Talk:Ben 10 (2005 TV series)/Archive 3

Alien Force
OK, with the Alien Force show about to start, this list of characters becomes important again. We are going to get a whole new range of characters, obviously, and they're going to make this page even longer. The first question I think we need an answer to is do we keep everything together, or separate Alien Force and keep them separate (with the exception of those characters that overlap, that could be in both). We've had some discussion on other talk pages (the Alien Force for example) and it was generally agreed to keep them all together. However, after reviewing the discussion here, I'm not so sure that that is the best way ahead now. Views? Ged UK (talk) 11:57, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, what do other television series pages do when a spin-off appears? We can use them as a guide as to what to do. —T-borg (T | C) 12:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The dragonball articles seem to be similar, List of Dragon Ball characters has a list of pages separated into categories, Sayians, Humans, ET's (Characters, Villains, Omnitrix). Those pages transcend the individual series and culminate them all into single articles. Rau's talk 20:33, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, I just hope the new series doesn't go with the same villain-of-the-week format, because then we'll really have a clutter problem on those pages, won't we. :) —T-borg (T | C) 21:44, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, part of keeping them all on one page would be to weed out those one-time appearances. Rau's Speak Page 22:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

New abilities
After looking at a few episodes, I think Ben now has the ability to disengage his alien forms at will, and preform multiple short transformations. Discuss? Chaoshi (talk) 17:20, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I was thinking that too, it never seems to time out on him. But it's OR without some kinda statement, like "Grandpa: 'Ben, when did you learn to stop being a freak at will?'" Something like that. Rau's Speak Page 17:27, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Huh? Chaoshi (talk) 17:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The characters need to say it in the show, or the writers in an interview (or something similar). We can't just make assumptions that he has that ability. Rau's Speak Page 18:06, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Couldn't the episiode with the dragon be proof, because when he was talking to the dragon after spider monkey replaced his languge transmiter, or what ever its called, Ben said to the dragon that he thoght he was monster, and the dragon replied "well you look like a monkey", or something like that, and ben says "oh i don't always look like this (ben changes back) see" this could be proof or it could be really good timeing for ben that he changed back- RREDD13 (talk) 15:01, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it could, but really that's just original research. Ged (talk) 15:11, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Ben does also say that he can preform multiple transformations at the end of "Pier Pressure", At the beginning of "The Gauntlet" he can read how long it takes for the Omnitrix to recharge, and in the middle of "Be-knighted", he quickly transforms into Humungosaur shortly after changing back from Chromastone. That should prove something... Chaoshi (talk) 15:45, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It does prove something. The omnitrix got an upgrade. Now zip zam zoom and add it! No seriously, it doesn't prove anything not already known. Rau's Speak Page 21:18, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It's a new thing, it's that Ben can change back at will two ways:He can do it by thought or something, and he can twist the Omnitrix symbol and slam it down while he is alien. I still don't know how he can do that now, but he couldn't in the old show. Bakutrix (talk) 11:53, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, I thought he had unlocked the master control when I saw the episode "Darkstar Rising." Then after I saw "Good Copy, Bad Copy" I realized he must have figured out how to operate the omnitrix symbol like some people did to him in the first series. 74.137.252.82 (talk) 22:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Ben 10 Alien Force: Bounty Hunters
There's a new online game coming out that seems like it may possibly be a tie-in. Here, does it seem like it is worthy of it's own page? Chaoshi (talk) 04:53, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Leaning towards no. Online games generally don't fit the bill unless they are marketed significantly. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 07:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it's just not going to be notable enough, certainly at the start. It can have a mention, but not an article I think. Ged UK (talk) 10:10, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it should have it's own page. Who agrees? Anyone? Anyone? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.31.63.52 (talk) 18:34, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No. Not notable enough. *SIGN* 19:00, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay! Sounds good! I'll make the page! It should be done in a few hours! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.31.63.52 (talk) 21:44, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It'll just get redirected. By me probably.(Hopefully) *SIGN* 21:54, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Cancelled?
Was this show cancelled? Did they choose to end it on their own terms? There needs to be more information about the background of the show too, the production, the casting, writing, all the behind the camera stuff. A section about the development would be important to add too. Tydamann (talk) 21:09, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * We don't know it was cancelled, and if you can find any sources please add stuff! --Ged UK (talk) 21:21, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It actually did end on their own terms, because the show was only limited to 52 episodes, like Batman Beyond. 97.96.75.50 (talk) 16:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)Bakutrix

