Talk:Believer (Imagine Dragons song)

AIV report
Hi, I just declined an AIV report that looks related to editing on this article and related articles. Seems there is a content dispute related to the "release date". , . A quick google search comes up with this source stating 31-JAN as the release date for this song. Not sure there is a conflict in the sources, but it's worth reviewing. I don't plan on following up on this, happy editing. — xaosflux  Talk 14:40, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The iTunes download archived here (as it is no longer active) claims February 1. Perhaps we should go by earliest release date, but the IP still should not have been disruptive, and the dispute was primarily on Evolve (Imagine Dragons album).  Ss 112  14:56, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Music video description
This seems to have been changed from what I last saw, and I think it's incorrect. Brainynerd (talk) 14:25, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, it isn't. You added incorrect information: if you can't tell the difference between Dolph Lundgren and Dan Reynolds, that's on you.  Ss  112   03:01, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

There's a YouTube video that I think should up the question. I can't seem to post the link here, but this is the exact title: Make the Cut: Behind the Scenes with Imagine Dragons. It's made by Adobe Creative Cloud. In it Dan Reynolds and Dolph Lundgren speak "out of character," as it were, and it should be fairly obvious that the man wearing the black tank top is the professional boxer/actor. Brainynerd (talk) 21:11, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know who Dolph Lundgren is, but he's not wearing the tank top in the final shot. That's his face, dude and his body, not Dan Reynolds'.  Ss  112   03:50, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Ok, here are some carefully thought out reasons why I'm sure that's Dan. I'll do first, second, third and last just like the song. (This is fun, actually - like a game. No hard feelings :)

First: We agree that the man wearing the black tank top is Dolph Lundgren. Ok. That means that for most of the video the shirtless man with the tattoo is Dan Reynolds, but that at the very end they suddenly switch places and the shirtless man becomes Dolph. So what happens to Dan?

Second: The theme of the music video is Dan's younger self fighting with his older self, as he has said in other places. The idea is that his younger self gets the worst of it. And if you write in the description that "it is obvious that Dan is losing," then why do the tables turn and we see Dolph laid out at the end? If the music video shows Dan Reynolds delivering a knockout blow to Dolph Lundgren, I missed it. Quite the contrary; it clearly shows the man in the black tank knocking out the shirtless man, who falls through space and ends up spread-eagled. In fact, the scene is repeated twice. And how do you know that's Dolph's body at the end, if that same tattooed body belonged to Dan for the whole rest of the video? And if it's Dan's tattooed body for most of the video, then you shouldn't say the tattoo is on Dolph without explaining somehow. At what point do the two men switch places?

Third: It carries the storyline better and brings the theme into sharper focus for the man at the end to be Dan. If that's Dolph Lundgren, that would dilute the theme; what would be the point? Dan Reynolds is intense with a flair for drama; I know it's hard to believe that the bloody, barely conscious figure at the end is really him - a painful sight! - but there's no logical reason to think it isn't. I would certainly prefer it was the other guy; I'm on Dan's side.

Last: Quite frankly, I don't even like the music video; I think it's awful. (I'm a sensitive soul.) I'm just doing this because I'm a stickler for accuracy and I like the song. I don't want to make a fool of anyone here - least of all myself - but I think it's obvious who that is at the end. The whole video is leading up to it. Brainynerd (talk) 12:29, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't really think this is the place for theories on what the video means. What matters is what reliable, external sources say about the video. If you can find one saying the video is a metaphor for duality and a duel between younger and older selves, then great, add it to the article. However, at the very least—and excuse my own "speculation" after just saying this isn't really the place for it—there's some digital combination of Reynolds and Lundgren's faces going on there at the end. It's clearly not just Reynolds and appears to be moreso Lundgren's hair, face and body. As it stands, what's on the article is sourced. Anything more is WP:OR.  Ss  112   05:26, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

What, all that for nothing? Sorry to be long-winded. If you Google "NME Imagine Dragons Believer" you'll find a three minute video of Dan Reynolds explaining some of the ideas behind the music video and the song. I don't suppose it matters much anyway. At least we've probably made lots of people interested in watching the music video for themselves! Last I saw, it had almost 500 million views on YouTube. Maybe someone should Tweet Imagine Dragons and ask them about it; I'm sure they'd be happy to respond. I don't do social media myself. Brainynerd (talk) 13:00, 20 March 2018 (UTC)