Talk:Bellevue Hospital/Archive 1

For
For one thing, it's worth mentioning this is the first municiple hospital established in US, if I'm not mistaken. AdamDiCarlo 07:40, 13 October 2005 (UTC) one the best hospital in new york

Several of the "Milestones at Bellevue" don't actually seem to have much to do with Bellevue (ie: Jonas Salk gets his MD). Should we look into them to see if they're relevant, and if not, delete them from the list? --guest, 04:30, 19 February 2007 (EST)

It would be nice to put the location of the hospital in the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.142.45.10 (talk) 15:25, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

"Bellevue" as a place where crazy people get locked up
I've heard "Bellevue" used as a synonym for "lunatic asylum" -- is that a reference to Bellevue Hospital Center, or does that refer to some other place? Thank you. CSWarren 17:28, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I think "Bellevue, The Lunatic Asylum" is more of a folkloric place that has little to do with the actual hospital. As far as I know, this is the right Bellevue, but it has never actually been the type of establishment Bethlem Royal Hospital (a.k.a. Bedlam) was. The US is the only major nation where such hospitals were established for treatment, not punishment of mentally ill patients, and Bellevue has rather been a pioneer in working with mental illness than a cruel and dreadful place where crazy people got locked up. At least that's what my doctor told me to write...Rankiri (talk) 22:53, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Side Note: "Bellevue was known to be the first though most notorious insane asylum and metropolitan hospital that ever existed. From experimental operations, treatments, misdiagnoses, and malpractices to unsanitary and horrific conditions. Beginning with its facility from the 1600's, to this day has been improperly developed to accommodate its lack of architecture causing inefficiency. Currently HHC took over management and is trying to build an east and west tower on the side of the big mess... Most prescriptions, injections, and chemical lobotomies for diagnosis of theoretical diseases such as ADD, Bipolar or Schizophrenia also adds salt to the wound as they cannot scientifically test for this nor can they differentiate it from cultural differences..." from a doctor at Bellevue. You can also read more about this topic from the book Bellevue at Barnes and Noble.

Bellevue Hospital Center being the first metropolitan hospital in America has been a pioneer in the health care field. Having no other institution like it before, it had to model itself after itself. At its best it saves a few lives, and at its worst it loses some. Although it is controversial in its diagnostic and treatment methods.


 * I don't know where that side note comes from, but I believe the information it gives may be false. The construction of a “Publick Workhouse and House of Correction” was begun in 1735 and the building of what is now known as the Bellevue hospital was ready early in 1736. 1600's? It's either a fiction book, an uneducated doctor's quote, or a reference to another Bellevue and not the Bellevue hospital center in New York. Rankiri (talk) 20:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

18 May, 2009 I'm currently living in Bellevue and noticed that this article makes absolutely no mention of the fact that the only original structure still standing from Bellevue is now used as a homeless shelter. The medical buildings now in use are located on the site of the torn down hospital. The only building still standing from the original Bellevue hospital is located on 1st Avenue between 29th and 30th street. This is also the same structure that was used as an asylum. It's dirty and run down and the city threatens to close it every year, but right now it's my home. And it does indeed have a dark history. There were many medical experiments performed on the asylum patients who were forced to stay within it's walls. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.155.110.234 (talk) 19:49, 18 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Bellevue's psych ward is a place where many New Yorkers with mental problems and/or substance abuse problems ended up during the 20th century. It is in many fiction books, movies and non-fiction books and newspapers describing such experiences.  Hardly a "folkloric" place if you look at the sources.  Unfortunately, whoever wrote this article, perhaps influenced by all the "rebranding" that seems to be going on, has chosen to ignore this and make it sound like just any other hospital. When you read some book or see some movie set in the 1930s through the 1970s and somebody is getting sent off to Bellevue then the meaning is quite clear...they are generally not getting sent there for a broken leg if you know what I mean. TheBlinkster (talk) 15:58, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Bellevue Hospital was the first U.S. hospital to have a psych ward and was, therefore, where psychiatric cases were sent in New York City (only Manhattan, The Bronx, and Staten Island prior to 1898). Of course, it was simultaneously a major hospital and treated all manner of other cases. But the name Bellevue became synonymous with psych cases.74.108.79.33 (talk) 01:09, 21 January 2018 (UTC)EFalik.

Can you say advertising?

 * This is not an article, this is blatant advertising. No history, no balanced view of things. It's known for its psychiatric ward alright, but not in a good way. Bellevue years ago had one of the most notorious psych wards in this city. That notwithstanding, the article is just shameless self-promotion of its purported outstanding features and historical achievements. I'm flagging it and with good reason.

-Alan 24.184.184.177 (talk) 00:08, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I chose to flag it as Spam and used the db-spam template given the extent of the advertising, though I don't think speedy deletion will be needed since it can't be that hard to rewrite this over time. And as a side note, I dated the flag from September 2008 since in UTC it is September, even if it's still August 31 here.

