the mid-teens depressingly common, even in July.  Gerry Lynch (talk) 17:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds realistic, I remember last August when I was there it was 14 degrees for most of a week. Valenciano (talk) 18:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, 2007 was terrible, even for us! Flooding everywhere over the UK and Ireland too. I had a look at weatheronline.co.uk where you can see the temps for the last decade and it's usually 23/24 in July and August with high 20s very rare. That 18C average is probably from when records started. No doubt this is climate change!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.7.99.78 (talk) 19:21, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Holy City
Are you sure this is a Holy CityFila934 (talk) 17:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:BestCregaghEstateMural.jpg
Image:BestCregaghEstateMural.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Trivia
I'm not inclined to keep the Trivia section. If we had to mention every historic or sports figures connected with the city, we might just as well quit editing this article. Some would say there is nothing trivial about Belfast. So I am removing the Trivia section. If anybody wants to reinsert the items somewhere else, that would be fine. (Handling_trivia.) Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 16:54, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Action on first Auto Peer Review Suggestion
I've taken action on the first Auto Peer Review Suggestion, above, by shortening the lead and moving the details into the categories of the article. The piece still needs much tightening, particularly inasmuch as there are references to other articles within Wikipedia. This has resulted in some of the sections of this Article being overly lengthy and redundant: They should be pared down to their essentials or provided with subcategories, or both. Yours very sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 18:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

frederick douglass
excuse me but does anybody know why there is a frederick douglass mural erected in belfast? i do not know why i can not find this information.

pax —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.204.240.88 (talk) 00:52, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

The Capital
Would Belfast be the Capital of a United Ireland? I am in no way provicating that i support a United Ireland or otherwise, however i think if i link could be found it may or may not make an interesting addition to the article. 167.1.176.4 (talk) 08:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hypothetically speaking any unified Irish state could have Dublin and Belfast as joint capitals (List of countries with multiple capitals). However this would require Unionists to organise themselves in order to get the best out of a bad situation, and so is highly unlikely. The republican Éire Nua proposes Athlone as the capital of Ireland, with Belfast and Dublin (alongside Cork and Galway) as nothing more than provincial capitals. Back to the point - neither of these opinions really warrant a mention on this article.  Roadnote   ♫

Dublin would probaly remain the capital in a united Irelnad as it is the most populated and is more impotant economically and internationally. The majority of people (aka those living in the south) would not agree to such a proposal and in a united Irelnad Dublin woild have about 1/4 of the population. This would cause uproar among them. Historically Dublin is also the capital of all of Ireland even under British rule —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.43.161.199 (talk) 00:18, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Video Camera
Is there any ordinances that prohibits Belfast community to buy their own Video Camera or Computer with Camera?

Thanks, Imee —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.54.54.122 (talk) 05:02, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

OR/unsourced waffle
I've nuked the following section, since it's virtually unsourced and smacks of WP:OR:


 * Despite that it is perceived there is a high amount of persons of Christian religion living in Northern Ireland, the census statistics in this area are not held to be very reliable (perhaps originally, though also very, very likely as a comment on the late years of the 2000s). They don't compare very favourably with separately researched figures of recent years which show the number of reasonably regular church going persons to Christian churches, even with figures showing persons who do attend church though seldomly. Northern Ireland is thought to have a higher percentage of practising Christians than most other areas of The U.K.


 * It is an arbitrary thing to say, regarding any religion, if someone who does not practise in the religion or very rarely practises and is hardly connected, is a full member of that religion. So some note ought to be made here that it seems some or many persons of the province have claimed to be of a religion because they used to be a pracitising part of that, and in some cases that is likely to have been before persons were of adult age and independence. While 45 percent of Northern Ireland's residents is a large number to attend church at least once a month (as Tearfund's 2007 published statistics suggest), it hardly compares to the suggestion that nearly 100 percent of the population have identified themselves in some way as Christian by the last census.


 * It is not known if even Tearfund's statistics have over-estimated the amount of regularly practising persons of Christian faith in Northern Ireland and this provincial capital city. It may be worth taking a town or area of the province as an example. Leaving the city for an isolated example, one may take Comber in County Down, not far from Strangford Lough, as an example, and the amount of people who could even fit into the number of services given there per week and the size of worhsip buildings. This would put the total number of possible regularly practising persons of Christian faith to roughly 13 to 15 percent or less, considering worship locations were quite full to full. Perhaps this is a good example, perhaps not.

