Talk:Ben Hana/Archive 1

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older discussion:
The bulk of the second paragraph of this article seems to've been lifted directly from here. Can anyone confirm if it was copied legally with permission from the copyright owner? Otherwise it may need to be re-written. Izogi 08:56, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * As it stands right now, 203.97.26.210 has lifted some of the article from that page. I tried removing some content, and I see we need to remove more.  I don't think we have to add the copyvio template since the original article creation was not a violation. --Viriditas  | Talk 10:47, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

1/ lets build an awesome article
I have tried to contribute as much as i can and time allows, it seems to me that adding info is a good idea, and to discuss deletions and removals here. Its great to see such interest in kiwi wiki articles and projects, we can benefit from positive activity, that will increase our articles content and improve the spirit of collaboration. I have to agree that more isnt always good, but when there is little to begin with, the surgeons knife is likely to cripple the patient.. its certainly an interesting experiment in a kind of democracy... thank guys, appreciate the efforts, either way, it will ultimately benefit if it all stays available here, whether its in the historic pages, or in the article itself. mozamoza 06:12, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Images


The image with the police car and Ben Hana sitting on a car was recently removed from the article, but in my oppinion it should be reinserted and the blurry image to the top be removed instead. You can't see what that image portrays, and it isn't even sure it's Hama. Teklund 07:09, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Get a new photo of him, someone go down Courtney Place on a friday night please (such a hard thing to do...) --LeftyG 07:31, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

note I removed a from this talk page that was completely random. --LeftyG 07:21, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok well i didnt actually 'go down to Courtenay Place..' in truth i was simply driving through as usual enjoying the rich textures.. and stopped for a red light, as I often do, and the opportunity presented itself to me. Th efull image is stunning, possibly the best content i ever got in an image, and i am up to 20,000 image s a year (last two years). I trust that Ben approves. Mozasaur 13:35, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Added a picture I shot, will keep in mind this article if I get anymore Dwayne Kirkwood 09:33, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Removed the long skinny shot again, this shot doesn't really add much as it's blurred and horribly cropped, lets leave it off for now and perhaps get some better shots if possible. Also, are two photos of Courtney place really required? Specifically the blue sky picture which doesn't really concentrate on the area at all. Dwayne Kirkwood 08:06, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * look you may be right, but wiki is a strange place... i regard this environment as somewhat of a toy, a plaything, a learning experience, an experiment, a pathway to new knowledge of things not tried before, etc etc.. maybe in the end we are the only two people that care enough about this article, and we should find the common path to both enjoying and 'working' in it. so thanks for your adjustments, i am grateful under it all that someone finally has seen fit to add another pic.  one idea i had was to take my laptop down there and collaborate with Ben to add as much as I could to the article, using cafenet, 802.11, its quite possible, even to see ourselves on the cameras above there, streamed to the web. cheers Dwayne.. on ya mate..

Untitled
looks like the article is taking shape.. looking good, how about the locality pics are left until able to be replaced by suitable other pics assisting this article with its content. finding a reference to that tv broadcast would be good.moza 13:14, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment

related history to common sun god names and concepts
- Ra -	Well actually it might; as an Indengious people( known as the Mauri; recorded by the LIbrary of Alexandria in Egypt; ) to what would be modern day Libya; were known as sea navigators ( sailing as far as the isle of gold; Java to bring back gold for the Egyptians) setting out to circumnavigate the earth (at this time it was accepted in Egyptian History that the world was round; Eratosthenes:cira 276-192 b.c proved the the world was round; using rods, shadows and mathmatics ) Thus a flotilla; led by a rather conifdant chap ... Maui; left ... never to be seen again; evidence of their culture; beliefs have been left all through south east asia/(Tawian) the pacfic ( 235-225 b.c ' The Caves of the Navigators' the six ships captained by Rata ) and so forth ... so there is good chance that Maui of New Zealand Oral tails; who slowed the sun; is not unlike another people; subjected to slavery for a peroid of world history( thus enough time to assimalte influences of culture, religion, history and soceity; jews) who in Old testement tails wrote of God stopping the Sun for a time for a great battle. One tail told a thousand different ways. User:Alnico 16:47 2 March 2006
 * A sun baked, alcohol baked, westerner, with links to a mostly (indegenious) forgotten heritage, is probably looking at the concept of ' worshiping ' Ra ' as some utopian ideal, quite common among ' antisocial' disorders. User:Alnico13:58 3 March 2006


 * The possibilty exists, and we all want to know what the 'truth' is.moza 23:12, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm interested and would like to see this thread go elsewhere, sometime, in an appropriate article. moza 06:13, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Why him???
I Spend alot of my time hanging out with mates on Cuba Mall/Courtney Place and i just dont see why the blanket man.Some one has bothered to write about a homeless man who wears a blanket. Well koodos to that guy but really the artical is all wrong, the blancket man is not a nice person. every time i see him he is sitting in the gutter yelling, swearing and spitting at people and when you're by yourself it can actually be quite scary. Is this the kind of person we want representing our city along with the likes of Peter Jackson??? If your going to write an article about the homeless make it the nice homeless of Welington like the bucket man who was nice and never did anything to any one. As for Ben Hana hes had enough publicity.(203.173.150.208 03:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC)).