Add?
Should the Ben10/Ben10 Alien Force comics be added? Also should Ben10 now be considered an alien form? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BLACKMYSTECHRANGER (talk • contribs) 12:58, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

That does bring up a point? wouldn't Ben himself be considered an alien to other aliens?Onepiece226 (talk) 13:48, 10 November 2008 (UTC)OnePiece226
 * Probably. It uses DNA from lifeforms that it's touched. Obviously it has Ben's DNA.--Marhawkman (talk) 13:52, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * We've had no evidence that it has ever absorbed human DNA. This is getting way to speculative for here. --Ged UK (talk) 19:36, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

There's no speculation here? it's actually a very smart question? Is Ben considered an Alien to other Aliens? And it dosen't always just get the DNA from touching? plenty of times he's turned into something he's never even seen.Onepiece226 (talk) 19:42, 10 November 2008 (UTC)OnePiece226


 * 'Obviously it has Ben's DNA.' No evidence of that. Speculation. --Ged UK (talk) 23:04, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Acutally, if I'm not mistaken, it was said in the "Good Copy, Bad Copy" episode. *SIGN* 23:58, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Said by who? ----Ged UK (talk) 21:30, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Said by the galvan named "El Beedo" or something like that who made a replica of the omnitrix. 74.137.252.82 (talk) 23:02, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Although the question can only really be answered either in an episode or by the creators themselves, it seems logical that the omnitrix must have ben's DNA to enable the function of combining them. Dunc from Telford —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.64.166 (talk) 17:38, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Eon
Should Eon be considered one of Ben's aliens? He is obviously in the omnitrix as was witnessed in "Race Against Time" when Eon transformed Ben into himself. I think he is the only alien that Ben hasn't used in the series. Is this correct? 74.137.252.82 (talk) 23:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC) Yeah.Omnigan (talk) 17:44, 4 December 2008 (UTC)Omnigan

Omnitrix
This section talks about the Omnitrix as it appears in both Ben 10 and it's sequel, Ben 10: Alien Force. Wouldn't be more appropriate to put the details of the Omnitrix of the former series on it's respective page? Also, the section needs to be cut down. I suggest using quotes as references in order to cut down on lengthy explanations. Chaoshi (talk) 06:37, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Also how many aliens are actually in both versions of the Omnitrix? Are there any opposites to Eon? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BLACKMYSTECHRANGER (talk • contribs) 21:27, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That...doesn't really apply here...Chaoshi (talk) 01:54, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

In War of the Worlds Azmuth said that the Omnitrix contained a sample of DNA from every sentient alien race in the Milky Way he did not specificly say the entire universe. The Omnitrix section should leave out the part of it containing every species in the universe unless it is specificly said in a later episode or by the writers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.97.47 (talk) 01:52, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

What I mean is what you learn later in the sequel should be put into the Alien force Page, and the old stuff should remain here Chaoshi (talk) 14:33, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

DIAL H FOR HERO, and other inspirations
I was reading an old comic blog and I found this picture and it really reminded me a lot of Ben10, is this a common concept in fiction? Could the Ben10 creators possibly have been inspired? Tyciol (talk) 04:02, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Ben 10, was a supposed X-Men pitch. I recently read an article about this, but can't find it at the moment. Apparently, the creators weren't aware of Dial H For Hero, as it tends go through periods of extreme obscurity.Gohmifune (talk)
 * Well, if the concept was indeed an X-Men proposal, it's no wonder Marvel passed, as the main idea for Ben 10 is a carbon copy of "Dial H For Hero". The plotlines added for the new character are certainly different, but the idea of a boy who discovers a mysterious dial that transforms the lad into a myriad array of superheros as not being "Man of Action"'s inspiration is too far fetched for me. It's possible that the creators have never mentioned Dial H in interviews, so it may not be officially verifiable, but I still say this tidbit should be included in article.  It's like saying that The Transformers or Voltron were independently created with no awareness of Raideen (Raideen,or Raydeen is certainly obscure today, and I'm sure is unknown by most Transformers fans from both 20 years ago and currently...but that doesn't mean the Trans creators weren't aware. 71.125.238.223 (talk) 14:38, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, the null void is clearly this tale's version of The Phantom Zone (from DC's Superman mythos), and Marvel's Negative Zone.

