Talk:Bell AH-1 SuperCobra/Archive 1

Twin-engine Background
I've been looking for background info for this article. Born2flie gave me this: Patuxent River Naval Air Museum AH-1 page on the AH-1 talk. I found Global Security's AH-1J page and a Navy Super Cobra page so far. I'm hoping to find a little on why the USMC wanted the twin-engines and other changes. -Fnlayson 23:22, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * On two engines, basically it's over-water saftey, since Marine CObras spend alot of time on assualt carriers. I'll see what else I can come up with that goes in depth on it. - BillCJ 23:45, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Got it. Thanks! -Fnlayson 01:30, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The over water safety was the biggest reason. The USMC actually operated a number of AH-1Gs loaned from the Army in Vietnam prior to the introduction of the AH-1J because this wasn't an immediate issue. -- Thatguy96 02:50, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

The specs say: Powerplant: 1× Pratt & Whitney Canada T400-CP-400 (PT6T-3 Twin-Pac) turboshaft, 1,800 shp (1,342 kW). WTF? 1×?? It's a two engine chopper, right? Chasrob (talk) 04:30, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6T Twin-Pac consists of two PT6 power turbines driving a common output reduction gearbox. It's considered one engine. - BilCat (talk) 04:52, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

AH-1T+
I can add a little to the article in the subject of the AH-1T+, a little known variant of the Cobra that was planned to be built in Iran while it was still under the rule of the Shah. It was going to complement the Bell Model 214s that Iran had just bought. Both were to have been license manufactured in Iran but the deal fell through after the Revolution, like most arms contracts with America and Britain. Also, I think mention should be made to the Panha-made, reverse-manufactured copy of the Ah-1J International made in Iran just recently. There already is a seperate article for it (and I believe it should stay that way) and all that is really needed is a link, not incorporation into the article. I think it is designated the Panha 209, but I must double check. I will add the necessary portions regarding the AH-1T+ soon if it is popularly supported.SAWGunner89 00:03, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the Panha 2091? The link is listed under Related developement near the bottom of the article.  -Fnlayson 00:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I had hope to get to the T+ later myself. The first AH-1T+ flew in 1984 (Ithink), and was redesignated AH-1W a little later when the USMC ordered it. THere is a lot of history on all the Cobras that needs to be covered, and I hope to get started on adding some of it soon.


 * On the Panha 2091, I believe it is more of an upgrade of existing airframes (Iran bought 202 AH-1JIs) than than something built new, but that kind of info is hard to come by from Iran. - BillCJ 01:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Got it. I added this sentence on the AH-1T+ "An advanced version, known as the AH-1T+ with more powerful T700-GE-700 engines and advanced avionics was proposed to Iran in the late 1970s, but the overthrow of the Shah resulted in the sale being canceled." Hope that covers it, cause that's about all my Cobra book says on it. -Fnlayson 03:01, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Cost?
See Talk:Mil_Mi-28. RebDrummer61alalala! [22:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)]
 * Too hard to copy & paste your question on cost? We'll get to that when we can.  -Fnlayson 01:08, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The cost for AH-1W was added. -Fnlayson 19:16, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

SuperCobra to Cobra comparson
someone to make a comparison of the SuperCobra and the Cobra. 84.250.110.93 22:28, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Who is we? ;)) The article is still in its infancy.  I think it needs more Super Cobra background first. -Fnlayson 22:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Which models did you have in mind? THe AH-1G and AH-1J are very comparable overall, except the the J had higher speeds and some better perfomance due to its twinpac engine. The AH-1S/P/E/F were similar to the AH-1T and early-model Ws in avionics and weapons fit, but again the single engine models were much slower. THe AH-1G/J were of similar lenghths, but the following modles were progessivley longer.


