Talk:Benandanti

Ginzburg
"It seems that even the inquisitors deemed the actions of the Benandanti to be too ridiculous to take seriously."

I am deleting this sentence, as it promotes a definite POV in violation of Wikipedia's NPOV policy.xanandax 01:16, 29 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure why that statement's POV. The inquisitors seem to have been quite surprised by the testimony of the benandanti, and to have (at least in some cases) treated them as if they were mad or stupid. The inquisitors did indeed sometimes fail to take the Benandanti seriously. I need to go consult Ginzburg to give better references... Fuzzypeg 00:42, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I've read the book (*Night Battles*) - some inquisitors did in fact find the Benandanti to be "ridiculous". It's not POV to just state what happened - Ginzburg wrote the book based on the inquisition records.


 * That said, I don't remember anything about a Goddess in *Night Battles* - they were Christians, who believed that they were fighting evil witches, not pagans. Ginzburg believed they may have been connected to some surviving pagan beliefs, but this is just speculation, as his evidence does not necessarily support this.


 * It should also be stated more prominantly that everything we know about the Benandanti comes from Ginzburg's research - Jb? 08:33, 14 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I seem to recall reading about this female figure "the Abbess" (I think she was referred to as) in Ecstasies. I'll go back and see if I can find the reference.
 * I'm not quite sure of your intention with stating that it was Ginzburg who discovered the records of the Benandanti. I presume you mean we should state his achievement more prominently. If you instead intended that we should reserve judgement on Ginzburg's story because it might just be his "version", I would point out that all the original documents are available to other researchers, and that Ginzburg has been lauded by the rest of the academic community dealing with the witch trials. I presume you mean the former... Fuzzypeg ☻ 23:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Wine
I've just read the book, and the following is false: "On the way home from their feasting or fighting, the Benandanti would often go into cellars to drink and then urinate in the casks. Supposedly if they did not do this, the wine would be spilt." They said that witches urinated in the casks, not benandnati.
 * I'm sorry, I'm not quite certain what you're saying. Are you saying that Ginzburg has misrepresented the evidence? Where are you getting your contradicting information from, and where may we obtain this information to confirm it? Fuzzypeg ☻ 06:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I see the article has just been edited to the effect of what you're saying. I reverted this because it doesn't accord with my recollection of what Ginzburg wrote in Ecstasies. Please provide a reliable citation for this claim if you want to put it in the article. Thanks, Fuzzypeg ☻ 04:39, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I remove the sentence. First user is right, I think you got confused with the Inquisition's report (which sometimes claimed the Benandanti did that). References can be found all around "Night Battles", you don't have to read far to see one of them. Tazmaniacs 16:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Modern Friuli usage
I just cut a section about modern Friuli usage of the word "Benandanti". It wasn't very clear, and needs a source. Jkelly 22:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

This article is a mess
This article has departed a long way from what can be considered scholarly or accurate. It portrays the benandanti as witches, without mentioning the controversy in this designation, since the benandanti themselves denied that they were witches but claimed to be fighting against witches; in fact, there is a close relationship between their beliefs and the diabolised stereotypes of witchcraft, which Ginzburg has charted for us in his book Ecstasies, but the article doesn't explain that relationship, which is really one of the most interesting things about the benandanti. Similarly, there is no discussion of the issues around designating them as "shamans": Ronald Hutton has vociferously argued that they should not be called 'shamans' since they're not from Siberia (though his opinion is not necessarily shared by other scholars). Their practices are certainly 'shamanistic', and Ginzburg charts their development from a shamanistic substratum extending across the whole of Europe and originating in central Eurasia; this again is a remarkably interesting and important issue surrounding the benandanti, and just calling them 'shamans' does no justice to it.

They are described as shape-changers, with no explanation that they didn't physically change shape: they merely reported leaving their bodies in spirit, in the form of various animals. To claim that in Northern Europe they took the forms of dogs is ridiculous, since the benandanti were only in the Friuli (Northern Italy). I haven't read all the errors yet, but I shall, and I shall remove them. From what I can see, this article is little more than a stub, fleshed out with erroneous material. 210.54.242.93 (talk) 21:18, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, that comment was by me (logged in now). Fuzzypeg★ 21:18, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Euphemism
According to the article,
 * [...] the Benandanti were made to "realize" after serious persuasive work that they themselves were indeed witches

which to me seems as an euphemism for "the Benandanti confessed under torture to being witches". If that is the case, the sentence should be rewritten, per WP:WORDS. → Adrian Lozano (talk) 23:32, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

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