Well here's some older concept art for Ben 10 off a guy who worked on X-Men Evolutions. http://www.stevenegordon.com/presentation_art/ben_10/ben_10_01.html It looks even more of a rip off of Dial H For Hero. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.58.41.48 (talk) 23:25, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Longer???
Can anybody upload more pictures about this show?...or at least make it longer. This is the most popular Cartoon Network show ever and there are no pictures about the Tennysons. If the Simpsons' fans can do it, so can we! Fil Student (talk) 03:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Images are subject to copyright infringement. Images are used to illustrate and improve the content of the articles. Adding images for the sake of adding them is not right. This has nothing to do with "fans" standing by their favourite shows. Please be objective. 201.127.204.84 (talk) 00:10, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Should the facts that are learned in popups during episodes be put in the talk section! —Preceding unsigned comment added by BLACKMYSTECHRANGER (talk • contribs) 01:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What is the relevance of said popups? Material should be added as long as it improves the article, and random trivia sections are not needed. 201.127.204.84 (talk) 00:10, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Omnitrix Page
Okay, whose idea was it to snatch text from the Ben 10 wiki, and put it on a new page? The page is extremely problematic! If your going to do something like this, use the talk page FIRST!!!Chaoshi (talk) 18:15, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Anti-Joseph 10 Bot
Okay, this Joseph Koffi guy is really starting to get under my skin!

He is now using an alternate computer to vandalize the Ben 10 pages.

If anyone knows how to program one, could we have a bot that automatically deletes and reverts edits that have to do with anything that matches his vandalism style?

It wouldn't be only for the Ben 10 pages. It could help the Heroes and Smallville pages. Since he frequently attacks them too.

So, can anyone do it, or is this to much to ask? Chaoshi (talk) 22:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Bots have to be approved, and such a specific bot won't be approved. Revert as spotted, that's all there is to do. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 22:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Dang, knew it couldn't be that easy...

So much for laziness Chaoshi (talk) 00:30, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Literally
"to allow the people of the universe a way to literally "walk in someone else's shoes". " That's a bad use of literally. It allows them to literally become that species, but not LITERALLY walk in someone else's shoes. He figuratively walks in someone else's shoes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelzeng7 (talk • contribs) 21:12, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Dail H for Hero
Shouldn't be mentioned the show is similar to the comic Dial H for Hero? -Golem866 (talk) 12:05, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * See here Cannonbolt2 (talk) 07:48, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

this article is terrible!
I've come to this article to find out what the hell this 'ben 10' thing all the 5 year old kids seem to be into, and it appears that one of them might have actually written the article. None of it makes any sense. There must be someone out there willing to clean it up? Cya Coolug (talk) 19:44, 21 April 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) I actually think the article looks alright and is a decent (not perfect, but decent) encyclopaedic article about the show. If you need to know every ins and out of the show like I do, please feel free to watch the episodes in your free time. Don't let the tag "children's show" put you off, i'm 22! 2) If you then feel there is content to be added to this article, feel free ;) 3) The show is aimed at boys aged 6-12, with plenty of stuff for younger kids, girls and even us adult viewers. If the five year olds around where you live feel they should also like Ben 10, I say good on them! :) Thank you Cannonbolt2 (talk) 20:13, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The Ben 10 Protector of Earth section is really terrible. It should be removed or combined with a different section. It is just unnecessary. Half of it isn't even on topic!--Michaelzeng7 (talk) 21:10, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