Also, why is there no map showing the religious segregation? This one is public domain: Jpatokal (talk) 11:50, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * sorry, my English isn't the best. Anyhow I understand you. But a "religiously map" for Belfast? Why? Then you had such a map to place for every other one metropole on the planet. Imagine you would place a "religiously map" for New York, Los Angeles, Tokyo, Berlin, London ... that would look odd, or? So, why then for Belfast? You would give a matter (religion) again a place, for what Northern Irishs brought on a lot of power to eliminate religiously classifications piece for piece. Such would been contraproductive "stamps" for a city, which is on the best way to set their name beside these other suggested world cities. Belfast is a modern, lively, absolutely interesting and amazing place in the world. It shouldn't reduced again to "meanings", "opinions", "faith-convictions" or other else. Rather should set the point to work against well known clichés about that wonderful city.

In respect to their history is to set the respect for their future at the same place. We've got 2009 now. New times, new heads, new hearts, new visions. Belfast is living its vision by modernize their infrastructure, their tourism as their economy, currently globally noticed by leading heads and journalism. I see no sense to create a map for strengthen chewed clichés. Future or past? For Belfast should sound the answer just and only: future!--ElkeK (talk) 01:12, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * This is an encyclopedia, not a chamber of commerce site. The goal is to inform readers of the city and let them form their judgments, not to put the city in the best light possible. The religious segregation of Belfast is, for better or worse, one of the more well-known characteristics of the city.  I think that map is worth putting in.  It would be nicer to have a slightly newer one, though. 24.11.127.26 (talk) 01:08, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Although it is fair to say that a large number of the population in East Belfast are Protestant, not all are and the same with all other areas of the city. Therefore any such map would be inaccurate and seen to be promoting religious segregation Candymk2 (talk) 19:16, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * How would it be seen to be promoting religious segregation? It's a map. Funnyhat (talk) 04:49, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Infobox vandalism
Someone vandalised the name of the city in the infobox. I've corrected it in English and Irish, but I'm not sure of the name of the city in Scots. Could someone make sure I have it right? I've found Bilfawst, but I'm not 100% sure if that's correct. Thanks. Dennisc24 (talk) 13:27, 26 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Not personally sure, however if it helps the current version is the same as a Feb. 3rd version, which pre-dates the vandalism.
 * Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 13:30, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Demography
Is it true that Belfast is only 69% white, and Northern Ireland is 89%? That's what the box in the "Demography" section currently claims. Funnyhat (talk) 02:05, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

County Down
What part of Belfast/BT postcodes is in County Down because on the Traditional Unionist Voice, it says Belfast, County Down although googling the postcode shows that most websites believe it to be in County Antrim. I'm not from Belfast so forgive me :D Speedboy Salesman (talk) 20:40, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Population
Some proposed changes to Belfast population statistics:

Population of Belfast city proper: 267,459

Population of Belfast urban area: 579,554

Population of Greater Belfast: 645,500

The first of these 2 statistics can be found in information gathered during the 2001 Census.

The final statistic can be confirmed by checking p.10 of http://www.nisra.gov.uk/archive/demography/population/projections/Sub_NI06_Pop_Projs.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.203.78 (talk) 12:22, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Can you not see what is trying to be achieved? The population of the city proper is 267,459. However no-one can argue that the population of the ACTUAL METROPOLITAN AREA is substantially larger than this. And by metropolitan area I mean the continuous stretch of buildings. Although this does not exist at an official level, it certainly exists in reality. If whoever keeps changing the population figures has some problem with accepting that the Belfast metropolitan area is substantially larger than 400,000, perhaps the could provide some kind of argument to back their point of view rather than taking it upon themselves to change the figures without even attempting to gain a consensus among editors.

If you continue to have a problem with accepting that Belfast is a bigger city than you believe, then I suggest you reconsider you eligibility to make any changes to Wikipedia articles.

Somebody from Derry/Londonderry no doubt. Or a Dub. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.12.240.223 (talk) 16:17, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Infobox photo?
What about this -

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Belfast123.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.12.240.223 (talk) 19:01, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Perfect! Like it and especially as collage. That mediates a more colourful roundabout of Belfast. I have an identic photo of the 1st one what I have expanded and tried to stick these three photos together to a panorama image, where you see the whole hill landscape in the background and Belfast in front of clear blue sky. I dunno if a pano picture would here allowed in an article. Currently it's not available for mine about a defect computer, but in maybe 2, 3 weeks I could upload it here. But yours is also great. / whoever99 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoever99 (talk • contribs) 21:47, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I want to propose that a nice shot of the city in the Infobox could add a nice touch to the article. Hopefully once the skyscrapers currently being built / waiting to be built are completed we'll have something more impressive to boast about, but until then how about some of the following photos?