 * Using this logic, should we remove Hitler from Wikipedia, as Germany don't want that sort of person representing there country? Should we write just about the nice germans? Blanket Man is an icon of Wellington, and though through different eyes people think different things about him, this entry in Wikipedia isn't about 'opinion', I think this or I think that. It's a factual representation of a famous personality, without bias to his social caste. Dwayne Kirkwood 07:23, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


 * yes agree to ojectiveness; The Blanket man was written about today in the Wellington Regional Newspaper, with photo, and is rapidly becoming nationally infamous. It's all about media news now, and that is a separate issue to the person. The sevens tribute was quite funny, and seriously creative, I look at that bunch on my desktops and smile, often. look for yourself I dont agree with some aspects, but then I get hate email as a result of having a POV here, and demanding objectivity, some really despicable stuff, true. I think there are many symbols in this article, that kiwis relate to, maybe we need them, I am still figuring it out, so dont really know. I am more of an observer / reporter. I confess to wondering out loud, but really, dont take it too seriously until its verifiable... or  thats what they tell me over and over. Ben is subject to the same law as us, and we all know that, and i'm sure we all would expect it to be upheld. Oh, and by the way, YOU can start an article about anything you want, how about Wellington_Goodies it's really easy, thanks for not wrecking the article though, that alone is worthy of respect. moza 14:01, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Ojectiveness, yes, a snapshot of reality; its not as if; Ben Hana is being hailed as James K. Baxter's ' Maori Jesus 'walking on Wellington Harbor; as he wore dungarees; his beard and hair was long; his breath smelling of mussels and paraoa; and when he smiled it looked like the dawn ' But one could argue; that all things being equal; what is the state of ' New Zealand's Health ' and " Social Welfare ' systems? in regards to everyday ' Kiwis 'It's percieved funtion at home and abroad ... how often has the 'Brain of God ' been labotomized? why do people not bother to understand mental illness and almost forgotten everday phenomenon of ' gesellschaft? ' Lets document a man who does not conform to the status quo and how does this create ' meaning?' ; at the same time; this is also a forum for like minded individuals to contribute 'something ' everybody Knows a little bit of something, and a lot of people know alot of nothing' iron sharpens iron. User:Alnico 18:24  5 March 2006


 * love it but unsure of bits of that, FREDRIC. I did a bit of reading for interest of [gesellschaft]]:

Gemeinschaft / Gesellschaft Rural/Urban Community/Differentness Interaction/intimate Formal/task specific Cooperation/Self-interest Openness/Privacy Informal control/Formal control Less tolerance of deviance/Tolerance of deviance Ascribed Status/Achieved Little change/Rapid Change yes the eternal struggle to reconcile paradox... moza moza 12:11, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Just adding to the flavour, you are right though; not to lose sight of the article  User:Alnico  17:2  6 March 2006