australia
ben 10 was made by a group of aussies and developed by other ppl, that should be worked in their —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gargabook (talk • contribs) 23:37, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Hey
I just add the pictures of the Alien series and the Omnitrix, to improve the article, PLEASE DO NOT DELETE.--OliverDF (talk) 14:28, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Dwayne McDuffie Says
This article is about Ben 10 the first series in the franchise, and not its sequels. Dwayne McDuffie only became part of the franchise after this series was over and Alien Force was in development. So, in turn any of his information on the characters or plots are only relevant in Alien Force and Ultimate Alien's pages. Example a lot of Alien Force and Ultimate Alien have plot points that were retcon from this series. One of the biggest examples is Kevin Levin; in this series he is a mutant but Mcduffie later altered the story in his series Alien Force to have him half alien. That is exclusive to Alien Force and Ultimate Alien, so it doesn't belong here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.45.13.200 (talk) 19:18, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

age issue here
"The series is for young children from the ages 1 to 4". Seriously though? Is this really intended for an audience of one-year-olds? I don't feel qualified to edit myself, but this seems completely wrong, and Michaelzeng7 says it's aimed at boys aged 6-12!

Biguana 09:30 17/09/2012 UTC —Preceding undated comment added 08:29, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2015
86.160.229.244 (talk) 18:41, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

❌ No request specified. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:44, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Omnimatrix?
Where did the name Omnimatrix come from? The only citation I see for it is a DeviantArt link (definitely not reliable) and it's breaking a lot of interwiki links to the section "Omnitrix (Omnimatrix)". (Not that it should be removed just because of that; they're pointing all over the place anyway.) I just have no idea if it's mentioned in the series at all, and it doesn't seem supported by any sources or explained in the article. —2macia22 (talk) 20:24, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): KDH26326HD, Curtiswarren49x, Eshire1.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 15:34, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

minor corrections
I just made a few minor corrections to grammatical issues and punctuation in the first quarter of the article. There are many others to be made in the rest of the article if anyone wants to fix them all. Rmoor57 (talk) 20:34, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Learn what a "franchise" is
The word "franchise" does not mean "brand". Jesus people. If you're going to edit Wikipedia, learn what words mean. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.234.181.59 (talk) 16:09, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

new article
Shouldn't we just make a new article about the omnitrix and ultimatrix?--Mike28968 (talk) 22:27, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello?Mike28968 (talk)
 * There is already an article on all of its aliens and forms, so maybe consider making this article to be about the Omnitrix and Ultimatrix itself that will include this content but then keep all the existing content of its aliens, so maybe perhaps rename the article. Giggett (talk) 18:42, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Ben 10: Omniverse
The redirect , which currently points here, is being discussed at Redirects for discussion/Log/2011 December 5. One of the suggested comments is that we should have an article or section about it. Your comments would be most welcome at the linked discussion. Thryduulf (talk)

Ultimatrix section
The end of that section reads:
 * "Azmuth's exact plans for the Ultimatrix are currently unknown until know in the series finale the ultimatrix falls off Ben's wrist and disintegrates. It is replaced by the one true Omnitrix."

I know the author was trying to say something, I just haven't the slightest clue what. I'm only up to episode 2x21 of Ultimate Alien. Maybe I'll know what that's supposed to mean once I finish the series. It would better, though, if someone could get it fixed before then. --Kitsunegami (talk) 07:36, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Acclaimed?
This word is in the first sentence, yet I'm not sure it's really backed up by the article. There's plenty of evidence that the franchise is highly successful, but that's not the same thing. I don't know enough about Ben 10 to have a firm opinion on whether "acclaimed" is fair, but some evidence of positive reception, awards, etc would certainly help. Loganberry (Talk) 20:18, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Grammar is awful
I've tried reading this page and the grammar is so bad that some paragraphs are extremely difficult to understand. Can someone who knows about the show and is also proficient at writing take another swing at it? Can we at least get a banner indicating that it needs work?

I've added the {copy edit} tag to the article.
I've added the {copy edit} tag to the article.

Much of this article looks like it was written by people whose first language was not English. The article needs general copy editing to make the overall writing style more professional.

