Talk:Benevolent dictator for life

Contesting Deletion
"Benevolent Dictator For Life" is a well known term in the OSS development world. There is no reference for it inside Wikipedia, and the proposed article, even if short, sounds like a good startup for it.

Also, the proposed text has been taken from the Spanish version of the same page, so other languages should be checked in that case.


 * It was deleted via AfD a while ago, see Articles for deletion/Benevolent Dictator for Life (2nd nomination). I got the old version userfied to my user space, see User:FrankTobia/Benevolent Dictator for Life for the old version and what was wrong with it. I recommend improving the issues brought up in AfD to avoid such happenings in the future. I'll be around to help. -FrankTobia (talk) 15:27, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed it should stay, and it appears the main reason it was deleted (being Guido centric) has been resolved. Now, the question is, how much content from the former "Benevolent Dictator" article should be placed here? In other words, how much does the FL part of BDFL affect this article? Or will the aforementioned article come back to life too? It's unfortunate how these BD articles keep getting deleted... apparently by people unaware of the Open Source world. Philipolson (talk) 01:57, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The article became senseless
PhilKnight has been able to destroy the article, maybe for fun, indicating a reference to a Guido interview where he cited BDFL and the humorous way people called him in that way. That could have marked the beginning of the usage of this term, but today it has a completely different and well known meaning in the OSS world.

The original article pointed the meaning of the term, not facts that need to be cited, so there is no reason to simply delete it without any justification. I'm reverting the relevant part of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FredCK (talk • contribs) 13:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

More research
This is Guido speaking. A few months ago I found an email from 1995 in an old mailbox that I had saved since then, which was meeting notes from one of the first meetings of the Python Software Association (a precursor of the PSF). Nearly everyone present was given a jocular title, and mine was in full "First Interim benevolent Dictator for Life". Once I track this down again, can I post it on the wiki page or should I do something else first? I'm pretty sure that the titles were made up collectively there and that the term did *not* originate in a Monty Python skit. Most likely inventors of the term are Barry Warsaw or Ken Manheimer, who were both present at the meeting (I think) and have just thekind of mind to come up with such a term. I don't know how the term subsequently became popular -- perhaps it was used in early PSA mailings. Gvanrossum (talk) 04:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Guido, I recommend posting the email / thread somewhere else online, preferably somewhere that looks legitimate, so that we can use it as a reliable source in the article. The same goes for any commentary or insight you have into the term's history (like the above): if you could throw it onto a webpage somewhere (preferably with a legit, unchanging URL), then we could definitely use it to substantiate the article. -FrankTobia (talk) 06:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Will do. I've found the email.  I'll put it on my blog at Artima.com. Gvanrossum (talk) 14:32, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Posted to my [Artima blog]. Gvanrossum (talk) 16:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Removal of Jimmy Wales and Patrick Volkerding
I'm removing Jimmy Wales as Wikipedia BDFL because there is no reference from currently published material. Chealer (talk) 19:19, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm removing Patrick Volkerding as Slackware because there is no non-primary reference. Chealer (talk) 19:19, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It is acceptable to use primary sources to establish facts. The reliability of sources depends on who they are. In this case, the main site for the Slackware distro refers to its leader as a BDFL. You can accept this as reliable. Kyz (talk) 00:18, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The exception to use some primary sources is not dependent on the reliability of the author, it depends on the relation between the sourced statement and the author. In this case, trusting someone to tell how that person is called by people is not reliable.--Chealer (talk) 00:09, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Damned irritating since Pat has been BDFL longer than anybody else. Just proves that Wikipedia is a popularity contest. Language of the month trumps longest lived Linux distro. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.215.115.31 (talk) 17:14, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Slackware was created in 1993, Python was created in 1991. Guido is the original, as many sources agree. OrangeDog  (τ • ε) 09:29, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Linus Torvalds
Isn't he the BDFL for linux (that is the kernel of course) ? Misiu mp (talk) 12:12, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

second that, also it's fine to remove 'Dries' if this section does not get limited somehow then sooner or later every open source project leader will be mentioned here.

suggestion: limit it to operating systems and languages, since that's where the BDFL concept makes most sense.

jacques mattheij, no longer an active contributor due to one deletion too many

Steve Coast BDFL?
Are there more sources that Steve Coast is "sometimes referred to as Benevolent Dictator For Life" (except one time by himself)? What I could find is a humorous comment and one earlier mention on the mailing list. No offence, but I'd say "Founder and Chairman of the Openstreetmap Foundation" describes his position within the project much better. --Cebus (talk) 21:08, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Alexandre Julliard
I think Alexandre Julliard fits very well as "BDFL" for the Wine Project. FluXy (talk) 02:24, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. No opinion here about no caps for other words in the title. That would be a issue to be changed or discussed later. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:37, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Benevolent Dictator For Life → Benevolent Dictator for Life – "For" should not be capitalized. Naming_conventions_(capitalization) XP1 (talk) 07:15, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Why not un-caps the rest of it too? Like executive director it's not a proper name. – Pnm (talk) 17:20, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Larry Wall
I came to this article from the Larry Wall article and I am surprised he is not mentioned in the list. Python and PHP BDFL have got their place in the list, so why not the one of Perl? Being not very well informed about WP's policies, I leave the edit to someone more expecienced.78.128.196.3 (talk) 17:48, 27 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Larry Wall is now in the list. --Chealer (talk) 03:14, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Larry Wall is now in the list. --Chealer (talk) 03:14, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

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Remove Stephen Wolfram
The page specifically talks about BDFLs in terms of open source software and only a tiny fraction of the wolfram language is open source, so I don't think Stephen Wolfram really meets the criteria to be on the page. Thoughts? Boomanaiden154 (talk) 02:23, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with that, the term does not apply to proprietary software development Skjoole (talk) 17:36, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I have just removed Stephen Wolfram from the page. If anyone wants to question this decision, please add on to this thread. Boomanaiden154 (talk) 01:22, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

FFmpeg
Doesn't Michael Niedermayer of FFmpeg qualify for this list, too? The history of the project, where he stepped off as the leader in 2015 but remains the unchallenged authority, is IMHO an interesting twist for this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sasha.cohn (talk • contribs) 12:28, 9 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Have you got a specific third-part ref where he is specifically called BDFL? peterl (talk) 17:01, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Pros and Cons of BDFL
It might be nice to have some discussion of how and when BDFLs can be beneficial or detrimental to a particular project, with examples.


 * In this article, graydon, initiator of the Rust language, explains why he would not have been a good BDFL: 2406:3003:2073:3B6A:10AE:B544:6681:D4F6 (talk) 07:57, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Usage section
The entirety of this section is talking about a "not to be confused with" term. There's nothing regarding usage of "BDFL" at all. OrangeDog  (τ • ε) 09:32, 13 May 2024 (UTC)