-Alan 00:23, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Evidently, someone doesn't seem to agree and removed the flag. And they said nothing on here. Don't remove the flag until the rewrite is done.

00:33, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Dates, please. "# Bellevue opened a new ambulatory care building dedicated to serving over 300,000 outpatients a year." When? "# Bellevue recently opened burn units for pediatric (children) and adult burn patients." When?

What's this? "The leader of The Westies One Lung Curran visited the tuberculosis ward every week for a regular check up from the 1920s to 1950's." Curran isn't mentioned on the Westies page. Why is it on this page? c.pergiel (71.117.211.59 (talk) 17:26, 13 December 2009 (UTC))

List of notable deaths
This subject has been discussed, and a consensus was reached that we don't do such lists. See Talk:Ottendorfer Public Library and Stuyvesant Polyclinic Hospital. BMK (talk) 23:35, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I have started an RfC on this subject here. BMK (talk) 05:33, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Psych ward history
"Bellevue" in both fiction (literature) and non-fiction sources from the 20th century was widely known as a place where New Yorkers with mental health issues (including substance abuse) got committed. From reading this article, however, one would not have a clue about that, despite literally dozens of sources out there. The psychiatric wards are barely mentioned. I really think somebody needs to rewrite this article substantially because it is not addressing the public perception of Bellevue as shown by the myriad 20th century sources. TheBlinkster (talk) 15:53, 16 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree. The psych ward should be mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.121.6.113 (talk) 04:26, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

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Requested move 14 November 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. (non-admin closure) ʍaɦʋɛօtʍ (talk) 09:00, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

NYC Health + Hospitals/Bellevue → Bellevue Hospital – Clear WP:COMMONNAME case. The current unweildly title may be the WP:OFFICIALNAME, but it's not used outside the city department, making it exactly the sort of thing COMMONNAME is meant to cover (not to mention that it probably violates a few guidelines because of its typography). Some recently dated examples of the common name in use by reliable sources:
 * The New York Times
 * New York Daily News
 * NBC
 * ABC
 * New York University

And so on. Clear case where the current title is just branding, and not widely used. oknazevad (talk) 16:26, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Station1 (talk) 08:36, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Support. Qzd (talk) 18:45, 19 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Oldest?
A reader wrote to Wikimedia observing a potential problem in three articles ticket:2018071610001155

If you look at Bellevue Hospital, you will see:

Bellevue Hospital, founded on March 31, 1736, is the oldest public hospital in the United States.

If you look at Pennsylvania Hospital, you will see:

Founded on May 11, 1751, by Benjamin Franklin and Dr. Thomas Bond, Pennsylvania Hospital is the earliest established public hospital in the United States.

If you look at List of the oldest hospitals in the United States, and glance down at John H. Stroger Jr. Hospital of Cook County you will see:

Nation's oldest public hospital 

The first and third seem to be identically worded. The second uses "earliest", rather than "oldest", but I have not grasped how that would make a difference.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  01:22, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * All that matters is which one has the earliest verified date. The other two are just plain wrong and the text should be removed from whichever articles fail that verification. Presuming the date here and for Pennsylvania are both correct, Bellevue appears to be the oldest. That said, Bellevue more evolved into a hospital, whereas Pennsylvania was founded specifically as one, so there may be something to that. Stroger's claim is dubious as both Pennsylvania and Bellevue pre-date, well, Chicago. oknazevad (talk) 03:56, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The wording for Pennsylvania Hospital comes from the NRHP nomination form, which makes this distinction: it is "today the earliest established public hospital in the United States. Although Philadelphia General Hospital (1732) and Bellevue Hospital in New York (1736) are older, the Philadelphia General was founded as an almshouse, and Bellevue as a workhouse." Station1 (talk) 05:14, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hm, considering this article gives the history of Bellevue originating as an almshouse, and makes no mention of a workhouse, so that is questionable. (On a side note, we have articles for almshouse, workhouse, and poorhouse, none of which make clear the distinctions between the three, and which actually indicate that the latter two are possibly synonyms, meaning the articles are redundant, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to say.) There's also the fact that Pennsylvania Hospital is a private entity; it may be opened to the public, and it may be non-profit, but it is not publicly owned. oknazevad (talk) 10:50, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for looking into this.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  14:15, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I added a footnote to the Pennsylvania Hospital article. Station1 (talk) 18:13, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

New Amsterdam
I'm unsure if this should be mentioned but I believe there should be a section mentioning that the TV show New Amsterdam is filmed here. There also appears to be other expansions that could be included such as its' direct link with NYU Langone as well as other mentions regarding it's very well known psychiatric program. An example note would be that there happens to be a temp. public school on campus for students with mental health issues known as P35 as can be seen here --KoRoBeNiKi Medical Coder, chess specialist, retired SSBWiki rollback, hi? 07:12, 3 November 2019 (UTC)