-- 186.221.135.185 (talk) 14:19, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Ben 10 in Other Media
I don't think some of the information in this article has a place in wikipedia, especially in this section. In the South Park episode there was a quick little reference to Ben 10, but I don't think that here is the place for it, cause it was only like 5 seconds long, wasn't about the show itself and South Park really isn't that big of a deal for us to write about it in the article about ben 10. The same with MAD and Robot chicken - I don't think that thoes 2 minutes that feature something related to Ben is worth writing about in Wikipedia. Maybe Wikia, but not Wikipedia. If you ask me, we should delate thease 3 sections, or at least combine them. --Caos2008lv] ([[User talk:Caos2008lv|talk) 16:33, 23 February 2013 (UTC) also thanks and welcome to deeez nutz

Remove Copy Edit Tag?
I have read the entire page and fixed grammer mistakes I noticed. However, I'm not sure if I have fixed enough to remove the copy edit tag. Should the copy edit tag be removed? Reg McLean (talk) 19:35, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 July 2015
Would changing "that allows him or anyone who wears it to turn into alien creatures." to " that allows the wearer to transform into alien creatures." sound better?

False Indigo (talk) 06:15, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Cannolis (talk) 08:42, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Minor Changes
Fixed a spelling and punctuation error in the section titled original series. KDH26326HD (talk) 15:07, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Ben 10
Edited descriptions of the characters and some of the episode content that was left out — Preceding unsigned comment added by Curtiswarren49x (talk • contribs) 03:02, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Ben 10 is the greatest Kholisilehff (talk) 20:03, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Copy Edit
Did some minor language and grammatical changes. 2620:105:B00C:8175:6D14:1F89:7D21:E111 (talk) 17:45, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Ben 10
Made a few grammatical changes and fixed some of the episode descriptions that were off — Preceding unsigned comment added by Curtiswarren49x (talk • contribs) 19:24, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

A better Section title than "Running Gags"
I think a better title could be found, as the information is not just comedy, but I can't think of one myself. Also the part on Kevin's car in this section is a repeat from the vehicles section. Should that be removed?JoshBM16 (talk) 13:30, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

I think it's time we get semi-protection on this article
There's been a lot of vandalism from different sources on this article ever since I've been watching it. JoshBM16 (talk) 15:23, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Copyedit tag
I've edited a bit, but I'm still not sure whether to remove the copyedit tag. Errors exist but may be relevant to the article (such as the Stonehedge typo). Someone with expertise on this article please read and confirm? Ian Waithaka (talk) 16:08, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Cleanup of "Cast"
There are some numberings in the cast like "1st", "2nd" and so on, along with some other information which does not make sense to new reader. Also, there have been many singular edits regarding these numbering. It should be either explained in the beginning of the section what these numbers are, or it should be removed totally. — usernamekiran (talk ) 17:55, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
 * do you think I should remove the numbering? I dont know what it is, so i cant be sure. I would like your opinion. Also, can you understand what it is? I cant. — usernamekiran  [talk]   22:46, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Voice actors, and policy for adding content
There was a lot of excessive information regarding voice actors of the show. I deleted it in good-faith. It included:
 * Inexplicable numbering which seems to be beyond everybody's understanding.
 * Inclusion of negligible characters which appeared in the show only in one episode for a breif moment.


 * Only such character details should be added in the article who are significant to the series, as this article is about the entire franchise, and about one particular season and/or series.


 * The information to be added here should be noteworthy in aspect of entire franchise.
 * If it is not so, then it should be included on the regarding article of the topic/show.


 * Thanks. — usernamekiran [talk]   18:17, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Semi protected edit request on 28 August 2021
Can anyone please add File:Ben 10 Omnitrix.png in Omnitrix with caption "Ben 10 Omnitrix concept design" for representation as vitual perspective for Omnitrix in the article. Thank You.119.157.73.0 (talk) 21:29, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template.  -ink&amp;fables   «talk»  22:03, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Reboot games
Someone should make Wikipedia pages for the two games based on the 2017 reboot. Stein256 (talk) 22:23, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090923001019/http://ben10.net:80/ to http://www.ben10.net

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External links modified
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Requested move 25 July 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 16:28, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Ben 10 (2005 TV series) → Ben 10 (2006 TV series) – Procedural nomination after user attempted a cut-and-paste move to this title. I am neutral. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 04:09, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose - The article is correctly titled and should not be moved. The series first aired in 2005 and that should be what is in the disambiguation. Geraldo Perez (talk) 20:02, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose if we strictly follow the relevant guideline on WP:NCTVUS. The first episode's original air date was on December 27, 2005, even though that was the only episode that originally aired during the 2005 calendar year. Zzyzx11 (talk) 01:32, 26 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.