Article Cleanup Required
The article is a bit out of control at the moment, not all the content is very relevant to the subject, and considering this is an encylopedia article it's a bit loose around the edges. I propose we remove the following sections and we combine "Poetic justice" into "History". The picture of someone's computer needs to go, and I'd still like to remove the sky picture of Courtney Place. Finally there is a typo with the date that the Wikipedia article appeared in the Newspaper. Dwayne Kirkwood 18:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Food For Thought
 * Locality characteristics
 * I think all the pics and words work together, and I'm biased of course, but ive been thinking for myself for about 50 years, so i have good grounds for seeeing it wholistically. Good to see discussion first but i think typos could be fixed without it. its bound to be a bit loose given that its wikipedia and the subject matter. I cant see too many people taking it too seriously, but i do think that somebody could make the effort to find better pics... really i still dont understand cutting stuff. why not 'transwikify' elsewhere? whatever, you are free to do what you want here, and my experience is that if the group of editors that may swoop through at any time are like I have seen before, the whole thing will change out of recognition, or be killed dead. Less is more in some art-forms and some educational and sales situations, true; but if you par it down and just leave the references, then it's posssibly unlikely that the simplistic visitors will learn anything significant about an important aspect of our society. They will probably continue to think that we are dumb or dumber for having a site about an 'apparently' less than deserving human. My belief is that the images stimulate further thought, short sections may stimulate further reading. Really, theres not all that much to say about the subject now, is there. But look, feel free, whatever you dont like out there could be moved in here just to keep it intact, until it can go somewhere else. How about a wiki page like Wellington_Attitudes or Kiwi_Attitudes etc... Hey!! I want to acknowledge that at least someone cares about how this article should be, and I'm prepared to appreciate, support, and trust that. So thanks Dwayne. I'm still confused as to why a lot of editors have been so vicous with their character assinations, and apparently not read or cared about Jimmy Wales concept of less focus on credentials, more on what they do and have done. There is another wiki type encyclopedia in the mill for scholars to be peered by peers. Let them go there. How about everyone is equal as a foundation for action. The head of wikipedia has a lot of interesting stuff to say on anti-eliteism and what he envisages as a flatter community. You gonna start an article on Courtenay Place? I'm moving out of the city over the next few weeks, and I doubt if i'll ever be back, and its of not much importance, kind of like watching tv, only interactive. moza 10:25, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Moza, stick around, we need your help. Dwayne, I went ahead and acted on your suggestion. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 10:38, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * saw the new pic, like it, nice and sharp. someone fixed the date, cool. I ask again, can someone go and discuss Bens ideas about what is said in his article? I think that might be the key to a really good article, before we strip it of value. The sun and sky played an amazing cloud opera on Sunday the 5th of April, did anyone else witness that? Does Ben really worship the sun, or the sky, or anything? does anyone actually KNOW? and where do you propose i relocate the desktop pic? to an article called Fans_of_Ben_Hana? tell ya what, I'll change the heading. Looks like I'm going to create my own web site about Ben, to cover the important issues that he stimulates us into thinking about. what could be more important than the re-structuring of society for long term survival of the planet? Help, i need help to understand. moza 10:42, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * thanks, Viriditas, could be the first time in 4 months ive actually been asked!!moza 10:42, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Dominion Post Article
Does anybody have any reference to the Dom Post article of March 2006, regarding this wikipedia article. As an early contributor I am kinda interested.
 * YES. its called Going Global: First Courtenay Place, now the world... Its located on the Opinion page, B4, really close to the editorial, immediately under the Tom Scott cartoon. 4th March 2006. I have a copy.. moza 11:29, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Food for Thought
"George Ritzer has taken central elements of the work of Max Weber, expanded and updated them, and produced a critical analysis of the impact of social structural change on human interaction and identity. The central theme in Weber's analysis of modern society was the process of Rationalization; a far reaching process whereby traditional modes of thinking were being replaced by an ends/means analysis concerned with efficiency and formalized social control." Robert Keel, Sociology 1010
 * Ben reminds us of one possible alternative to compliance with the new society.moza 11:16, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, but isn't this OR? &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 11:20, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Locality characteristics
Ben's chosen locality has significant relationships with historical Maori and European activities and events. The Lord of the Rings is one example. A Waka launching area is under construction a few blocks away at the new Waitangi Park, adjacent to Te Papa. The Waitangi stream is being lifted back out of the drains and passed through a new cleansing watercourse. An array of spiritually significant projects are under way for a range of people with diverse cultural values and beliefs.
 * well i thought that if you wanted to know about a human subject such as Ben Hana, then knowing about his chosen location would assist in some way. It could be simply that there is a high percentage of pedestrian traffic of people with food and money in their hands and pockets, both locals and tourists. There are plenty of buskers around and some beggars. The buildings indicate shelter from the harsh environment. Its cold and often wet and extremely windy outside of that shelter belt. The concrete and tarseal store the days heat and moderate the evening temperatures, that plummet in the open. My point is that while we are not supposed to say that stuff out there in the article, its the best way to build it. let someone else go and collect the data, its easily available. The sociology discussion isabout Bens human location, the attributes of the people around him, what they think. Again, there is little hard data, and that article may stimulate someone into collection. That he has fans, is probably saving his wiki article from deletion, coupled with the documentary. The pics are intended to illustrate those concepts. The fan pic is quite awesome, but someone has to sort the copyright and get it submitted. In the meantime the desktop pic will do. (btw, I didnt mean i wasnt coming back here, just not living in wgtn city).moza 11:16, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree; we should set the scene and setting, but we need to directly relate it to Ben. At the least, we should preserve, "a Waka launching area is under construction a few blocks away at the new Waitangi Park, adjacent to Te Papa. The Waitangi stream is being lifted back out of the drains and passed through a new cleansing watercourse". &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 11:24, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well I trust the re-arrangement and further contribution is considered in all aspects. The top pic is clearly the best so far. The artwork is a tribute to Ben and the locality, culture, setting etc.. given with un-conditional love guys. so tear it up or value it for what it has to say, your choice. The bottom pics are hardly needed, a pic from high up the hill would be better. I guess i'll go and get some. The fans pic needs to be here!!! moza 02:54, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Blanket Man in Tokoroa
Before Ben became a feature of Wellington he resided in front of the court house in Tokoroa. I remember he caused some controversey with memebers of the town wanting him to move on. He carried a bible with him and if I recall correctly used to preach, he also used to wear his tattered pants (mentioned in the article) then. I think he was in Tokoroa around 1999-2000 possibly even 2001. It would be interesting if someone could dig up any articles of the South Waikato News, Tokoroa's local rag. It would be helpful to search Newstext which is available to University students on the database. Looking through the newspapers from this time, which should be available at the National library in Wellington. It would be iteresting to see where Ben came from and where he visited before he came to Wellington. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.184.12.13 (talk • contribs) 05:59, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

New picture
 Ben seems to have gotten a new blanket. I would add this to the article but i'm annoyed it's out of focus. If no one else manages to shoot anything soon and he remains with this blanket, I suggest we use this. Also to note is that this is on Manners/Willis corner, he was off somewhere, but I didn't bother following him. Dwayne Kirkwood 01:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Adding to article as someone has edited the article to mention this is his new blanket. Will replace with a better shot in the future Dwayne Kirkwood 06:55, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Living Art
Ben and the existence of his world-wide notability says more about us than about him. How about a piece in his article covering that aspect, perhaps written by a respected artist or sociologist, whatever. He is a living art installation, whether we like it or not. Another famous kiwi artist, Len Lye, did some pretty objectional things, to mainstream society thinking, in Edinborough, funded by art. I dont think that you have to conciously be an artist to be one. Yet another famous Kiwi artist recently said to his artist daughter, "Art is what it is". (well thats what she told me). In the meantime I have created a web page that collects the relevant points that I think are important to make about Ben, in an eclectic, non-peered manner, in an place that no-one can edit ever, except me. Do you really want a separate article in wiki about the other half of the Ben Hana story? I dont think so.moza 04:44, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Irrationality
 * Structures of Society
 * Ben Hana Tribute

Discussion Before editing
any chance of some discussion prior to removal of material? when I first arrived at this page it was almost not an article, a long paragraph. Since building it into something at least apppearing to be an article, it has been hijacked and messed with to the state where it no longer contains lots of information that I consider important to it. There's almost nothing about Bens Fans for instance. There's still no image of his immediate environment, and anybody that dares add stuff may as well not bother. This article hardly has any verifiable references, and really needs to be allowed to mature by following the normal international wiki procedure of discussion PRIOR to surgery.Its called good faith. moza 02:12, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * "The existence of Ben and the surrounding debate" - the surrounding debate of what? Dwayne Kirkwood 04:39, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Here is a sample of what people think, but cant be bothered following any rules of editing, from earlier today. moza 12:15, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * ''--125.236.44.42 22:27, 27 March 2006 (UTC)he is a shame to new zealnd he has an ipod for gods sake

''

Bens Visitors (web)
It may be of interest to some of you, to see some of the visitor data to Bens web sites,it certainly was enough to me to pursue this. I have placed a traceics function on the Fan site, and as most traffic today is either myself or from Bens wiki page, I thought I would share some of that with you. You can see Bens fan site traffic in detail at http://stat1.traceics.co.nz/stat/raychingconzBenH/ you can see i'm giving full disclosure in the name of open source - freedom of information etc etc.. Tuesday, 03/28/2006, 14:34:52 	pspc18-241.parliament.govt.nz 12:16:05 	pharmgate.pharmac.govt.nz 11:56:08 	mail.standards.co.nz 11:53:05 	wel-cache.massey.ac.nz 09:40:08 	rsnz.xtreme.net.nz Ben has some interesting visitors, who also now visit his fan site. (clearly the wiki page has about 100 times as many visitors)moza 03:27, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * and we had some more visitors from:

Thursday, 03/30/2006, 14:18:57 moo.wcc.govt.nz 14:01:06 smtp.wellington-girls.school.nz 12:01:30 frstpcs.frst.govt.nz 10:44:41 cpe-66-67-62-225.rochester.res.rr.com 10:10:26 202.20.0.56.dts.net.nz 09:39:31 210-55-193-17.dds.xtra.co.nz 00:46:21 auaw.aua.auc.dk 20:18:12 fire1.livestock.org.nz dont worry i wont be keeping this up, you can see for yourself at the link provided. moza 14:04, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

The Migration of Ben (Blanket Man)
It appears that of recent times Ben aka Blanket Man is migrating towards the northern end of Lambton Quay. (A and G, 1.4.06) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rubylolly (talk • contribs) 02:40, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

nzoom link broken?
It doesn't appear to work. Can it be fixed or removed please. - SimonLyall 12:34, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
 * removed faulty link, added a pile of new working ones. Almost enough material for an article on Homeless of Wellington now, if anyone can be bothered, not very sexy subject matter though, so perhaps will have to wait.moza 13:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

feature
This article should either get featured article status or get a featured pic. it would be well worth it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.86.74.82 (talk) 04:10, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Content

 * "One in particular, Jerry Collins, is often seen talking and mingling with Hana and others of the homeless community around Cuba and Manners Mall. Dressed in his shirt and tie he always has time to stop for a chat or spare some change, He can also be sometimes seen cruising the mean streets of Wellington in the 'Te Waka' or partaking in a friendly push up competition with fellow Manners Mall locals."

Keeping in mind that this is supposed to be encyclopedia article, this piece of text needs to be changed at the very least to example what 'Te Waka' is, and removing things like 'cruising the mean streets'.

Also, the two photos of Courtney Place are mostly irrelevant, and should probably be placed within it's own article rather than Ben's.

Finally,
 * "In late 2005, coverage in the Dominion Post noted Blanket Man among a group of vagrants who are causing considerable concern for retailers and shoppers in the Cuba Mall/Manners Mall district. By December 2005, the neighbouring businesses had employed security guards in order to keep Hana and his colleagues away from his normal abode in Courtney Place."

So - the 'vagrants' are causing trouble in Cuba and Manners Mall. So, in reply, businesses hire security guards to keep Hana away from Courtney Place? Doesn't really make much sense. Would be good if someone could pull up an article off the net on this incident, there were a few around at the time. Dwayne Kirkwood 09:33, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * "In 2002 he was arrested..." "....he spent several weeks living with other vagrants on the base of the Wellington cenotaph. This abode was visible from the offices of many Members of Parliament, and before long New Zealand First leader Winston Peters complained about Hana's presence to police, saying that the vagrants were desecrating an important monument. They were subsequently moved on."

I used to see Ben regularly (daily) sleeping on the same park bench within the grounds of Parliament Buildings before he moved down to the Cenotaph with others. This was back when he had his first leopard-skin type blanket, which at the time was in mint condition. I suspect the cronology of events in this article are not entirely accurate. Does anyone else remember seeing him sleeping on the bench there for many weeks at a time? I'm sure it must have been prior to 2002... fonetikli 05:19, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Peer review request
Could be the best thing that happened to this article, but I havent observed the process so simply dont know. Can I expect a rationale? can we have a list of reasoning points to assist the reviewers? can a link to the review project palce be clearly placed here so that all interested can easily participate? thanks, I look forward to learning a whole new section of wikipedia..moza 04:10, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok all, I tracked it down, and heres a copy:

General feedback would be useful on this article. Seeing what needs to be added would be useful as well. --Midnighttonight 02:43, 13 May 2006 (UTC) Good job! --Enano275 22:27, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * My comments:
 * The lead is too short, remember that it should summarize the rest of the content.
 * Does anyone now his age or birth date?
 * Specially in the history I noticed that the grammar could be improved, unfortunately, mine is not very good either. Someone else could probably check the writing.
 * Try not to place one image after another, because that causes the edit buttons to be placed incorrectly near the bottom (at least in Firefox). Instead, place the images individually in each section. You could place some in the left side too.
 * References seemed to stop after the sociology section. Also, using the  tool would be better, though not necessary.
 * I'm not 100% positive about this, but is it a good idea to talk about that Wikipedia article in the Wikipedia article?
 * I gotta ask though, why not just go and make those changes, or suggest them here PRIOR to peer review? There are lots of us monitoring this article, and I'm sure some of those points are good, and not gonna be argued. I could learn about the image placement techniques for instance.moza 04:18, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
 * sorry, Midnight, my error, it was the reviewers list, i guess we can make the changes now seeing as no other user has commented. moza 14:32, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Bens world wide web presence
You can see a chart of Bens web presence near the bottom of the Fan site. I am manually searching periodically and tracking the results. I expect the Fan page to appear in the results somewhere between 3 and 14 days from the creation of the page. Whether you agree with what I'm doing or not, whether you have any understanding or not, you can still choose to allow this process time to develop and give the sociologists some hard data to work with. This is about an incredibly interesting set of circumstances in our society. That table also provides a quick reference to other websites that refer to Ben Hana. I'm happy for any of my contributions to be copied to wiki, apart from the single image labelled as such, but past experience is that sociology is unwanted on his site, and removed, so now you all have access anyway. moza 03:27, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, prediction was on target, Google trawled the relevant link sites a few days ago and here is the result. It took 8 days, and there have been several web sites appear in the top 100 results in that period. The fan site is in at #7. remember the results of many pages are interdependent now. enjoy!moza 16:25, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 * 3 months later a google.com search of Ben Hana still yields the wikipedia article as #1 but shows that the fan site has climbed to #3, of 690,0000 results. Traffic details can be looked at by anyone here: here. Its generally over 100 per week and 500 per month. About half come from NZ, a quarter from Australia, and a fifth from USA.moza 01:01, 11 July 2006 (UTC)



New Image Arrangement better or worse?
what do you think, is it better or worse? personally I prefer the old arrangement but I'm interested in the opinions and feelings of others.moza 00:50, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Worse. Left aligned pictures never work.... Dwayne Kirkwood 00:53, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * thanks, i think it looks really dumb but just wanted to be cautious about changing it. Hey, 3 seconds is a pretty fast response, awesome!moza 01:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Jemima?
I cant find any verification and it has the appearance of tongue in cheek, anyone else willing to tackle this? AGF says to check it out and give it a reasonable chance before removal. It may be predictive otherwise, and subject to that policy also.moza 04:33, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Aunt Jemima Prophecy: Cobra Sign A fiction novel by Steve Kenya, loosely based on the life of Ben Hana. Set to be released in Fall 2006..
 * Book does not exist. Delete reference

recent edits
who is Chris Paul and what is a hack defined as? if there is no response then those edits will be removed in a reasonable time period.moza 02:18, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Chris Paul
The article notes that "Hana inspires both loathing and a grudging respect amongst the citizens of Wellington, especially from Chris Paul." Who is this Chris Paul, and why should anyone care about what he thinks? I have removed the reference to him.

