Talk:Ben-Hur

"real" dab page
I'm thinking of reorganizing the various Ben-Hur pages. see Talk:Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ. (John User:Jwy talk) 05:51, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Requested move 15 October 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved - there is no primary topic. Fuortu (talk) 11:41, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

– Simple title for the novel per WP:SUBTITLES. The novel is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. 2A02:C7D:564B:D300:7DD7:ADCD:3580:5AF7 (talk) 10:51, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Ben-Hur → Ben-Hur (disambiguation)
 * Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ → Ben-Hur
 * Oppose- Nominator gives no evidence to suggest that the novel is the primary topic. |Ben-Hur_(1959_film)|Ben-Hur_(2016_film)|Ben-Hur:_A_Tale_of_the_Christ_(1925_film)|Ben_Hur,_Virginia|Ben_Hur_(1907_film)|Ben-Hur_(play)|Ben_Hur_(2003_film)|Ben_Hur_(miniseries) page view statistics do not support this assertion, and while the novel is the originator of all of the adaptations, combined they far outstrip it in notability. No single topic among these seems to stand out as the obvious PT, and in that case we keep it at the Dab page, per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.  InsertCleverPhraseHere  11:40, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Support move per WP:SUBTITLES. Lone Survivor (book) is not at Lone Survivor: The Eyewitness Account of Operation Redwing and the Lost Heroes of SEAL Team 10. 31.53.108.231 (talk) 16:08, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * WP:SUBTITLES doesn't really apply in this way, because the book is not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for 'Ben-Hur'. The issue has to do with the many adaptations of the novel together (and in at least two instances surpassing) the notability of the novel, at least when considering page views (see above). Do a google search for 'ben-hur', the novel doesn't appear as a search result, I scrolled through several pages of results for various film and play adaptations with no mention of the book. google trends shows that the overwhelming majority of searches are for film related searches. Note that the only way that WP:SUBTITLES could apply in this case is to indicate a move to Ben-Hur (book) or Ben-Hur (novel) with a disambiguator. However this would only be the case if you consider the present name to be overly long, as WP:SUBTITLES says that the subtitle can be used as a natural disambiguator if it is 'short'. The example you bring up for Lone Survivor (book) demonstrates this point exactly. I could be convinced that Ben-Hur (book) is a better location for the article and would support such a move.  InsertCleverPhraseHere  22:14, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Are nom and IP supporter the same editor? In ictu oculi (talk) 07:15, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Could be. But I'll give the benefit of the doubt that they are someone else and just read WP:SUBTITLES that the nom linked and didn't realise that it only applies if the title article isn't already taken by a dab or other primary topic. -- Actually, I'm inclined to think that they probably are. Both IPs have recently edited Lionsgate related articles, and both are among several IPs that have been recently editing Template:Film Studio.  InsertCleverPhraseHere  07:30, 16 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Oppose this arbitrary primarytopic grab. Dicklyon (talk) 02:33, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose as in most cases there is no primary topic. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:13, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose, as the nominator has shown no evidence that the novel is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and the fact that it isn't. Zarcadia (talk) 18:50, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I can't see how the novel is more primary than the 1959 film, in addition to several other films. kennethaw88 • talk 03:50, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose. No primary topic. The Charlton Heston film is probably the best-known. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:24, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Very strong support move per WP:CONCISE. The Ben-Hur book IS the primary topic. The films are not the primary topic. 2A02:C7D:564B:D300:4F3:549F:8DAD:27E (talk) 10:30, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Correct, the films are not the primary topic. The data up above shows quite clearly that there is no primary topic, which is exactly why Ben-Hur redirects to a dab page.  InsertCleverPhraseHere  10:36, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, there is strong evidence that this user is a sock puppet of the IP that supported this move above, as well as the OP here. They have been going around voting strong support on each other's move requests with little justification. Check their edit histories, pretty obvious. See Talk:Gaumont_Film_Company and Talk:Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ (1925 film). I've struck their comments as a result.  InsertCleverPhraseHere  11:35, 22 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.