 * So, do we compare the G to the J, W, or Z? Or perhaps the J to the F? Maybe the F (the last Army Model) to the Z (latest USMC model). It really matters what exactly you would like to compare, and what form you want. Do you have in mind a chart or table? We might be able to put one together with all the major models, and list the factors that differ the most. such as length, rotor diameter, engine fit and power output, turret guns, and key performance factors (range, payload, speed). Tables aren't something I can do, and I'm not going to volunteer anyone else to do it, but we can discuss it, and see what we come up with. How's that? - BillCJ 22:45, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * A text description would be a good start. I don't know the details, but based on what you're written above I can give it a try.  "The first twin engine Cobra model, the AH-1J was similar in size to the previous Cobra model.  The J model featured more engine power.. etc.  Later twin engine models were progressively larger with improved avionics and weapons. .."  That could be a beginning to a Design section, I think.  What about this? -Fnlayson 01:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Any interest in a spec table like on airlines? It would take up less vertical space and be easier to compare data and see changes in the models. I'm volunteering to set-up table and get it started. -Fnlayson 16:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah forget it. That probably won't work with all the armament info. -Fnlayson 03:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Operators - Turkey
I think there's little a mistake in page that claims Turkish Air Force operates Super Cobras. I am living in Turkey, and as i know it is Turkish Army that operates Cobras&Super Cobras, not the Air Force. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SirTwilight (talk • contribs).

Development
I'm working on the rewriting the Development section. Tried to summarize the early Cobra work and wrote some on the W model. I copied info from the Vectorsite (public domain) on the J model, which could probably be reworked/reworded. Anyway take a look at it and help where you can. Thanks! -Fnlayson 04:27, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I added a paragraph on the T variant and T+ proposed to Iran. Info on the Z variant needs to be done.  Also, some clarifying which variants are new builds and which are upgrades/rebuilds of earlier models.  I'm not sure on this myself. -Fnlayson 20:21, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks good. Of the top of my head, all the Js were new-builds, and I beleive the Ts were also. THere were only about 44 (I think) Ts,and most were upgraded to W; the rest of the 180-somthing total Ws were new. The Zs were supposed to be rebuilds of Ws, but that might have been changed (or might not be decided yet); The UH-1Ys were to be rebuilds also, but are now new (other than the first batch, basically pre-production. - BillCJ 21:00, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * OK. That's pretty much what I thought.  I had assumed the Z was a totally new build at first.  The single engine variants are probably more complicated with the various upgrades. -Fnlayson 22:30, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Added a little on developing the Z. There's still a lot that can be added. My short Cobra book has a couple pages on it just describing the upgrades and changes (hardware and avionic systems). -Fnlayson 06:24, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the Z should get a page to its-self? like the UH-1Y Venom ANigg (talk) 07:49, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure the UH-1Y should be separated, but that's already been done. Let's see how full we can make your AH-1Z sandbox article. -Fnlayson (talk) 17:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree that the Z should get a page to itself. Enough is changing that the detail should be separated out from this page.  tom (talk) 19:10, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

WPMilHist Assess
Demoted to "Start", as more coverage is needed in the Operational history section. Ejosse1 (talk) 15:54, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * FYI: The Operational history section covers all major action. It is just not that detailed. -Fnlayson (talk) 15:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

New images available
I uploaded some images to Commons today from defenseimagery.mil. I'll list them here temporarily in a gallery. --Born2flie (talk) 15:52, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Nice! Note that these have the new-style exhaust fairings on the engines, horizontal instead of slanted vertical. - BilCat (talk) 17:56, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Separate articles for "Cobra" and "Super Cobra"
These really arent needed and called for, these are the SAME AIRCRAFT, just versions for it, like there isnt separate articles for lets say different versions of FW 190 or Bf 109 (compare B/E to G/K for instance, and all the various sub-variants..) of which early and late versions are at least as different as early "cobra" compared to late model "super cobra". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.156.206.20 (talk • contribs)


 * We have separate articles when specific variants are significant and notable. For example, the Lockheed Martin KC-130 and Lockheed Martin C-130J Super Hercules articles were split off due to their notability and to reduce length in the main Lockheed C-130 Hercules article. Ng.j (talk) 17:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC)