Talk:Ben Zinn

Israeli national team
The reference supplied states he was a "star on the Israeli national champion soccer team". I interpret this to mean he played for the team that became champions of the Israel national league, not that he played for the national team of Israel. The same reference does clearly state he did play for the USA national team, but I would like to see a back-up reference for this as the quote came from a tertiary source not considered authoritative on the subject - basically equivalent to the guy's employer making a speech at his award ceremony; ie, good supporting source, but not reliable as independent peer reviewed secondary source. If he truly played an official match for USA it will be recorded somewhere, and if he only played unofficial or "B" internationals the article should reflect this accurately-- Club Oranje T 10:30, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Apologies - it was my interpretation of "star on the Israeli national champion soccer team" which led me to say he was an international; on closer inspection, however, it almost certainly does refer to his club career. However, which club? GiantSnowman 10:46, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, if he played for the champions in 1957 then that means he must have played for Hapoel Tel Aviv - his hometown club. GiantSnowman 14:34, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

E-mail
I have e-mailed Ben Zinn himself to clear up a few facts, here is the record of the e-mails he has sent me.

E-mail 1
From: Zinn, Ben T  Sent: Tue 24/03/2009 10:11 To: Philip Copley;  Subject: RE: A quick question about your soccer career

Hi Mr. Copley, I will be happy to work with and would appreciate getting the following information: I look forward to your response. Ben
 * 1) What prompted you to create an article about me in Wikipedia?
 * 2) Where did you get the information about me, which clearly needs updating?

GiantSnowman 11:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

E-mail 2
From: Zinn, Ben T  Sent: Wed 25/03/2009 11:25 To: Philip Copley Subject: RE: A quick question about your soccer career

Hi Philip, I will respond shortly to your questions, hopefully before the end of the week when my schedule lightens up a bit. I also wonder if you have visited my Ga. Tech web site? In the mean time, please tell me a bit more about youself. With best wishes, Ben

GiantSnowman 11:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

E-mail 3
From: Zinn, Ben T  Sent: Fri 27/03/2009 13:06 To: Philip Copley; 'Zinn, Ben T' Subject: RE: A quick question about your soccer career

Hi Phil,

Below is edited version of what I found in Wikipedia and additional information, which may be of help to you.

Here are a few more details about my soccer career, which was relatively short because of the demands of my academic career.

In 1957, just before coming to the states, I played for Hapoel Tel Aviv that won the Israeli first division championship that year. The same year I visited the US with an Israeli All Star team (sort of a national team) and also played in Britain (Arsenal), Scotland (Celtics) and France (Racing Club of Paris). While in the US, I played about five times for the US national team including a 1959 game against England. The English team included: Bobby Wright, Charleston, Hopkins and other well known players (I still have the game’s program, if you are interested). While at NYU and Stanford, I played for the NY and California All Stars teams.

Thanks for your interest and best wishes.

Ben

GiantSnowman 13:23, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

E-mail 4
From: Zinn, Ben T  Sent: Sat 28/03/2009 13:59 To: Philip Copley Cc: 'zinn' Subject: RE: A quick question about your soccer career

Hi Phil, Yes, please see attachment. My name then was Ben Cinovitz and my age in the program is mistakenly listed as 25. I was born in 1937 (too long ago...) at was 22 in 1959. Best wishes, Ben

GiantSnowman 13:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

E-mail 5
From: Zinn, Ben T  Sent: Sat 28/03/2009 14:14 To: Philip Copley Cc: 'zinn' Subject: RE: A quick question about your soccer career

Hi Phil, A few additional clarifications. It's true that I never "formally" played for the Israeli national team. I played, however, for Israeli "All Star" teams that travelled in the US and Europe, as I have written to you about already. I was invited to play for the Israeli National team when I finished serving in the Israeli army around Nov./Dec. 57 but decided instead to go to the States to study. In 1962, when I was studying for my MS degree at Stanford University I was contacted by then the Israeli national team coach Giola Mandy (spelling?; a Hungarian who coached Israel's national team at the time) who asked me to fly to Rome to play for Israel against Italy in the world cup. I turned him down because I did not want to miss school. I regret this decision to this very day because not many people get an opportunity to play against Italy in Rome in a world cup game. Please feel free to ask questions. Best wishes, Ben

GiantSnowman 13:33, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

E-mail 6
From: Zinn, Ben T <e-mail removed} Sent: Sun 29/03/2009 15:36 To: Philip Copley; 'Zinn, Ben T' Subject: RE: A quick question about your soccer career

Hi Phil,

Here are the clarifications you asked for and some additional information, which you may find useful/interesting.

When I played in Israel, the government there had a policy that athletes representing the country overseas should have Hebrew names. My parents Polish surname was Cynowicz, which in Hebrew (or English) sounded like "Tzinovitz". To conform to the government's policy, I shortened "Tzinovitz" into "Tzinn", which is a name of a desert in the bible. I then used the name 'Tzinn' when I travelled with the Israeli all star teams to the US and Europe. When I came to America, I initially used the name Cinovitz or Cinowitz, as it appears in the program that I sent you and after living in the US for awhile I finally reverted to my official Hebrew surname "Tzinn" or "Zinn" as is my formal name now.

My first name in Hebrew is "Ben Tzion", which means the “son of Zion”. When I came to America I adopted Ben as my first name and my middle initial 'T' comes from the ‘T’ in the second half of my first name.

I noted in the links that you sent you that some of the correspondents questioned whether and/or how many times I played for the US national team. Hopefully, the program that I sent you about playing against England provides some clarification. I also remember playing for the US against West Berlin in Chicago and have somewhere a photo from this game which appeared in a Chicago newspaper. I also think that I travelled with the US team to Bermuda to play against the Island's national team. Finally, I recall travelling around the US with the US national playing in various cities, e.g., St. Louis, against local all star teams. These events occurred nearly 50 years ago and most of them are vague in my mind.

I continued playing soccer in semi pro leagues in San Francisco and New York during while studying at Stanford and Princeton and finally had to give it up when studying for my Ph.D. at Princeton because the pressures of having to take care of a family (my two kids were born in Princeton) and to complete my Ph.D., which dealt with “Combustion Instabilities in Liquid Propellant Rocket Motors”. After moving to Atlanta, I continued playing for fun in local leagues and the Atlanta Chiefs offered to sign me for a contract to play for them (I used to practice with them). Incidentally, the Atlanta Chiefs won the US soccer championship around 1967 or 1968. It was then that I decided that I would be better off devoting my energies and time to my academic endeavors. I never regretted that decision.

Take care and please direct me to the link where you have changed your write-up of my soccer career.

Ben

GiantSnowman 12:11, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I was planning to interview him for my weblog... but I think he already said all! --necronudist (talk) 12:34, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

E-mail 7
From: Zinn, Ben T  Sent: Mon 30/03/2009 14:04 To: Philip Copley; 'Zinn, Ben T' Subject: RE: A quick question about your soccer career

Hi Phil, Thanks for your efforts on my behalf. Following some of the references in the write-up in Wikipedia brought many memories back; e.g., some of fellows that I played with in NY and the reference to my 'ex' father in law, Erno Schwarcz, a Hungarian who was an international soccer star and owned the NY Hakoah, the team I played for. I would enjoy having your contact information and hope that one day we will have a chance to meet. Please contact me if you ever get to Atlanta. Best wishes, Ben

GiantSnowman 02:33, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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