--Roue2 06:12, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Fans of Ben Hana website rules the web!!
yeah type ben hana into google and report your results here: its #1 finally. pushed wikipedia from the top spot.222.152.86.32 13:46, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

great guy!
I often give him a friendly wave as I walk past (which I usually do)and he allways smiles and waves back. Hes allways jamming to his beats, and is a jolly polite person. He is a part of wellington and lots of people respect him for his freedom to wander the streets and do what he wishs, please, to everybody mocking him, can you just sit down and have a talk with this guy before you judge him a violent criminal.203.167.145.45 10:39, 14 September 2006 (UTC)Oscar

Article Misrepresentation/Bias

 * When I first read this article, I was left with the impression that this guy was some kind of protester/activist, campaigning against a materialistic society and leading by example.
 * Having recently encountered him, it became obvious to me that he was just an angry, drunk, homeless person, with little desire to do anything other than swear at and intimidate passers-by. His persistence in flouting the law is (for some incomprehensible reason) tolerated and even (to a certain degree) celebrated by people who would normally find this sort of behavior totally unacceptable and offensive.
 * Calling his living status an 'art project' is utterly ridiculous, and I fail to see what gives a "Movie Reviewer" any authority to attribute motives to Blanketman. This quotation, from a person who is totally unqualified to assess this sort of behavior, influences the overall tone of this article in a way that attempts to legitimize/excuse this man's anti-social demeanor.
 * Blanketman is no different than any other homeless person: quite likely suffering from some mental illness, or at the very least thoroughly unwilling to make an attempt at living within society's norms.
 * I consider this article heavily biased and to be quite at odds with the actual reality of the situation surrounding this man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.86.28.21 (talk) 01:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Sun God
Ben Hana is clearly worshipping the Maori Sun God, Ra. (aka Ra, Te Ra, or Tira to the Maori) and known as Ra to the ancient Egyptions. [http://transitofvenus.auckland.ac.nz/docs/MaoriStarLore.doc. ref 1]


 * This sounds like speculation, has anyone actually asked him? Dwayne Kirkwood 08:04, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, do we really know what Ben's religious beliefs really are? I have heard that it was the Egyptian god, but then that's just speculation. Does anybody have a definitive answer?


 * He's a very different and engaging person while sober, which sadly isn't the case at the moment. A couple of years ago, when he was tea total, he really was an activist, and when he cleaned himself up for court he again represented these facts. They weren't accepted, because they are wacked, but he does believe them. Cheers

The Sando (talk) 08:06, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Newztext References
—porges(talk) 11:18, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 05-12-2007 	THE DOMINION POST Blanket Man 'a city celebrity'
 * 29-08-2007 	THE DOMINION POST Fighting crime and making cities safe
 * 18-12-2006 	THE DOMINION POST 'Blanket man' to defy order
 * 26-09-2006 	THE DOMINION POST Car a waka, claims `Blanketman' in appeal
 * 09-01-2004 	THE DOMINION POST `Blanket man' out of prison
 * 07-11-2003 	THE DOMINION POST Shorter jail term for `Blanket Man'
 * 03-10-2003 	THE DOMINION POST Blanket Man gets four months' jail
 * 17-03-2000 	TRUTH 	Homeless man's cry for help lands him in court
 * 18-12-2006 	STUFF — THE DOMINION POST `Blanket man' to defy order
 * 26-09-2006 	STUFF — THE DOMINION POST Car a waka, claims 'Blanketman' in appeal
 * 25-02-2004 	STUFF — THE DOMINION POST 'Blanket man' back in court
 * 25-02-2004 	STUFF — THE DOMINION POST 'Blanket man' back in court
 * 01-11-2000 	STUFF — THE DAILY NEWS 	Book brings back surfing stories
 * 07-11-2003 	STUFF — THE DOMINION POST Shorter jail term for 'Blanket Man'
 * 03-10-2003 	STUFF — THE DOMINION POST Wellington's 'Blanket Man' gets four months' jail
 * 03-10-2003 	STUFF — THE DOMINION POST Blanket Man gets four months' jail
 * 08-01-2008 	THE DOMINION POST 	DIARY
 * 03-01-2008 	THE DOMINION POST 	This man is no landmark
 * 06-07-2007 	THE DOMINION POST 	DIARY
 * 11-04-2007 	THE DOMINION POST 	TO THE POINT
 * 10-04-2007 	THE DOMINION POST 	DIARY
 * 26-01-2007 	THE DOMINION POST 	DIARY
 * 20-01-2007 	THE DOMINION POST 	'Blanketman' in jail again
 * 17-10-2006 	THE DOMINION POST 	[No Published Headline]
 * 18-08-2006 	THE DOMINION POST 	[No Published Headline]
 * 26-06-2004 	THE DOMINION POST  	THE LAST WORD
 * 14-06-2004 	THE DOMINION POST 	Blanketman in court
 * 05-06-2004 	THE DOMINION POST 	Judge sets Blanketman free to roam
 * 26-04-2004 	THE DOMINION POST 	Seeing the life of homeless
 * 28-02-2004 	THE DOMINION POST 	The Week
 * 25-02-2004 	THE DOMINION POST 	`Blanket man' back in court
 * 21-11-2003 	THE DOMINION POST 	`Blanket man' back in jail
 * 15-03-2003 	THE DOMINION POST 	Five Tonks Ave protesters guilty of trespass
 * 03-07-2002 	THE EVENING POST 	Trespass trial date set
 * 08-05-2002 	THE EVENING POST 	Bypass protester can still empty bin
 * 14-01-2002 	THE EVENING POST 	Maori group claims reserve land
 * 01-11-2000 	THE DAILY NEWS 	Book brings back surfing stories