http://scifigeek.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/roof1.jpg

http://www.christopherfitzsimons.com/DSCF1967.JPG

http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/news/imagegallerylarge/BelfastSkyline07.jpg

http://liconferences.org/BranchesPreview/branches/northernireland/images/BelfastSkyline_000.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3021/3121878219_1a0b33915a.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3327/3252037008_045eb9ff9f.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.12.240.223 (talk) 03:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you're right. The article's infobox could need a nice Belfast shot as well. Of your posted ones I personally like the night shot. But there will come problems up about the copyrights, or? --|~ whoever99 12:55, 10 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoever99 (talk • contribs)

ehhhhh?
why does this article not have a photo at the top? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.12.240.223 (talk) 01:54, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

List of shops
I have removed the list of shops from the article. I don't think a long list like that adds anything to the article - it just breaks up a satisfactory piece of text. The shops listed are mostly chainstore and therefore tell us nothing about the character of Belfast, which is what the article should be about. My apologies if my action seems heavy-handed. Twiceuponatime (talk) 08:31, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Heh, I've just come here to say exactly the same. The list had been put back, apparently, as I've just removed it. I didn't realise it had already been removed. Ay caramba! Almost the very definition of "un-encyclopaedic". I feel dirty just thinking about it ;-) Cheers, TFOWRThis flag once was red 15:12, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Introduction
Umm im just curious but does anyone else have a problem with the introduction to this article???

"Belfast is the secondary city of Ireland and the seat of devolved government and legislative assembly in Northern Ireland. It is the largest urban area in the province of Ulster, and the second largest city on the island of Ireland."

Would it not be better to start out by saying its the seat of power for the devolved executive and legislative assembly, then go on to saying its the second largest city in Ireland. "Belfast is the secondary" also sounds rather degrading not to mention the fact this information is repeated in the same paragraph by sayin "and the second largest city on the island of Ireland". Also should it not point out Belfast is the capital of Northern Ireland, if this term is trying to be avoided, atleast say its considered by some and treated as the capital... etc. Northern Ireland article says Belfast is the capital in the info box.. consistency is needed.

Thoughts please? BritishWatcher (talk) 18:30, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It should start off saying that Belfast is the capital and largest city in Northern Ireland. Mooretwin (talk) 19:29, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed BritishWatcher (talk) 20:28, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Good change thanks BritishWatcher (talk) 21:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Sections to be deleted
The Shopping, Night Clubs and Films Shot in .... sections need to be deleted entirely. The films section could be rewritten as prose, describing the increasing use of H&W as a film set. But the list is not needed. I can see no reason for keeping the Shopping and Night Clubs sections - they read like badly written tourist board brochures, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're actually copyvios. ("Belfast has an astonishing array of tempting treasures"?!)The content is adequately covered in other sections anyway. Any objections? Stu  ’Bout ye!  09:32, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The section on the zoo needs to be looked at as well. Stu   ’Bout ye!  09:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Looks like somebody waxing lyrical about their home town.  I would take all of the "zoo" out bar the first section, and it might need to be edited as well.  Scolaire (talk) 14:01, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Done. I think the page is looking a bit tidier now. Thanks. Stu   ’Bout ye!  17:00, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

File:Belfast Lead image.jpg
User:Stephen 1988 created and added this image to the article today. Kudos for making it, other UK & Ireland cities have these collage images. But I have a few issues with it. Stu  ’Bout ye!  16:18, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) The subjects - there are two images from the city hall, I think only one is needed. The Obel Tower will be a landmark when completed, but it's still a building site at the minute. H&W's cranes should definitely be in there.
 * 2) Quality of images. I'm no photographer, but some of the images seem of poor quality, the Albert Clock especially.
 * 3) Copyright. I'm assuming all of these images are the uploader's own. However as they are a new user, to Commons and Wikipedia, they may be unaware of our copyright issues.

Climate
The figures shown don't seem to match the BBC data which is given as the source. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/city_guides/city.shtml?tt=TT003750 Someone spoofing? --Red King (talk) 20:31, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That is a major problem that I have seen here on WIKI: editors fabricating data (that can be sensible) not in the source given. That said, I plan to switch to Met Office's data since BBC's precision is awful. ---华钢琴49 (TALK) 20:47, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

DMC
I didn't see any mention of the DeLorean Motor Company. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.16.160.178 (talk) 16:27, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 20:05, 2 May 2016 (UTC)