What notable thing has this guy done?
Seriously what has this guy done? From reading the article it sounds like the only thing he is famous for is being a homeless bum, and I don't see how that justifies an article here. Canuck85 (talk) 09:32, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * He has an article because he is a famous local figure, not just because he is a homeless person.121.216.136.18 (talk) 14:59, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Who is Ben Hana?
The article doesn't even say who he is, where he was born, how old he is, etc... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 35.11.38.122 (talk) 09:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I have recently been contacted by members of Ben's family and have learnt new information, and when it is verified and permission is given I will place it here. It's stuff like real name, birth etc.. amazing how my fan site was the path that connected all of us, it did some real good, as opposed to the wiki article. Paul Moss (talk) 03:49, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Lets rip the article to shreds, again (sigh)
I naively thought that the 'talk' page was just that, for talk. but apparently it's not, if you cant be bothered. Anyone can shred at any time.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul Moss (talk • contribs) 04:40, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Warning!! this note contains Original Research (its called real life)
real life guys. I sat in Courtroom No 7 on Tuesday around 11:30am listening to a recent trial and I was highly amused by the lawyer and the policeman witness using the 'f' word and the 'c' word endlessly while the lawyer established what was alleged to have been said and how offensive or in-offensive it might actually be, in reality. The sentence alleged to have been used was 'f' off 'c' in relation to telling the policeman to go away. the use of the 'f' word was put to the witness and court as in highly common use, and having no offensive value at all anymore, the 'c' word was either in realtion to a 'birth canal' or 'an untrusted person' as defined by the NZ dictionary. There was further discussion, about peace pipes and fingers, alcohol, softdrink; "I'm stepping out the diabetes!!", and other alleged remarks, but the curious thing is that 3 Judges sat and adjourned to consider the case, and I havent heard any outcomes.

I was extremely tempted to break the law myself, and take a photograph that i felt would make the front page of our local newspaper, and be of high interest here. After hearing both 'f' and 'c' words used by policeman and lawyer over and over in a court of law, and hearing the police and others laugh (in court) about what a waste of everyones time it all was (when the witness and defendants had left), I felt like another sacred cow was dead. And I find it somehow refreshing that the taboos of words have been stripped of their power for punishment. When there is a news item about this, hopefully someone will publish the link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.100.229 (talk) 03:32, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

fix it
hard to believe the history of this article, looking at all the iterations, and massively wasted energy. how about fixing it instead of tagging it.. oh the new tagging zone has arrived, no paint required.. ffs how about talking it through here? surely this article has presented more than enough evidence to exist without the tags, and just be what its meant to be. wierd really, but i suppose this is the new IT, the new Information Environment. whatever, its not even funny anymore.mozasaur (talk) 14:22, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

latest news - extensive coverage
[apparent copy of the stuff article removed as copyvio]-gadfium

ref: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/local/3831161/The-man-behind-the-blanket

cheers mozasaur (talk) 13:59, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

lets get rid of him
What sort of amazing person is he? Looks like a homeless bum who contributes nothing. People work hard and contribute to there lives and family. A person who sits on the ground in a busy public space is what is know in the old days as the village idiot.

I met a guy who worship the sun once, he walked around with solar panels on his head and was always trying to call the mother ship. He dressed tidy and did not get in peoples way. Was always keen if you asked him what he was doing. In general a nice bloke. Why isn't he in the Wikipedia? Maybe it is because he lives in Patia and does not seek public attention.

Get rid of this Wellington nobody who does nothing but add conformity to being a bum.

Well done to all those people who think of him as some kind of spiritually amazing person, Your life must now be so rich in culture and your intellect must bustle with creation.

Get rid of him.

-FASCIST! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.205.75 (talk) 11:31, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You don't have to be an amazing person to feature on Wikipedia. Ben has an article because he's a well known figure. Yes you are correct, he is a homeless person. But this doesn't make him any less of a human being than anyone else. He's pretty much famous in Wellington, and for this reason he has a page on Wikipedia, for those looking for more information on him. Dwayne Kirkwood 04:09, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


 * You dont have to be an amazing person to get rid of stuff, and the truly incredible thing is that we are still here adding, and thats good. Thanks to both of you, your comments stimulate discussion and thought. To the person that wants him gone, there is due process, but your chances of success are fairly remote, in my judgement. Re-read and you will see there is a fair amount of tongue in cheek, albeit dry, ie easy to fool, and why not just add something worthwhile, to substantiate your opinion. The sevens fans did their bit for promoting Ben, and that is significant and notable.  I think Ben represents our precious freedom to more or less do what we want, if we are not hurting anyone. He portrays an image that provokes our thinking as to why, that makes him living art, and that is of some value to society. Who will ever know the truth? and what does that matter so much anyway, its a personal experience that is happening here as much as public. check out the image of 'Tribute to Ben Hana' or is it a worshipping of the sun that gives us light and fabulous images to see and share? I have a core concept of Rakiura, (mis)translated by myself as 'works of light in the land of the glowing skies'. If you think thats unrelated verbosity, you need to speak with Ben, he sees the colourful stuff in the clouds, that I record, and that most people miss on their 'busy' and 'important' daily missions. and by the way where's Patia? officially it doesnt exist, (there are 55,000+ place names, I'm a digital cartographer licensed to the crown) there is a place called Patia Point, PNT. I guess you mean Patea, but hardly anyone looking here would be able to make that quantum leap.. Its probably correct to say that most of us (including me) know very little about Ben. moza 06:13, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * What a coward, to make such a judgment anonymously... your comment isn't even worth keeping but we believe in keeping even rubbish on discussion pages. ··gracefool&#9786; 10:38, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ben came and sat down in the general area, at 1 Courtenay Place, that I ran a community outreach science event last night, and was well behaved and wandered off without any drama a bit later. I had seen him previously enjoying the sun in his usual place.  His new blanket is great, with STARS on it... funny because we deployed some fairly powerful telescopes to share the planets with the public for free. I've seen him heaps but never seen any badness or anything to be concerned about, so I dont really understand the objections to him. He isnt what most people anonymously and remotely say about him. We get out and give amazing personal experiences of the night sky for free, and that is a hugely positive and rewarding activity for everyone concerned, contrast that with the continued negative drivel here in this space... it speaks for itself.mozasaur (talk) 10:31, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Why is the lazy bum on here
This is so stupid. This is some lazy, homeless bum! This is the same kind of scumbag that attacked my wife last year. Take this crap off. For all the people that support him on here, take him in your house or send him money. Oh, not willing to to that? Than shut up already!--216.52.73.254 13:14, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * He's very well known in Wellington, probably much more than other homeless people. Sorry to hear about your problems with homeless people.  But being well known (within reason, and that could still be determined in this case) should be enough to be listed in Wikipedia.  If you have something objective to say about him that's worth saying according to Wikipedia conventions, please edit the article. Izogi 20:40, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I also question the rationale of articles like in context of various other other article exclusions on WIkipedia. It makes little sense. The article should be deleted as not notable. Iconoclast.Horizon (talk) 05:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

News - Ben Hana wiki site copy is added to 3g website
These guys have created a page that charts straight in to Google at #9, check it out at http://www.3g.co.nz/wiki/index.php?searchtype=wikipedia&search=Ben_Hana who owns 3g.co.nz ??? my search is blocked. Check out http://www.instinct.co.nz/ for mobile wikipedia.

In the News
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3808750a11,00.html

User:Alnico   8:42am      26 September 2006 does ben know that he has a wikipedia page? if hes 'such a nice guy' then why has no one told him? ahd he likes to touch guys alot

Fan Page ranks #2 google.com search result for Ben Hana
so why was it removed as a reference source?

ref: http://www.rayching.co.nz/BenHana.htm

mozasaur (talk) 14:02, 20 June 2010 (UTC) +
 * Most of the pics on that page are broken. Also, that's a real conflict of interest you have there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.93.42.113 (talk • contribs) 16 January 2012
 * It's entirely appropriate that mozasaur asked about using his own website on this talk page. It's a shame that no one replied to him while it was fully operational.- gadfium 20:57, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


 * No it's not. He's presenting it as a reputable source without declaring his interest.
 * My interest is clearly almost zero, it just isnt important enough waste energy on anymore.mozasaur (talk) 10:37, 2 September 2012 (UTC)